Trains.com

E. Hunter Harrison takes a medical leave from CSX

6402 views
47 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, December 17, 2017 2:10 AM

E. Hunter Harrison died tonight.   Heard on midnight news. (Pacific Time)

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 16, 2017 7:58 PM

JPS1

"Corporations the size of CSX adhere to Trumps pronouncement before the election process 'Only dummies pay taxes'.  35% of nothing is the same as 21% of nothing."

CSX must be pretty dumb.  In 2016 CSX paid $540 million in federal income taxes and $82 million in state and/or foreign income taxes.  Total income tax expense was $1,027,000 of which $405 million was deferred.

As I said previously, most if not all of CSX's tax burden is ultimately paid by its customers.

Throughout the supply chain that is you and I and the rest of the thousandaires with everything we buy or use and any service we avail ourselves of.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 6:10 PM

"Corporations the size of CSX adhere to Trumps pronouncement before the election process 'Only dummies pay taxes'.  35% of nothing is the same as 21% of nothing."

CSX must be pretty dumb.  In 2016 CSX paid $540 million in federal income taxes and $82 million in state and/or foreign income taxes.  Total income tax expense was $1,027,000 of which $405 million was deferred.

As I said previously, most if not all of CSX's tax burden is ultimately paid by its customers.

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 16, 2017 5:55 PM

JPS1
 

["Two key items in the Tax Bill before Congress (IF it passes) will benefit railroads, and should also impact the stock market overall:

1. Corporate tax rate reduced from 35% down to 21%. (Corporations will be paying 40% less taxes on their Net Income Before Taxes.)"]

The marginal corporate tax rate is being reduced from 35 percent to 21 percent.  The true impact on a corporation’s tax liability will be the difference between the new rates and its effective tax rate.  The spread is likely to change.  Most effective corporate tax rates (what the corporation actually pays in corporate income taxes) are substantially below the marginal rates.

A little discussed issue is the impact of the change in the corporate tax rates on any deferred tax credits being carried on the company's books.  As reported by Reuters, Citibank and Bank of America, as examples, are likely to take a serious hit to net income because of adjustments to their deferred tax credits. 

The proposed change in the corporate tax rate is a step in the right direction, but it does not go far enough.  If I were King for a Day, I would eliminate all corporate taxes.  Corporations don't pay taxes; they are usually passed through to their customers, although sometimes the shareholders and workers may have to absorb some of them

Corporations the size of CSX adhere to Trumps pronouncement before the election process 'Only dummies pay taxes'.  35% of nothing is the same as 21% of nothing.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 5:42 PM

 

["Two key items in the Tax Bill before Congress (IF it passes) will benefit railroads, and should also impact the stock market overall:

1. Corporate tax rate reduced from 35% down to 21%. (Corporations will be paying 40% less taxes on their Net Income Before Taxes.)"]

The marginal corporate tax rate is being reduced from 35 percent to 21 percent.  The true impact on a corporation’s tax liability will be the difference between the new rates and its effective tax rate.  The spread is likely to change.  Most effective corporate tax rates (what the corporation actually pays in corporate income taxes) are substantially below the marginal rates.

A little discussed issue is the impact of the change in the corporate tax rates on any deferred tax credits being carried on the company's books.  As reported by Reuters, Citibank and Bank of America, as examples, are likely to take a serious hit to net income because of adjustments to their deferred tax credits. 

The proposed change in the corporate tax rate is a step in the right direction, but it does not go far enough.  If I were King for a Day, I would eliminate all corporate taxes.  Corporations don't pay taxes; they are usually passed through to their customers, although sometimes the shareholders and workers may have to absorb some of them

 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Canada
  • 205 posts
Posted by CliqueofOne on Saturday, December 16, 2017 4:58 PM

sniff!

Yes, "GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!"

Now Hillbilly Harrison will forever be buried in MUD.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 16, 2017 3:43 PM

The personification of Satan - good ridence!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • 115 posts
Posted by cprtrain on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:59 PM

kgbw49

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Hunter Harrison has passed away.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/csx-ceo-hunter-harrison-has-died-1513453754

 

   He ruined the lives of thousands. He was not a good man.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:51 PM

Whoa! Wholeee Moleee again. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:47 PM

With his leave just being announced before he croaked, it makes you wonder how long they were covering up his true condition.  Maybe Sanborn and others wouldn't have resigned if they knew that they only had to put up with him for another month.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:41 PM

Saturnalia
 
Firelock76

Uh, Hunter baby, I'm not for you or against you, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me the "Big Division Superintendant In The Sky" is tapping you on the shoulder and telling you to call it a day.

Go to your horse farm and enjoy what time you have left. 

 

 

 

You called it! This publication is now reporting his passing. 

 

Wow.  So why can't I pick any winning lottery numbers?

BC2
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 39 posts
Posted by BC2 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:26 PM

With EHH's passing I doubt you will see a complete impementation of his vision. I don't care how much Foote believes in PSR, he is not Harrison. Looking in from the outside, it appears EHH got much done with his charisma and dogheaded determination. You don't replace that without losing a bit. CSX's stock will now normalize relatively quickly. It may not go back to the 20's before the EHH talk started, but I don't see it staying in the 50's. My guess is upper 30's to low 40's.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:03 PM

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Hunter Harrison has passed away.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/csx-ceo-hunter-harrison-has-died-1513453754

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • 185 posts
Posted by Saturnalia on Saturday, December 16, 2017 1:42 PM

Firelock76

Uh, Hunter baby, I'm not for you or against you, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me the "Big Division Superintendant In The Sky" is tapping you on the shoulder and telling you to call it a day.

Go to your horse farm and enjoy what time you have left. 

 

You called it! This publication is now reporting his passing. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 16, 2017 12:53 PM

Normally - CSX issues a daily compendium of news articles where CSX is involved in one way or another.  I noticed that nothing was published for 12/14 and 12/15.  Hmmmmmmm?

https://csx.newsweaver.com/csxdailynews/

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:43 AM

Uh, Hunter baby, I'm not for you or against you, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me the "Big Division Superintendant In The Sky" is tapping you on the shoulder and telling you to call it a day.

Go to your horse farm and enjoy what time you have left. 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 9:52 AM

Two key items in the Tax Bill before Congress (IF it passes) will benefit railroads, and should also impact the stock market overall:

1. Corporate tax rate reduced from 35% down to 21%. (Corporations will be paying 40% less taxes on their Net Income Before Taxes.)

2. Immediate expensing of new investment purchases (capital investment) for tax purposes for five years, which will further drive down their tax bill during that time period.

Much of that will likely drive up share prices as most of the tax savings will primarily be used, one would suspect, for dividends and share buybacks.

However, it might also accelerate capacity investments for certain projects. Two that come to mind are both on BNSF - the second bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO on the Southern Transcon and the second bridge over Lake Pend Oreille on the Northern Transcon.

In fact, I would hazard a guess that if one railroad will optimize the use of those tax changes for both immediate and long term gains, it would be BNSF because of their unique situation as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Berkshire Hathway. There is no need for them to use earnings to buy back shares. So, in theory, they will likely be able to both increase their dividend payment to Berkshire Hathway because of the tax savings, while at the same time using some of the cash flow from the tax savings to complete capacity enhancements which further reduces their tax bill for five years, while at the same time setting them up for further business growth and future profits.

It will be very interesting to see how that all plays out at the US "Big Seven" (including the US properties of CN and CP which still exist as corporate entities in the US).

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 279 posts
Posted by A McIntosh on Saturday, December 16, 2017 9:08 AM

If the stock price nosedives low enough, one can hope and pray that a Warren Buffett type of investor will buy the whole thing and tell the Wall St. hedge funds what they can do with themselves. From what I have read, CSX is in need of a leader that has a passion for railroading and wants to see it grow and thrive.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:41 AM

overall

I wish someone would gives us all a short lesson in corporate governance. It would seem to me that the stock holders would have a right to know his condition i.e. good, stable, fair, critical etc. Also, I thought Cindy Sanborn was "out". Does she still have some kind of influence? 

I was part of corporate governance for a Fortune 100 corporation.  It has many legs and is a complex subject.

The board of directors is the most important component of corporate governance.

Without access to board documents it is impossible to know what the mmbers  knew about by Mr. Harrison's health prior to his employment.  However, it is unlikely that they were not briefed on his health issues if they were thought to be significant at the time.

Irrespective of what the board may have known about Mr. Harrison's health, privacy laws would prohibit disclosure of the information to the shareholders or anyone else.    

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, December 16, 2017 6:59 AM

BaltACD

For anyone that thinks the EHH bubble in CSX shares and the Trump bubble on NYSE shares will continue - boy do I have a bridge to sell you cheap!

I spent 51.5 years for CSX and it's predecessors in trying to make it better and more efficient day in and day out in a variety of both Contract and non-Contract positions.  To see that effort trashed in the short time EHH had the reins is maddening beyond description.  

Today marks 1 year since I actually WORKED!  And worked Overtime on the 1st Rest Day of my '4-day weekend'.  While the 19th was my last day on the payroll it wasn't a 'working' day - retirement party and all that.

 

[I posted this earlier in this Thread, and based on the following comments, I think it still has some validity.]
 

 

 

   >**************************************************<

 

 'Planned EXIT????? Whistling   {' Snidely Whiplash' ties the unsuspecting [stockholders(?)] to the rails, Takes his money, and runs(?)'}    

 

   Call me conspiratorial, but the timing seems somewhat convenient ?

His medical conditions [EHH's] , would seem to be the types that are present, long term, and developing in an individual. [my non-medical opinion]. Point is they existed Before his transition to CSX. Someone HAD to be aware of their presence. Halal (?) and Mantle Bridge, surely, would `have suspected the outcome would be negative if those conditions(and their implications), were public knowledge. 

 My point is, it seems, CSX Corp. was sold A SCAM; AND THEY BOUGHT IT: HOOK,LINE, and BRIDGE!

 I've been retired for almost 15 years, and Balt's transparent frustration in watching CSX seem to be destroyed; is a point of bitter frustration for him.            Like watching a home one has built be set on fire....IMHO My 2 CentsSigh.

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,475 posts
Posted by overall on Saturday, December 16, 2017 2:07 AM

I wish someone would gives us all a short lesson in corporate governance. It would seem to me that the stock holders would have a right to know his condition i.e. good, stable, fair, critical etc. Also, I thought Cindy Sanborn was "out". Does she still have some kind of influence?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, December 15, 2017 8:33 PM

For anyone that thinks the EHH bubble in CSX shares and the Trump bubble on NYSE shares will continue - boy do I have a bridge to sell you cheap!

I spent 51.5 years for CSX and it's predecessors in trying to make it better and more efficient day in and day out in a variety of both Contract and non-Contract positions.  To see that effort trashed in the short time EHH had the reins is maddening beyond description.  

Today marks 1 year since I actually WORKED!  And worked Overtime on the 1st Rest Day of my '4-day weekend'.  While the 19th was my last day on the payroll it wasn't a 'working' day - retirement party and all that.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Friday, December 15, 2017 5:40 PM

It may seem like a profitable ride on the surface, but that little guy with a hundred shares who just lost his job as a result will find any windfall quickly vanishing.  The pump and dump investor that makes money is not the little guy, nor does that philosophy grow the economy so everyone benefits.

John

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, December 15, 2017 5:00 PM

PNWRMNM

It is a mighty strange theft when Balt's $30 something stock becomes an over $50 stock.

So far Hilal has taken the little guys on a very profitable ride. Hard to see how he has screwed them.

Facts are so inconvenient! The recent 10% share pride drop in one day is tells the tale of the market's evaluation of EHH's worth to CSX. From here on I hope the hysteria on both sides subsides, and expect to see how his understudy performs. That performance will be the fundamental driver of both service and stock price in the future.

Mac

 

  

Great if you are "pump and dump" kind of investor.  Maybe not so great if you are in it for the long term.

