https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/578865204/more-states-turning-to-toll-roads-to-raise-cash-for-infrastructure
This could help raise the ridership of both commuter and intercity rail.
No one (myself included) likes paying tolls, but they are a good way of exposing the true cost of road infrastructure.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.
benAlso, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.
Driving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.
To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead. The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket. After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth. Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so. After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months. What a CROCK!
By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car! That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike. Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD ben Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll. Driving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up. To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead. The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket. After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth. Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so. After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months. What a CROCK! By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car! That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike. Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West.
ben Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll.
I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll.
ben BaltACD ben Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll. Driving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up. To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead. The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket. After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth. Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so. After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months. What a CROCK! By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car! That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike. Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West. I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll.
So what you are actually saying it that Stockholm has a screwed up tax system trying to support one form of activity but still rewarding the activity they are trying to restrict.
The US is not Sweden and doesn't have their form of thought or their short distances and areas to cover with their policies.
BaltACDDriving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up.
That is absolutely right. Just because "freeways" are not tollways does not mean they are free. The very first sentence of the linked artical sets a false premise. If you build a road and pay for it with taxes, it would be double dipping to add tolls without reducing taxes correspondingly.
BaltACD ben BaltACD ben Also, not paying tolls is incentivising driving. It costs lots of money to create roads and maintain them, but it's free. We have to pay for train fares. If all highways had tolls then people would choose not to use them and instead go by other means, for example, public transportation or car pooling. Another option could be to use this money that is gained from tolls ot create HSR infrastructure so that we can get the HSR service that we want in the United States. Lastly, if all highways require a toll be paid it could be that individuals who drive Electric Vehicles can go for free, or a reduced toll. Driving isn't 'free'! You pay tolls (gas taxes - federal, state & local) every time you stop at a gas station and fill up. To drive to Homestead for racing I use the Florida Turnpike from Jupiter to Homestead. The first 30-40 mile are toll by ticket (if you don't have the transponder based Sun Pass) - stop at a toll booth and pick up a machine distributed toll ticket. After that segment you pay the toll taker at a toll booth. Another 15 miles or so further on you stop at a toll booth and pay a toll taker a set amount, and this gets repeated in another 15 miles or so. After the 2nd set amount toll you go into 'toll by plate' territory where your license plate is read by a scanner and you get billed in a couple of months. What a CROCK! By the same token I took the PA Turnpike last year - Breezewood to the Ohio line - 160 miles $18.50 for a single car! That will be my last use of the PA Turnpike. Hello I-68, I-79 and I-70 to go to Ohio and West. I think that if we want to experience major growth in Amtrak Ridership we should toll all highways because they are expensive to maintain. Also, gasoline doesn't count as a toll because although its taxed so are watermelons. Plus, if you drive an electric car you don't have to buy gasoline so you aren't paying the tax. For example, in Stockholm they put toll in place for entering the downtown islands of the city. This made people switch over to the commuter rail to enter the city more than the highway because this expensive toll was put in place so that people felt incentivised not to take the highway, but instead public transit. Also, if you have an electric vehicle you don't have to pay the toll. So what you are actually saying it that Stockholm has a screwed up tax system trying to support one form of activity but still rewarding the activity they are trying to restrict. The US is not Sweden and doesn't have their form of thought or their short distances and areas to cover with their policies.
No, what I am trying to say is that in Stockholm instead of subsidizing roads by making them toll-free and still charging for using trains. So, the United States can follow Sweden's Lead in fixing congestion in cities, like New York City, and Los Angeles by creating tolls if not using this on long-distance highway travel. It isn't possible to say that the US doesn't have their form of thought for many reasons. One, the Northeast and West Coast have similar forms of thought of Sweden,but also Sweden is a very diverse nation with some people who are very liberal and some who are more conservative.
While there are other taxes, much of the state tax on gasoline goes to highway maintenance. However, in NY, f'rinstance, only 48% of the cost of roads is covered by that tax. The rest comes from other sources, like income taxes, etc.
The New York State Thruway was supposed to be free of tolls by now, but it's not. This is due in part to the NYS Barge Canal (Erie Canal) being placed under the Thruway Authority.
I could travel to Massachussets next week on surface roads, but going via the Thruway and MassPike will be quantifiably faster, and the tolls will really be worth not driving through every small town and city along the way.
I could probably take the train, but I'd now be at the mercy of Amtrak's Late Shore, and will need transportation once I get there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
But, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives.
benBut, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives.
Track isn't the problem - congestion is. I'm pretty sure virtually the entire route from Chicago to NYC/Boston is good for 79 MPH, and the locomotives are certainly capable of that.
Amtrak is a tenant on the entire route, so is at the mercy of its hosts (and the weather - which is frequently a problem this time of year).
I just filed the 4th quarter calander year IFTA statement for my boss For that quarter our 250 trucks paid into the US Highway trust fund right at 2.9 million miles for all the miles driven for everystate we covered. I am not going to break it out per state as 1 it would drive even a bean counter nuts and 2 the report is about 200 pages long. That is just our tanker side and dry van sides and we are one carrier. Last year the average OTR truck paid in on average close to 55 grand in fuel and highway usage taxes of all kinds. That is per truck. Were does all that money go. It pays state DOT officals salaries buys road salt pays for other items. By the time they want to do road repairs they have about between 20 and 30 cents left out of each dollar they started with. A semi that has to take the PA pike across it pays almost 300 bucks almost a buck a mile. Yeah we get hosed. Even with ezpass it is still almost 250 bucks not much of a savings. Yet the states still want to suck more from us.
I agree, that the freeways are not free. But I doubt that the gasoline taxes alone would be enough to build and maintain all roads.
If Wiki is right the average gasoline fuel tax in the USA is about $0.50/gal. In Germany this tax is $3.04/gal. 50% ($1.52/gal) were intended for road building and maintanance. These 50% would be needed to keep our infrastructure intact but only 20% are used for roads and they show.
So why reduce taxes when you need the tolls to cover the costs?
The Stockholm congestion charge was introduced in 2006 to reduce congestion by 10 - 20 per cent and better the air quality. The reached a reduction of 30%.
London (UK) is another example.
As Stockholm already had a functioning public transit system the spending of the charge is not limited.Regards, Volker
To introduce such a charge you need to have functioning public transit.
Regards, Volker
Shadow the Cats owner I just filed the 4th quarter calander year IFTA statement for my boss For that quarter our 250 trucks paid into the US Highway trust fund right at 2.9 million miles for all the miles driven for everystate we covered. I am not going to break it out per state as 1 it would drive even a bean counter nuts and 2 the report is about 200 pages long. That is just our tanker side and dry van sides and we are one carrier. Last year the average OTR truck paid in on average close to 55 grand in fuel and highway usage taxes of all kinds. That is per truck. Were does all that money go. It pays state DOT officals salaries buys road salt pays for other items. By the time they want to do road repairs they have about between 20 and 30 cents left out of each dollar they started with. A semi that has to take the PA pike across it pays almost 300 bucks almost a buck a mile. Yeah we get hosed. Even with ezpass it is still almost 250 bucks not much of a savings. Yet the states still want to suck more from us.
The one thing that I think ,is the attention of citizens, and taxpayers are drawn away from by the political class is: The government does not make money, it may print it, but it does not make money; it TAKES it away from the citizens.
For that 'taxation'; the government provides for its citizens: *A Country with boarders. *Safety for the citizenry within that Country. *Also government will provide certain 'enhancements for the lives of those citizens and their quality of lifestyles'.
Ben's point of the introduction of Sweden into the mix is somewhat like the old 'arguments of Apples and Oranges', IMHO. Beyone both being fruits, there the examples begin seperate.
Originally, when conceived the Interstate System (originally, the 'Interstate and Defense Highway Act' during the Eisenhower Admin. ). Was incorporated into earlier 'Highway Acts' which had created the system referred to as Freeways, post WWII. The Interstate and Defense Highway System was originally designed to US Military Transport, loadings, and clearance specifications. As the individual States stepped in, and picked up some expenses, those specifications were changed for any number of reasons; {costs of land, and construction methods, and marerials(?)}as well as," local political expediencies", [ie: Connecticut mandated a lower bridge clearance, to clearances very close to the minimum needed 13' 6"(?).]
Point is, Freeways morphed into Interstate Highways, and where the political process made sense, Toll Roads. [Remember, the original PA Turnpike followed a railroad ROW across Pa.;cost effective at the time(?) ]. Where they were required, bridges, expensive bridges(?) to link segments of lines of travel needed to be built. [ie: The Geo. Washington Bridge[among others] at NYC, Deleware Twin Bridges on I-95, just to name a couple] Once built, those items of infrastructure had to be maintained.]
In Europe as compared to this country, in many cases a component that must be considered is distance. There population centers are closer together, which lends itself to Mass Transit means of Transport.
When Mass Tranist is Not Available or Inconvenient, for the working and traveling public; The only alternative are Privately Owned Vehicles.; which become a necessity, and not just a luxury.
In this country, things are consiberably spread out... I would rely on someone who is more recently familiar with the tolls on roads, and bridges to give these numbers....I think that average person would be stunned at the costs, including tolls, fuel, and other expenses for commercial vehicles.
Privately Owned Vehicles, woud pay tolls at a considerably reduced rate (generally by number of axles on the ground.) then further expenced by 'upkeep' of the vehicle, and fuel at local costs. [BaltACD could possibly, tell you his costs for travel, pulling a trailer with a car up on it].
In This Country H.S.R and Commuter Trains seem to make sense only between large population centers, or city pairs that make sense, and have heavy travel back and forth(?) The Northeast Corridor is an example of one that works. California is another area that seems to make sense. Dallas/Ft.Worth,Tx to Houston would seem to make sense. Charlotte/ Atlanta would possibly make sense.(?)
samfp1943In Europe as compared to this country, in many cases a component that must be considered is distance. There population centers are closer together, which lends itself to Mass Transit means of Transport.
I agree. The aim of HSR here in Germany is to reduce the travelling time so that the train gets competitive with air transportation. In most cases it is faster than traveling by car even considering that the main station is not your final destination.
Public transit within population centers could already be present in America but the first beginnings were shut down with a few exceptions. Introducing it now is difficult and very cost intensive.
What a functioning public transit system can achive shows Hamburg, my town of birth. Hamburg started the first subway line in 1912. The public transit system grew steadily and is still growing. In 2017 this system transported 455 Mio passengers with 1.8 Mio inhabitants.Regards, Volker
alphas2. The average passenger vehicle pays close to the road damage it causes. They simply aren't heavy enough to cause that much damage.
The impact of axle on the road rises with the fourth power of the axle load. (Generalized Fourth Power Law)
For a 1.5 t car and a four axle 35 t truck this means that approximately 37,000 cars produce the same damage as one 35 t truck.Regards, Volker
VOLKER LANDWEHRPublic transit within population centers could already be present in America but the first beginnings were shut down with a few exceptions. Introducing it now is difficult and very cost intensive.
In my mind, this is one reason passenger rail faces an uphill battle - once you get there, how do you go the "last mile?" In urban areas, this is less of a problem, as many do have at least some level of public transportation, as well as limos and taxis. And the growth of Uber, Lyfft, etc, makes the "last mile" less of an impediment.
But if you're headed for someplace "out in the country," those options may not be available, and unless you have some form of transportation available at your destination (ie, you're visiting family and they'll be schlepping you around), just driving may be far more appealing.
Shadow the Cats: Indeed large dollar amounts when grossed up, but would it be possible to get a rough cost per mile by dividing the total fuel and usage taxes by the total miles driven by your fleet. Doesn't need to be exact, or separated by state, but it will at least give us an order of magnitude number.
Thanks, John
VOLKER LANDWEHRThe impact of axle on the road rises with the fourth power of the axle load.
If you can, I'd like you to produce a somewhat more specialized metric that includes some of the acceleration data for modern-car tire-patch-to-pavement impact force (via the suspension) compared to various kinds of truck suspension (with tires pumped up past 80psi and often with very hard metal springing and perhaps insufficient rebound damping at part load).
Specifically: is there a measurable 'correction constant' for long-travel vertical controlled compliance in truck suspensions that mitigates at least part of the practical effect at the pavement, even for higher nominal loaded weight? Are there unfiltered data on things like rebound peak impact (as there are for steel railroad-wheel impacts)?
For last quarter for all miles my boss paid on average for 8.125 million miles run an average of 35 cents a mile in Fuel taxes alone. That is what the math came out to for us. Then throw in our insurance costs wages for the company equipment payments then we bought 50 more units effective 1st of this year when we merged in those smaller carriers with us.
You wonder why carriers are screaming for more cash the government keeps demanding more from us. With the new ELD mandate just in the last month capacity dropped 15% from lost time at shippers and recievers. Then throw in long time drivers that hung it up at the first of the year due to the ELD mandate also. I personally know of 30 around here all owner ops with their own carrier authority that Jan 1st all of them said screw this and started drawing on SS and their 401K's they have been working on for years. These are drivers with 30-40 years behind the wheel quitting.
Our contact patch per normal width tire is 10 inches square or 100 square inches in size of rubber on the ground with 18 it comes out to 1800 sq inches of rubber just over 44 pounds a square inch of pressure. Most roads are built to 500 PSI if asphalt and 4000 PSI if concrete. Sorry we have paved areas in our lots and I see the contracts for those. The concrete is used for landing gear pads.
Also most of the road damage isn't caused by OTR trucks it is caused by how roads are built here in America aka cheapest bid wins. If they would use better materials the roads would last longer. Instead they use the cheapest crap they can and they break down. Near me is the test section for what became the Interstates. The US Army Corp of Engineers for 2 years ran 5 ton trucks towing trailers over it nonstop. The sections are made from various grades of materials. 60 years later the highest grade stuff even after all the winters it has been exposed to and after 2 years of torture testing still looks brand new.
The Generalized Fourth Power Rule is a rule of thumb.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/tswstudy/TSWwp3.pdf
In the above article I found a reference to this publication: Rakheja S. and J. Woodrooffe, "Role of Suspension Damping in Enhancement of Road Friendliness of Heavy Vehicles,"
This is the result of a Google search: https://trid.trb.org/view/576272
I don't have access.Regards, Volker
Shadow the Cats ownerAlso most of the road damage isn't caused by OTR trucks it is caused by how roads are built here in America aka cheapest bid wins. If they would use better materials the roads would last longer.
You should be honest, the OTR trucks are destroying the roads. That the trucks got ever heavier accelerated the process. Most highways were built when trucks were a lot lighter.
No question, you can build roads better suited for today's trucks. But you need more than just better materials you need a completely different pavement structure from the subgrade up.
And then there are still the existing roads.Regards, Volker
Edit: And someone would have to pay for better roads and quite possibly it might be the trucking industry.
VOLKER LANDWEHR Shadow the Cats owner Also most of the road damage isn't caused by OTR trucks it is caused by how roads are built here in America aka cheapest bid wins. If they would use better materials the roads would last longer. You should be honest, the OTR trucks are destroying the roads. That the trucks got ever heavier accelerated the process. Most highways were built when trucks were a lot lighter. No question, you can build roads better suited for today's trucks. But you need more than just better materials you need a completely different pavement structure from the subgrade up. And then there are still the existing roads.Regards, Volker
Shadow the Cats owner Also most of the road damage isn't caused by OTR trucks it is caused by how roads are built here in America aka cheapest bid wins. If they would use better materials the roads would last longer.
American roads, built under the Interstate authorization, were built to fail as they were built to a 50 year standard of life expectancy. The reality is that today the earliest Interstate's are now in their 60's and it won't be all that long unitl most all of the Interstate system is exceeding 50.
The building of the Interstate system meshed with the increasing ability of Engineers to determine life expendancy of materials and processes used in the construction of many things. In earlier times, things were built to last - overbuilt in the view of modern engineers. Things constructed after WW II all have a designed life expectancy. In regard to Interstate highways the increasing weight and volume of OTR trucking increases the wear and tear upon the roads that they operate over.
VOLKER LANDWEHRAnd someone would have to pay for better roads and quite possibly it might be the trucking industry
Russell
We make up just about 13 percent of all vechiles nationwide but last year paid in over 55% of all fuel taxes into the Highway trust fund that it got. We pay on average 4 to 5 times the fuel and road taxes a normal car would pay. Yet all we hear from people is make them pay more and more. You want us to pay more then fine expect your items in the store to start to cost more as we can no longer absorb the costs.
Volkner I live in Illinois and I have seen what a freeze thaw cycle can do to a roadway. We have a road that gets no trucks on it at all they repaved it 2 years ago. Last spring it had a pot hole 3 feet across and 4 inches deep in the sucker.
Shadow the Cats ownerWe make up just about 13 percent of all vechiles nationwide but last year paid in over 55% of all fuel taxes into the Highway trust fund that it got.
Please re-read "alphas" post about road damage above. I just tried to supplement it with some numbers.
Shadow the Cats ownerWe pay on average 4 to 5 times the fuel and road taxes a normal car would pay. Yet all we hear from people is make them pay more and more. You want us to pay more then fine expect your items in the store to start to cost more as we can no longer absorb the costs.
As German I'm out of the finance question. But there are not that many alternatives.
Shadow the Cats ownerVolkner I live in Illinois and I have seen what a freeze thaw cycle can do to a roadway.
With a predamage freezing water would not lead to further damage. It has to somehow get into cracks and cravices to destroy the surface by expansion.
Shadow the Cats ownerWe have a road that gets no trucks on it at all they repaved it 2 years ago.
We have these roads too. Not all roads are built equal. For less loads the road structure is built less sturdy. The road I think of is closed for all trucks of 3.5 tons and more. But as it is a shortcut there are possibly 10 trucks a day on that road. With an unsuitible road structure damages are predictable.Regards, Volker
The NYS Thruway has been going through a complete rebuilding process, from what I've seen. Everything goes, the subroadbed gets reworked, and an entirely new road is built on top of that.
The Thruway is by far the busiest limited access highway in upstate NY. I-81 can be busy, but not as consistently as I-90. The Northway is pretty well used, but I haven't been on it in years.
In many cases, though, I think the interstates still have as their basic surface the concrete that was poured back in the beginning. Occasionally the paving will be ground back down to that concrete, but otherwise ongoing maintenance consists of recapping with asphalt.
tree68 ben But, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives. Track isn't the problem - congestion is. I'm pretty sure virtually the entire route from Chicago to NYC/Boston is good for 79 MPH, and the locomotives are certainly capable of that. Amtrak is a tenant on the entire route, so is at the mercy of its hosts (and the weather - which is frequently a problem this time of year).
ben But, even 25% of people going that route who were going to go by car went by train Amtrak would get more money and would be able to fix the portion of track which causes the Lake Shore Limited to be so delayed and upgrade large portions of track and purchase higher speed locomotives.
Between Springield, Ma and Worcester, Ma there is very poor track. In other locations with the money that they receive they could add a third track to ease congestion.
samfp1943 Shadow the Cats owner I just filed the 4th quarter calander year IFTA statement for my boss For that quarter our 250 trucks paid into the US Highway trust fund right at 2.9 million miles for all the miles driven for everystate we covered. I am not going to break it out per state as 1 it would drive even a bean counter nuts and 2 the report is about 200 pages long. That is just our tanker side and dry van sides and we are one carrier. Last year the average OTR truck paid in on average close to 55 grand in fuel and highway usage taxes of all kinds. That is per truck. Were does all that money go. It pays state DOT officals salaries buys road salt pays for other items. By the time they want to do road repairs they have about between 20 and 30 cents left out of each dollar they started with. A semi that has to take the PA pike across it pays almost 300 bucks almost a buck a mile. Yeah we get hosed. Even with ezpass it is still almost 250 bucks not much of a savings. Yet the states still want to suck more from us. First of all, my position is with Shadow's owner; I am empathetic, because of my years spent in the trucking game. The emphasis' in her statement were placed[by me] on several items of reporting that have been present for quite a few years for management of trucking companies to comply with. The main changes are that the amounts of money required for the 'taxes' have gone up, and up, for each tax cycle. The one thing that I think ,is the attention of citizens, and taxpayers are drawn away from by the political class is: The government does not make money, it may print it, but it does not make money; it TAKES it away from the citizens. For that 'taxation'; the government provides for its citizens: *A Country with boarders. *Safety for the citizenry within that Country. *Also government will provide certain 'enhancements for the lives of those citizens and their quality of lifestyles'. Ben's point of the introduction of Sweden into the mix is somewhat like the old 'arguments of Apples and Oranges', IMHO. Beyone both being fruits, there the examples begin seperate. Originally, when conceived the Interstate System (originally, the 'Interstate and Defense Highway Act' during the Eisenhower Admin. ). Was incorporated into earlier 'Highway Acts' which had created the system referred to as Freeways, post WWII. The Interstate and Defense Highway System was originally designed to US Military Transport, loadings, and clearance specifications. As the individual States stepped in, and picked up some expenses, those specifications were changed for any number of reasons; {costs of land, and construction methods, and marerials(?)}as well as," local political expediencies", [ie: Connecticut mandated a lower bridge clearance, to clearances very close to the minimum needed 13' 6"(?).] Point is, Freeways morphed into Interstate Highways, and where the political process made sense, Toll Roads. [Remember, the original PA Turnpike followed a railroad ROW across Pa.;cost effective at the time(?) ]. Where they were required, bridges, expensive bridges(?) to link segments of lines of travel needed to be built. [ie: The Geo. Washington Bridge[among others] at NYC, Deleware Twin Bridges on I-95, just to name a couple] Once built, those items of infrastructure had to be maintained.] In Europe as compared to this country, in many cases a component that must be considered is distance. There population centers are closer together, which lends itself to Mass Transit means of Transport. When Mass Tranist is Not Available or Inconvenient, for the working and traveling public; The only alternative are Privately Owned Vehicles.; which become a necessity, and not just a luxury. In this country, things are consiberably spread out... I would rely on someone who is more recently familiar with the tolls on roads, and bridges to give these numbers....I think that average person would be stunned at the costs, including tolls, fuel, and other expenses for commercial vehicles. Privately Owned Vehicles, woud pay tolls at a considerably reduced rate (generally by number of axles on the ground.) then further expenced by 'upkeep' of the vehicle, and fuel at local costs. [BaltACD could possibly, tell you his costs for travel, pulling a trailer with a car up on it]. In This Country H.S.R and Commuter Trains seem to make sense only between large population centers, or city pairs that make sense, and have heavy travel back and forth(?) The Northeast Corridor is an example of one that works. California is another area that seems to make sense. Dallas/Ft.Worth,Tx to Houston would seem to make sense. Charlotte/ Atlanta would possibly make sense.(?)
First of all, my position is with Shadow's owner; I am empathetic, because of my years spent in the trucking game. The emphasis' in her statement were placed[by me] on several items of reporting that have been present for quite a few years for management of trucking companies to comply with. The main changes are that the amounts of money required for the 'taxes' have gone up, and up, for each tax cycle.
There are plenty of corridors which will work with HSR or other Public Transit options. We just need to provide the infrastructure and the way to do this is by making extra revenue in the government, either by tolls or gasoline tax.
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