Trains.com

Tolls and Trains

6981 views
39 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,019 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, January 18, 2018 10:27 PM

ben
But, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives.

Track isn't the problem - congestion is.  I'm pretty sure virtually the entire route from Chicago to NYC/Boston is good for 79 MPH, and the locomotives are certainly capable of that.

Amtrak is a tenant on the entire route, so is at the mercy of its hosts (and the weather - which is frequently a problem this time of year).

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

ben
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 68 posts
Posted by ben on Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:34 PM

But, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,019 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:24 PM

While there are other taxes, much of the state tax on gasoline goes to highway maintenance.  However, in NY, f'rinstance, only 48% of the cost of roads is covered by that tax.  The rest comes from other sources, like income taxes, etc.

The New York State Thruway was supposed to be free of tolls by now, but it's not.  This is due in part to the NYS Barge Canal (Erie Canal) being placed under the Thruway Authority.

I could travel to Massachussets next week on surface roads, but going via the Thruway and MassPike will be quantifiably faster, and the tolls will really be worth not driving through every small town and city along the way.

I could probably take the train, but I'd now be at the mercy of Amtrak's Late Shore, and will need transportation once I get there.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

ben
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 68 posts
Posted by ben on Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:14 PM

BaltACD

 

 
ben
 
BaltACD
 
ben
Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll. 

Driving isn't 'free'!  You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.

To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead.  The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket.  After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth.  Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so.  After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months.  What a CROCK!

By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car!  That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike.  Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West. 

I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll.

 

So what you are actually saying it that Stockholm has a screwed up tax system trying to support one form of activity but still rewarding the activity they are trying to restrict.

The US is not Sweden and doesn't have their form of thought or their short distances and areas to cover with their policies.

 

 

No, what I am trying to say is that in Stockholm instead of subsidizing roads by making them toll-free and still charging for using trains. So, the United States can follow Sweden's Lead in fixing congestion in cities, like New York City, and Los Angeles by creating tolls if not using this on long-distance highway travel. It isn't possible to say that the US doesn't have their form of thought for many reasons. One, the Northeast and West Coast have similar forms of thought of Sweden,but also Sweden is a very diverse nation with some people who are very liberal and some who are more conservative. 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:02 PM

BaltACD
Driving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.

That is absolutely right.  Just because "freeways" are not tollways does not mean they are free.  The very first sentence of the linked artical sets a false premise.  If you build a road and pay for it with taxes, it would be double dipping to add tolls without reducing taxes correspondingly. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 18, 2018 7:18 PM

ben
 
BaltACD
 
ben
Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll. 

Driving isn't 'free'!  You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.

To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead.  The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket.  After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth.  Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so.  After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months.  What a CROCK!

By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car!  That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike.  Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West. 

I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll.

So what you are actually saying it that Stockholm has a screwed up tax system trying to support one form of activity but still rewarding the activity they are trying to restrict.

The US is not Sweden and doesn't have their form of thought or their short distances and areas to cover with their policies.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

ben
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 68 posts
Posted by ben on Thursday, January 18, 2018 6:35 PM

BaltACD

 

 
ben
Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.

 

Driving isn't 'free'!  You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.

To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead.  The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket.  After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth.  Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so.  After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months.  What a CROCK!

By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car!  That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike.  Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West.

 

 

I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 18, 2018 6:08 PM

ben
Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.

Driving isn't 'free'!  You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.

To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead.  The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket.  After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth.  Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so.  After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months.  What a CROCK!

By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car!  That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike.  Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

ben
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 68 posts
Posted by ben on Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:37 PM

Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:06 PM

No one (myself included) likes paying tolls, but they are a good way of exposing the true cost of road infrastructure. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

ben
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 68 posts
Tolls and Trains
Posted by ben on Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:00 PM

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/578865204/more-states-turning-to-toll-roads-to-raise-cash-for-infrastructure

 

This could help raise the ridership of both commuter and intercity rail.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy