Manned Helpers Back on Donner Pass.

[Anonymous]

farmer03,

Looks like your question on DPUs has been answered. I see that in the Aug. 2001 issue of Trains, Helpers were the focus of that issue. Think I might order a back issue.

Also, since you passed through this area on I-80, the location of those photos I took, were just east of the CHP weigh station. Do you remember that stretch of road?

SP9033

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

After rereading your quote a couple of times, the answer would be yes...the dynamics can be varied, like the throttle positions or notches...depending on how much dynamic braking is needed, the engineer can vary the amount of dynamic braking effort by whatever position he places the dynamic lever in...... as the engineer increases dynamic braking effort, the fans will spin faster to release the heat generated in the dynamic brake grids. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

yeah, it is still a major main line. I don't think they send stacks over it, but everything else can.
Brad

[Anonymous]

hmm...for some reason i didn't think donner pass was used all that much anymore. learn something new every day!

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

I don't know exactly how they work as far as the range question, but I have been trackside with my scanner on, as one of these heavier westbounds go by, and the head-end calls the rear end asking for dynamic, and then, if the rear of the train with the helpers happen to go by my vantage point during this conversation, you'll hear the dynamic brake fans kick-in and rev up, as the dynamics kick-in...The older SD40-2's that are used in the Altoona area,as helpers with their louder dynamic brake fans make the process quite audible. The train might already have its rear helper in dynamic when the helper gets the call from the headend asking for more, but I've also seen rear helpers pass me by, with no dynamic noise at all, and then kick it in, The East Slope, heading out of Gallitzin, especially on the Slide, has a steeper average grade than the West Slope, and freight trains going down the Slide are usually limited to 10-12 mph for a segment..I have watched engines in full dynamic on both ends of the train descend this section just East of the Gallitzin Tunnels. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Very nice. My own knowledge of Donner is from History and driving a semi thru there from Reno down to the Coast when needed.

One of the things I dont understand about modern helpers is how does the rear engines know how much "Shove" to apply to the train? Do they recieve data from the lead units? With those long cars that train would be very long indeed.

Are you talking about remote helpers or manned in this instance? If remote, doesn't the head end engineer also control the rear engines? If manned, the rear helper engineer usually watches his amp guage to see how much throttle to apply....if his ampmeter suddenly goes up, usually means headend is throttling down for some reason, perhaps a more restrictive signal, or losing an engine on the head end. At least on the NS Main through Altoona, Pa, the rear helper Engineer watches the amp gauge, and also relies on radio communication with the head end....such as when a more restrictive signal is up ahead, the head-end will call the rear and tell them to lay back for a restricting, or stop signal up ahead... A conversation might go like this on the NS Main..... ' NS 10N Engine 9754 to the rear helper 3342, we've got a restricting up here at MO' so the helper will throttle down until he hears anything different from the head-end. The crews also communicate on downgrades for use of dynamics..... A scenario would be a Westbound general manifest at 45MPH heading downgrade through Lilly, Pa. ' NS 13G 2601 to the rear helper 3374, can you give me some dynamic?" " 3374 to the 13G, thats a Roger, going into dynamic now" let me know if you need any more...." So, radio, and 'seat of the pants' is primarily how a manned rear helper operates. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

Very nice. My own knowledge of Donner is from History and driving a semi thru there from Reno down to the Coast when needed.

One of the things I dont understand about modern helpers is how does the rear engines know how much "Shove" to apply to the train? Do they recieve data from the lead units? With those long cars that train would be very long indeed.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Donner Pass is one of the toughest in the nation especially in winter.. That picture sure is a good one! I personally believe every helper should be manned. Computers are nice but sometimes cannot exceed the judgement of a human.

HighIron2003ar,

Here are links to a 4 photo series of that train and the helpers at Boca. One of the locos in the helper consist is an unpatched SP unit, although its a SD45 car body its one of the MK rebuilds called a SD40M-2.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88110

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88111

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88112

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88113

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar

how long has it been since the DPU took over Donner Pass
kevin

kevin,

This is something I should know, but I don't. It seems to me it was sort of a gradual thing that began about 3 or 4 years ago, and after about six months it was all DPUs. Maybe someone else has exact dates on this.

In the nineties, Donner many times would have three helpers working the "hill," two Colfax Helpers and one Truckee Helper. Not to sure about the Colfax helpers but the Truckee Helper would be added to a train between Lawton, NV (just west of Reno) and Truckee, CA depending on need, it would pu***o Norden then head back east light. On occasion, if there was a problem with train braking the Truckee Helper would continue west and assist a train down the "hill" to Colfax. Same with the Colfax Helpers.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by farmer03

i've always wondered if/how much Donner Pass is used these days... what kind of traffic and frequency is there...?

farmer03,

Seems I remember John Bromley, the UP PR guy, state that it averaged about 17 to 18 on Donner in 24 hours and 19 to 20 on the Feather River route. More on some days less on others.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

i've always wondered if/how much Donner Pass is used these days... what kind of traffic and frequency is there...?

[Anonymous]

HighIron2003ar,

Yes, that is what I also think about manned helpers.

SP9033

[oskar]

how long has it been since the DPU took over Donner Pass




kevin

[Anonymous]

Donner Pass is one of the toughest in the nation especially in winter.. That picture sure is a good one! I personally believe every helper should be manned. Computers are nice but sometimes cannot exceed the judgement of a human.

[Anonymous]

That was quick.

[Anonymous]

As I understand it, Union Pacific opened the FRC route Monday afternoon. The first train operated past the slide was a grain train. I'm sure there is much more work to been done at the slide, but traffic is moving through the Feather River Canyon and the manned helpers are now gone from Donner. Its back to DPUs.

SP9033

[daveklepper]

I hope the traffic is moving smoothly with few delays.

[Anonymous]

It was a real joy seeing manned helpers back on UP's "Overland Route" working Donner Pass. Due to a slide in the Feather River Canyon Union Pacific rerouted its FRC traffic via Donner Pass. With this heavier than normal traffic on Donner, the railroad reinstituted manned helpers.

Sunday I had a few hours to spend railfanning, found this westman at Boca, California about to get some help.



SP9033