.I'm not sure this has enough to do wiht trains, but I am curious...
It seems that "F" for cargo and "E" for freight isn't unique to EMDFord has their F150 truck, and the E150 passenger van.
F450 heavy truck and E450 shuttle van.
Much like EMD's F7 and E7, F9 and E9.
Coincidence, or is there a reason for this. I know EMD was connected to the automotive industry in a way.
The Beaverton, Fanno Creek & Bull Mountain Railroad
"Ruby Line Service"
Forgive me... I have just answered my own question. Nevermind! [:-)]
While "F" really did stand for "Freight" in the FT's designation, the "E" comes from "Eighteen Hundred Horsepower" which is what you got with two twelve-cylinder Winton EA engines, used in the first E-units. In the contemporary TA, built for Rock Island, the "T" stood for "Twelve Hundred Horspower", the output of a 16 cylinder 201-A.
I thought the F stood for 1500HP.
Designations got strange sometimes. UP 844 is an "FEF" class. That stands for "four eight four..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I am not quite sure how a Ford anything could affect EMD (which was a 'division' of rival GM, a company using a different scheme entirely to distinguish open-bed pickups from vans) or how either system would apply to the period in the 1930s that EMD developed the E and F conventions...
Or where a distinction between 'freight' and 'cargo' comes from, let alone has anything to do with a difference between F and E units.
The early E needed two prime movers (rcdrye knows these were 201A and then 567, not "EA" which was an early designation of E-unit) to make its 1800hp, therefore also needed six axles to handle the added weight and length, but only four of them needed to be motored. Most railroads would be fine with the V16 1350hp 'units' (and you should by now have seen the problem with 'F' being fifteen hundred; the drawbar FT being 2700hp but, as I recall, Santa Fe tinkering with some single cabs before the union issue over crews on MU locomotives erupted).
We have had some very detailed threads on this subject in the past.
Just to add to the confusion, consider the various Winton-powered switchers: S=600 hp, N=900 hp, C=cast underframe, W=welded underframe.
What confusion? It was Six and Nine, and I thought the common-sense designation of switchers by horsepower is where the Winton engine naming convention for EMDs actually got established...
E meant 1800 horsepower and F meant 1400 horsepower (1350 rounded up).
Strange,
Long thought E stood for the Eeeeeeeeeee! Railfans squealed when they first saw them.
(anyone buying this??)
LensCapOn(anyone buying this??)
That's not the noise I recall in the parody video when he sees the 'E unit'.
So no, I'm not buying it for a quarter.
LensCapOnLong thought E stood for the Eeeeeeeeeee! Railfans squealed when the first saw them.
Or, Eeeeeeeeeek! Depending on your view of those new fangled machines...
For your amusement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkswzYzS3M
tree68For your amusement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkswzYzS3M
Yes, but let's not forget this was a parody of a specific prior video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhYXNwvcl6A
and it makes less than no sense to think actual railfans often behave that way around E units, no matter how fine their horns may be...
OvermodYes, but let's not forget this was a parody of a specific prior video:
Yes, it was. For that matter, I understand the "foaming railfan" whose voice we hear was actually the general manager...
When I first saw the title, I thought it was asking about coupler knuckles.
Jeff
jeffhergert When I first saw the title, I thought it was asking about coupler knuckles. Jeff
Me too.
On that note, I have access to some preserved equipment with "D" knuckles. They are significantly smaller than anything in use today.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
tree68 I thought the F stood for 1500HP. Designations got strange sometimes. UP 844 is an "FEF" class. That stands for "four eight four..."
23 17 46 11
edblysard Steam has a little different classification that diesels…I think it is called the Whyte system, I may be wrong though on the name…
Steam has a little different classification that diesels…I think it is called the Whyte system, I may be wrong though on the name…
It is the Whyte system.
The funny part about the FEF moniker is that other railroads used what seemed like random letters (I'm sure that new classes got the next letter in line), so you ended up with a plethora of designations, even for the same wheel arrangements. Berkshires were A's, M's, S's, N's, K's, BA's, and BK's...
The Whyte system was first detailed by F.M Whyte of the New York Central and introduced in December 1900 by way of an editorial "The Confusion of Types" (in American Engineer and Railroad Journal, v.74 p.374). From the very beginning it works as simply and nonconfusingly ... for most American wheel arrangements ... as the editorial said it did; it was expanded (and partly conflated with the European UIC coding scheme) by Lionel Wiener in his book Articulated Locomotives (from which, among other things, Le Massena derived his somewhat infamous preference for using the plus (+) rather than the dash for a hinged connection between engines.
Class numbers representing a given wheel arrangement considerably predate Whyte coding, and the FEF example only represents the Whyte code for the class in the type number. Most class letters had nothing to do with the wheel arrangement (and of course the same letter on different railroads could mean very different things; cf. a T1a on CP vs. PRR)
And then of course we get into the whole clever idea (which predates Whyte, by the way) of distinguishing wheel arrangements the same sort of way we used to do elements: the innovator first using them being the source of the name. Hence we get 'Consolidation' (from the formation of the Lehigh Valley) or "Northern' (from Northern Pacific's first construction of a heavy Mountain with a two-axle trailing truck) or 'Santa Fe' (from ATSF's first construction of a real 2-10-2). But we also get weird results when 'priority' isn't established, such as the contretemps between 'Baltic' and 'Hudson' (the Milwaukee had the design first, and named it after two much earlier experimental locomotives in Europe; the NYC actually built and ran one first - the situation was resolved somewhat Solomonically by reserving 'Baltic' for engines with a pin-guided trailing truck) or all those 4-8-4s with different names.
SD70Dude jeffhergert When I first saw the title, I thought it was asking about coupler knuckles. Jeff Me too. On that note, I have access to some preserved equipment with "D" knuckles. They are significantly smaller than anything in use today.
In that regard who was the 'wingnut' that thought there needed to be a F type knuckle that wasn't compatible with the E type?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 LensCapOn Long thought E stood for the Eeeeeeeeeee! Railfans squealed when the first saw them. Or, Eeeeeeeeeek! Depending on your view of those new fangled machines... For your amusement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkswzYzS3M
LensCapOn Long thought E stood for the Eeeeeeeeeee! Railfans squealed when the first saw them.
Oh, I think it's wonderful to see such enthusiasum in one so young!
Oh, course, once he matures a bit he'll save all his excitement for steam locomotives! Anything else is wasted energy.
should I change the title of the post to clarify what I am talkign about.
The original post title was "the moderators will love me for this one" since the Ford lines have nothign to do wiht trains, but figured I didn't want to pick a fight with the forum moderators. I like this forum [:-)]
As to names to identify wheel arrangements, how about the Mikados which became MacArthurs--and, later, Mikados again? And the 4-8-4's that ran on the NC&SL were Dixies--with two subclasses, Yellow Jackets and Stripes.
And, I have ridden behind a Mogul (which was not a really large engine).
Johnny
KBCpresident should I change the title of the post to clarify what I am talkign about. The original post title was "the moderators will love me for this one" since the Ford lines have nothign to do wiht trains, but figured I didn't want to pick a fight with the forum moderators. I like this forum [:-)]
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BaltACDIn that regard who was the 'wingnut' that thought there needed to be a F type knuckle that wasn't compatible with the E type?
The same wingnut that puts lower shelf couplers on EVERYTHING?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann BaltACD In that regard who was the 'wingnut' that thought there needed to be a F type knuckle that wasn't compatible with the E type? The same wingnut that puts lower shelf couplers on EVERYTHING?
BaltACD In that regard who was the 'wingnut' that thought there needed to be a F type knuckle that wasn't compatible with the E type?
Don't forget the extra-short hoses with no slack adjustors or extensions.
Whoever designs these things must never have to actually work with them.
SD70DudeDon't forget the extra-short hoses with no slack adjustors or extensions. Whoever designs these things must never have to actually work with them.
I've invented new curse words with some of those.
What about the handbrakes with the knee-buster bars in front of them?
Of the anglecocks that are down underneath the airhose? I love having to be that close to the gladhands to turn air in.
My "favourite" handbrakes are the stemwinders without a release lever. Awkward to use, and you can never get them very tight. And to release them you often need a spike or chisel from the toolbox.
How about the angle cocks with a vent like the MR ones? Or when they hide it under the steps on locomotives.
KBCpresident Ford has their F150 truck, and the E150 passenger van.
Ford has their F150 truck, and the E150 passenger van.
"F" is for Ford as is the case for "C" being Chevrolet, "D" for Dodge and "J" for Jeep, won't talk about "K" being Chevy/GMC 4WD, though "W" for Dodge 4WD may come from powerWagon.
"E" is for Econoline.
I've run across several sources that state "E" was for Eighteen hundred in agreement with several others on this thread.
I've run across at leat one source that stated "FT" stood for Freight Thirteen hundred horsepower.
- Erik
The writer of this linked article says it was a model F originally. http://utahrails.net/loconotes/emc-ft.php
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