Jeff

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, December 15, 2017 4:44 PM

Balt, I can feel for you. I wrote to the Mutual Funds that manage my funds (which held CSX shares) advising them that I wanted them to vote against EHH and his obscene bonus. Lot of good that did. Whether the Precision Railroad Plan succeeds remains to be seen. When you feed the horse sawdust and whip it, you may move some freight for a short while but after its digestive system gets clogged, it can't work and everything grinds to a halt. Good luck on your drive and get home safely.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, December 15, 2017 3:31 PM

slotracer
FYI...word I hear is that Cindy Sanborn who was reportedly a former Hunter Koolaide drinker eventually got tired of the direction CSX was headed and may have been involved in trying to have him voted out this fall, word I got is that the board was just one vote shy of kicking Hunter to the curb so that failed and suddenly Cindy had "left to pursue other opportunities".

Which means she may still be available should another vote be taken to put the invalid on his farm - either above or below ground.  My understanding has been that the Sanborn family is the single largest 'non-institutional' holder of CSX stock.  I don't know that for a fact, just what I have heard.

CSX is not a operating property that one 'learns' in the time either EHH or his cronies have been on the property.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • 258 posts
Posted by slotracer on Friday, December 15, 2017 2:50 PM

We are actaully celebrating this. He was destroying the railroad and causing great harm to customers, employees and the CSX as a company for the sole purpose of lining his pockets and that of the shareholders primarily the vulture capitalist Mantle Ridge. They cut numerous intermodal lanes in October and shuddered many ramps mid November with 0-3 days notice to the 3 PL's. Jumping over tomorrows dollars to get to todays pennies in a mad rush to cash in as quick as possible and leave CSX a smoking shell afterwards. Our sales rep told me CSX has lost hundreds of millions in business, they can't even equate how much and the hemorraging of business was greatly accelerating.

I was told by a CSX insider I trust after the news announcement about 2 weeks ago that he was stepping back to let his senior officers more latitude to run the railroad was a hoax, he is a control freak, he didn't have an epiphany, he was reportedly in serious health and maybe nearing death. Again reports are emphasyma amongst other problems.

 

FYI...word I hear is that Cindy Sanborn who was reportedly a former Hunter Koolaide drinker eventually got tired of the direction CSX was headed and may have been involved in trying to have him voted out this fall, word I got is that the board was just one vote shy of kicking Hunter to the curb so that failed and suddenly Cindy had "left to pursue other opportunities".

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 2,593 posts
Posted by PNWRMNM on Friday, December 15, 2017 1:01 PM

It is a mighty strange theft when Balt's $30 something stock becomes an over $50 stock.

So far Hilal has taken the little guys on a very profitable ride. Hard to see how he has screwed them.

Facts are so inconvenient! The recent 10% share pride drop in one day is tells the tale of the market's evaluation of EHH's worth to CSX. From here on I hope the hysteria on both sides subsides, and expect to see how his understudy performs. That performance will be the fundamental driver of both service and stock price in the future.

Mac

 

 
BaltACD

As a stockholder, I view EHH and Mantle Ridge's play as Larceny by trick!  And the institutional stockholders were too greedy themselves to see it.

I am among the 7% of stockholders that saw through this theft!

Norm 48327

Balt,

I am not a stockholder but I surely understand you position.  You dedicated years of your life toward keeping CSX viable and healthy in hopes of having a decent retirement income based on your stock and years of service. Thanks to the likes of corporate raiders like Hilal it seemd the little guy always comes out on the short end. IMO, that is sad. The elites grab everything they can and screw everyone else in the processs.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, December 15, 2017 12:26 PM

BaltACD

As a stockholder, I view EHH and Mantle Ridge's play as Larceny by trick!  And the institutional stockholders were too greedy themselves to see it.

I am among the 7% of stockholders that saw through this theft!

Balt,

I am not a stockholder but I surely understand you position.  You dedicated years of your life toward keeping CSX viable and healthy in hopes of having a decent retirement income based on your stock and years of service. Thanks to the likes of corporate raiders like Hilal it seemd the little guy always comes out on the short end. IMO, that is sad. The elites grab everything they can and screw everyone else in the processs.

Norm


Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy