This is a copy of the letter sent to Mr. Hunter. Time to reopen some foolishly closed Hump Yards!
https://www.stb.gov/stb/docs/NonDocumentedPublic_Correspondence/2017/STB%20to%20CSX%20Harrison%20July%202017.pdf
James Sanchez
Does anybody know what the next step is? Can the STB step in and force reversal of some of the changes?
There is a huge difference between the STB and what he had to deal with in Canada. Here in the states they will if needed start fining his butt millions of dollars and if needed order him to stop implementing his plans to improve customer service. Why can they do that simple they are empowered to do so by act of Congress. EHH is going to find out that the government here still has teeth and will bite hard or at least the BOD of CSX is going to in one hell of a hurry.
Sounds like railroad custumer serivice has gone from bad to worse
Shadow the Cats owner There is a huge difference between the STB and what he had to deal with in Canada. Here in the states they will if needed start fining his butt millions of dollars and if needed order him to stop implementing his plans to improve customer service. Why can they do that simple they are empowered to do so by act of Congress. EHH is going to find out that the government here still has teeth and will bite hard or at least the BOD of CSX is going to in one hell of a hurry.
I am of the opinion Harrison has finally met his match and he will be CEO for a very short time. In addition to his health being of concern, the STB stepping in this early in his tenure speaks volumes. I believe he made changes too quickly without giving each change time for lower level management to accomodate those changes. He used an axe when a scalpel would have been more in order. Surgically removing unnecessary operations one at a time would have been more in order but he chose to do all at once and left CSX in total chaos.
I doubt his actions have truly benefitted CSX stockholders, but given the board's decision, with stockholder approval, to approve his demand for $84,000,000 I'm sure he will be paid that. Look at the ridiculous salaries the CEO's of corporations like Sears got paid only to shepherd the company into bankruptcy.
The STB needs to come down very hard on Harrison. He is not making CSX better. He is raping the company for the benefit of a hedge fund and his own greed.
Norm
overall Does anybody know what the next step is? Can the STB step in and force reversal of some of the changes?
STB's purpose is to preserve and protect interstate commerce/service, not to be a management guru or price fixer. Ombudsman's dilema in the offing? (and hopefully some of the Wall Street Trash bullies get a bloody nose, egoes deflated and an overdue wake-up call)
CSX is a private business.. if you're not happy with the service then go elsewhere.. that's how competition works.
I fully agree, if you have not read it yet, check out Railway Age's editorial, "What is going on at CSX?" It list many of the crazy moves Hunter is making, I agree with what you said a scapel was needed not an axe. CSX was still very profitable before Harrison's arrival, it main weaknesses were customer service, directionless management and slow transit times.
Trust me the customers are leaving in droves when they can!
I wonder if Mr. Buffett is looking to expand his 1:1 layout?
Directed service order probably wild but to NS, UP, or BNSF still bad. Moorman ? But what if SEC suspends trading in CSX stock ? Now that could be a big put down ? Don't own CSX stock but 2 who did have bailed in the last week.
EDIT: One item missed in the debate is that the power companies need to use their Coal fired plants until the investment in them has been fully depreciated. As understood some plants cannot be converted to natural gas economically ? Best case is those generating plants that can use either coal or gas at flick of switches.
jsanchezCSX was still very profitable before Harrison's arrival, it main weaknesses were customer service, directionless management and slow transit times.
EHH has ramped up the weakness in Customer Service, has reinforced the directionlessness of management and slowed transit times to the point of gridlock, increasing total cars on line and their resultant increase in per diem payments to the car's owners.
CSX will have a large hill to climb after Mantle Ridge and EHH's oxygen tank runs out.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Take this for what you will my boss has heard thru several of the other carriers in the area that UPS is offering massive rates starting Monday for loads going to the NE. The requirements are Double Endorsement Haz-mat and UPS is paying all tolls for the carriers. We are guessing that UPS is tired of CSX and their BS and is going to pull their loads going to Upstate NY Boston and the Northeast from CSX entirely. A tidal wave of customers leaving is about to hammer CSX and it is not going to be pretty.
If Harrison is the one man wrecking ball that everyone says, why doesn’t anybody stop him?
EuclidIf Harrison is the one man wrecking ball that everyone says, why doesn’t anybody stop him?
Investors know nothing about operating a railroad. They believe the BS that Mantle Ridge fed them to give EHH the $84M 'signing bonus' and Lord only knows what BS Mantle Ridge is snowing them with at present to keep them from coming in contact with reality and rioting.
Euclid If Harrison is the one man wrecking ball that everyone says, why doesn’t anybody stop him?
Money talks. All he needs to do is cost the investors money and he will be gone in no time. The market already didn't react well to the conference call. I'm sure the STB sticking their nose in the business is another cause for concern.
BC2 Euclid If Harrison is the one man wrecking ball that everyone says, why doesn’t anybody stop him? Money talks. All he needs to do is cost the investors money and he will be gone in no time. The market already didn't react well to the conference call. I'm sure the STB sticking their nose in the business is another cause for concern.
So is this just a big conspiracy to have EHH kill off the company for the immediate, one-time gain of the investors? Or are you saying that it is the investors who are the ones that will stop EHH if he keeps on harming performance?
Euclid BC2 Euclid If Harrison is the one man wrecking ball that everyone says, why doesn’t anybody stop him? Money talks. All he needs to do is cost the investors money and he will be gone in no time. The market already didn't react well to the conference call. I'm sure the STB sticking their nose in the business is another cause for concern. So is this just a big conspiracy to have EHH kill off the company for the immediate, one-time gain of the investors? Or are you saying that it is the investors who are the ones that will stop EHH if he keeps on harming performance?
It is the institutional investors believing the smoke that the hedge fund Mantle Ridge blew up their posteriors and installing Mantle Ridge's 'anoited one' EHH to be CEO. 2nd Quarter financials cooked the books (within generally accepted accounting principles [which have a lot of wiggle room]) to show financial benefits without reference to the reality of what was taking place on the railroad itself.
Reality is starting to bite - in a big way.
EuclidSo is this just a big conspiracy to have EHH kill off the company for the immediate, one-time gain of the investors?
Nobody said it was a conspiracy to kill off the company. The investors don't care one way or the other what's left of the company. Does a mugger care about the condition of the muggee after the mugging?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Thus reminds me of the STB's response to the horrific service meltdown which occurred when the SP was merged into UP, and when CR was split up and merged into NS and - oh, yeah, CSX (plus a few lesser ones).
DSO is issued only when operations are so screwed up that even government intervention can't make it any worse, but only improve it.
- PDN.
This Motley Fool report says EHH may be gone in 6 months ?!?
"O'Reilly: This is the guy that's supposedly going to be going in six months."
"Muckerman: . . . So, a little heartfelt nod to the industry, but he's not going to be there when that last railcar likely ships, as he did say he's more of a placeholder CEO. He's really like a vagabond that jumps from train to train, making his way across North America. . . . "
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/07/26/csx-rail-down-5-on-shocking-conference-call.aspx
Go look at the Railroad Performance Measures webpage for CSX:
http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx
Without breaking out the calculator, here's what I see:
Total Cars On-Line up about 4% in the last month, and from 3Q16.
Train Speed down across the board, except Grain Unit - and Multilevel no longer reported. For All Trains, from 20.8 MPH in 3Q16 and 21.5 in June steadily down to 19.2 MPH for the w/e 7/21. From 3Q16, that's an 8% decrease in speed.
Terminal Dwell for Entire Railroad up from 25.7 hrs. in 3Q16 to 28.0 last week = up about 9%.
All this may look like "Precision Scheduled Railroading" to EHH, but not to me. These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. The 3Q results will be telling, but best compared year-over-year since there are 2 holiday weeks in the 3Q, but only 1 in the 2Q.
I would be interesing in knowing just what Mr. Harrison means when he speaks of "Precision Scheduled Railroading." Precision Scheduled Slowdown? Precision Scheduled How to Drive Customers Away?
Johnny
Deggesty I would be interesing in knowing just what Mr. Harrison means when he speaks of "Precision Scheduled Railroading." Precision Scheduled Slowdown? Precision Scheduled How to Drive Customers Away?
The precision RR here has had something here never seen before. An eastbound BNSF intermodal haulage train has been stopped here, split to free open road crossing in what appears to be CSX crew off duty due to HOS. These CSX crews for all BNSF haulage trains are all BHM bassed. This train has JB HUNT containers + FED EX and UPS containers and trailers. No wonder UPS is upset ?
Train stopped about 1130
About how much more time did the crews need to get in to the terminal? I wonder if they were called out on short rest--or is there such a thing now?
DeggestyAbout how much more time did the crews need to get in to the terminal? I wonder if they were called out on short rest--or is there such a thing now?
Brirmingham to Fariburn Ramp - with normal traffic levels is about a 9 hour run - 'short rest' in today's world is normally a Deadhead and Turn run. Called for a 2 to 3 hour Deadhead to the trains origin and then the balance of the 9 to 10 hours that are left to work the train back to the original on duty point.
The only kind of 'short rest' situation (outside of passenger runs) is where a crew working a train into their Away From Home Terminal is instructed to take 4 or more hours (a specified show up time can be communicated) rest and then go back on duty to take a train back to their home terminal. This is only done on runs where the over the road time is normally 5 hours or less. If the inbound crew is on duty more than 6 hours they will normally not be instructed to take the 4 hour rest provisions of the HOS Law.
As CSX implemented the HOS Law's provisions, if a crew has 'marked off' Crew Management CAN NOT CONTACT them until 10 Hours from their mark off time, in fact no one from CSX can initiate contact with crew members that are in the first 10 hours after their mark off (Home or Away). Crew members themselves can contact the company at any time.
The only acceptable excuse to contact a crew after they have marked off and before 10 hours have elapsed is that the crew 'went home with the railroad'. The crew never released track occupancy authority they held back to the Train Dispatcher.
Thanks, Balt. My only experience with a crew called out on short rest came when I took the Wabash Cannon Ball from Detroit to St. Louis in the spring of 1970. They had come the night before, and had to be called out on short rest (nobody else was available). There was no problem until we were held up by a freight that had broken in two--and while the train was being put back together, apparently a helpful soul passing by closed an anglecock--and the train crew had to walk the train to find the problem.
Along with that and having to wait for the dogcatcher, I missed my connection with the Panama in St. Louis and had to go down to New Orleans the next day on the City. That was an adventure in itself because all three of the engines on the City had electrical problems. An electrician boarded in Fulton, but could not keep the engines running, so one freight engine was put on in Dyersburg, and we arrived New Orleans almost seven hours late. I got off at Carrollton Avenue, and did catch the Southern Crescent to get up to Tuscaloosa (I already had my ticket and my Pullman seat).
DeggestyThanks, Balt. My only experience with a crew called out on short rest came when I took the Wabash Cannon Ball from Detroit to St. Louis in the spring of 1970. They had come the night before, and had to be called out on short rest (nobody else was available). There was no problem until we were held up by a freight that had broken in two--and while the train was being put back together, apparently a helpful soul passing by closed an anglecock--and the train crew had to walk the train to find the problem. Along with that and having to wait for the dogcatcher, I missed my connection with the Panama in St. Louis and had to go down to New Orleans the next day on the City. That was an adventure in itself because all three of the engines on the City had electrical problems. An electrician boarded in Fulton, but could not keep the engines running, so one freight engine was put on in Dyersburg, and we arrived New Orleans almost seven hours late. I got off at Carrollton Avenue, and did catch the Southern Crescent to get up to Tuscaloosa (I already had my ticket and my Pullman seat).
1970 was in the days of the 16 Hour, HOS Law, which permitted a 2 hour or more rest break within the 16 hours to extend the 'law time'. After 8 hours rest a crew was fully rested - at one point in time, resting on the train's own caboose was 'acceptable lodging' (well before my time).
ie. Called 0001 - HOS 1601, however if crew was given a 2 or more hour 'respite' the HOS time got extended by the amount of time in 'respite status' 1801 or later as dictated by the lenght of the respite.
It is my impression that if you are running against the current of traffic on a track that is signaled for one direction only you are running in dark territory--and so your have a lower speed limit than traffic moving with the signals.
I learned recently (from our Streaker down in Georgia) that the track east of Austell, Georgia (where the main line from Birmingham runs into the H line (Chattanooga/Ooltewah to Brunswick) the track is a least double track that is signaled in both directions on both tracks--and is not CTC. I do not know if this is extended past Howell (where the main line enters/leaves the H line) or not.
DeggestyIt is my impression that if you are running against the current of traffic on a track that is signaled for one direction only you are running in dark territory--and so your have a lower speed limit than traffic moving with the signals. I learned recently (from our Streaker down in Georgia) that the track east of Austell, Georgia (where the main line from Birmingham runs into the H line (Chattanooga/Ooltewah to Brunswick) the track is a least double track that is signaled in both directions on both tracks--and is not CTC. I do not know if this is extended past Howell (where the main line enters/leaves the H line) or not.
The present limits on non-signalled track are 49 MPH for freight and 59 MPH for passenger.
jsanchez Railway Age's editorial, "What is going on at CSX?"
Railway Age's editorial, "What is going on at CSX?"
http://railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/william-vantuono/hunter-harrison-responds-to-railway-age.html
wanswheel jsanchez Railway Age's editorial, "What is going on at CSX?" http://railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/william-vantuono/hunter-harrison-responds-to-railway-age.html
blue streak 1 Train stopped about 1130
I am pleased to read EHH’s response to the Railway Age article outlining the complaints against him.
When Trump was elected, he vowed to drain the swamp, meaning get rid of the waste and inefficiency. Well the swamp is fighting back in its own self-interest.
Likewise, maybe these reported operating problems with CSX being blamed on EHH is just the swamp of inefficient corporate bureaucracy fighting change and throwing sand in the gears of the guy who is on a mission to cut the waste.
That is basically what he said in the rebuttal piece in Railway Age.
blue streak 1Question. Since both split trains were stranded more than 4 hours would a complete brake check be required for each of them ?
Yes - but only on the portion that was off air!
zardoz Sounds alot like one of our current administration's press releases: "I know what I'm doing; No need to worry; Everything is under control; We will make this railroad great again".
Sounds alot like one of our current administration's press releases: "I know what I'm doing; No need to worry; Everything is under control; We will make this railroad great again".
And chocolate rations have increased!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannAnd chocolate rations have increased!
Hey Zug, as a guy who values a small ration of the chocolate drops that are ususally found in cookies I second the motion they be increased. More chocolate and more cookie please.
Norm48327 zugmann And chocolate rations have increased! Hey Zug, as a guy who values a small ration of the chocolate drops that are ususally found in cookies I second the motion they be increased. More chocolate and more cookie please.
zugmann And chocolate rations have increased!
Very good, Winston.
I just got called into work today. Why we now have to cover a UPS dedicated run to Boston with our normal weekly runs until who knows when. Luckily UPS is going to throw it on a 53 foot trailer for us we just had to come up with a team for it. So I begged 2 part time retirees we use to cover vacationing drivers to jump into a truck and start out. All I know is for the foreseeable future we are getting 4 bucks a mile just for a freaking truck with all tolls paid for by UPS so are drivers are running the IN OH NY and MA pikes to get to their destination ASAP and back.
Just heard from that truck over 200 trucks at UPS heading all over the Northeast. CSX better wake up fast or they are going to be hurting on the bottom line in a hurry.
Shadow the Cats ownerJust heard from that truck over 200 trucks at UPS heading all over the Northeast. CSX better wake up fast or they are going to be hurting on the bottom line in a hurry.
CSX was awake until EHH forced sleeping pills down their throat, appears his oxygen bottle is not keeping his brain sufficiently oxygenated for effective thoughts.
Excerpt from Wall Street Journal, July 26
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/07/27/norfolk-southern-wins-customers-from-rival-csx-wsj.html
Norfolk Southern Corp. says it is starting to win over customers to its railway amid disruptions at rival CSX Corp., whose network is undergoing an extensive overhaul under a new chief executive.
"We have seen some business move over to us," Norfolk Southern Chief Marketing Officer Alan Shaw said on an earnings call Wednesday. "It's a small amount, I'll tell you that, but it's early."
CSX is the midst of change under new CEO Hunter Harrison, who joined in March promising to quickly cut costs and implement a network with more precisely scheduled trains. Already, he has closed a number of yards that sort railcars and put thousands of railcars and hundreds of locomotives in storage.
The changes have disrupted operations for shippers, some who have seen days added to transit times for cars. Mr. Harrison last week told analysts that shippers need to brace for "a little pain and suffering" amid the changes, which he says will ultimately lead to better service and faster trains.
Norfolk Southern appears to be capitalizing to some degree from the changes at its primary Eastern U.S. rival for long-haul rail shipments. Norfolk Southern executives cautioned it was early in the process and that it will only go after the added volume if it makes sense.
"We'll take the market share, whether it's from truck or competitors, as long as it complements our network and, obviously, falls to the bottom line," Chief Executive James Squires said. Mr. Squires said his railway is conducting focus groups with shippers on how to improve service and "redesign our network around what they want."
Many shippers can't move traffic easily from one railway to another, since mines, production facilities and warehouses may only have one track serving their facility. But as shippers plan long term projects, some are leaning toward the potentially more stable situation.
"If there is uncertainty there, I'd rather go with a more certain future," said Jay Roman, president of Escalation Consultants Inc., which helps shippers negotiate rail contracts.
Wish I had contacts with our intermodal division at Schneider, a lot of our containers are routed via CSX..........
BaltACD Shadow the Cats owner Just heard from that truck over 200 trucks at UPS heading all over the Northeast. CSX better wake up fast or they are going to be hurting on the bottom line in a hurry. CSX was awake until EHH forced sleeping pills down their throat, appears his oxygen bottle is not keeping his brain sufficiently oxygenated for effective thoughts.
Shadow the Cats owner Just heard from that truck over 200 trucks at UPS heading all over the Northeast. CSX better wake up fast or they are going to be hurting on the bottom line in a hurry.
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
It's almost tragic how EHH has been allowed to go from RR to RR to wreak havoc and wreck lives and careers in the process (I'm one of the victims during his 4 1/2 year stint at CPRS). This functioning lunatic is out for himself and the shareholders - plain pure and simple and how some people keep defending this guy is simply beyond me. I personally was disappointed that BNSF or UP didn't make a play for CSXT when they had a chance and although one of them likely will somewhere down the road, it will be a railroad far less valuable than what it was at the beginning of 2017.
http://railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/in-letter-to-shippers-harrison-apologizes-for-csx-service-issues-blames-some-employees.html?channel=&Itemid=481
Now we know why they are having problems. It's those darned employees again. (Just like someone on another forum predicted where the blame would be placed.)
Jeff
jeffhergert http://railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/in-letter-to-shippers-harrison-apologizes-for-csx-service-issues-blames-some-employees.html?channel=&Itemid=481 Now we know why they are having problems. It's those darned employees again. (Just like someone on another forum predicted where the blame would be placed.) Jeff
Deggesty jeffhergert http://railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/in-letter-to-shippers-harrison-apologizes-for-csx-service-issues-blames-some-employees.html?channel=&Itemid=481 Now we know why they are having problems. It's those darned employees again. (Just like someone on another forum predicted where the blame would be placed.) Jeff Is he like a child who says, "Not me?" or is he unable to comprehend the consequences of his decisions?
Is he like a child who says, "Not me?" or is he unable to comprehend the consequences of his decisions?
There is a lot of that in high places these days. The buck stops over there!
Excerpt from Reuters, Aug. 1
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-csx-disruptions-idUSKBN1AH4OV?il=0
John Risch, a spokesman for the transportation division of the SMART Union, which represents CSX operations employees, said "significant delays" had been caused by Harrison's changes, such as doubling the size of trains and shutting down hump yards where a freight train's cars are separated onto different tracks.
"No one is more to blame for CSX's service disruptions than the man who ordered the dramatic changes to operations and that's Hunter Harrison," Risch said by email.
All I know is we have customers CSX systemwide that we and they serve screaming how freaking fast can you get more of what we haul to them there. I not just talking plastic resins either. I got calls today from plants that need acid cities that are looking at their cholrine supply and getting worried. We are jumping thru hoops to get more loads moved to them and asking our drivers to work with us right now. Luckily all our drivers are willing to stay out if needed to service our customers so we should be able to keep things okay but all I can say is EHH your done SCREWED UP BIG TIME and the OTR industry as a whole thanks you. Spot rates for areas that are having trouble with service for the CSX are up 50-70% that should tell you something.
Narcissists can never accept fault for their failed actions. Sound familiar?
BaltACD Narcissists can never accept fault for their failed actions. Sound familiar?
All I have to say is his pride is going to do 2 of 4 things plug up the eastern railroad network with stalled trains. 2 make OTR trucking firms go why are we using Railroads at all very possible for the North East right now. 3 force the Government to reregulate the Railroad and all Transportation industry see airline issues on top of this. 4 go down in flames as the worst CEO in the history of Railroading.
Do you have a lot of mirrors?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm BaltACD Narcissists can never accept fault for their failed actions. Sound familiar? Do you have a lot of mirrors?
I have always accepted responsibility for my actions - good and bad.
BaltACD schlimm BaltACD Narcissists can never accept fault for their failed actions. Sound familiar? Do you have a lot of mirrors? I have always accepted responsibility for my actions - good and bad.
Always? I was referring to your making the identical snarky post on two CSX threads. You might want to watch how you toss around clinical terms. You know racing, dispatching and railroading very well, but you are getting out of your depth on the former.
schlimm BaltACD schlimm BaltACD Narcissists can never accept fault for their failed actions. Sound familiar? Do you have a lot of mirrors? I have always accepted responsibility for my actions - good and bad. Always? I was referring to your making the identical snarky post on two CSX threads. You might want to watch how you toss around clinical terms. You know racing, dispatching and railroading very well, but you are getting out of your depth on the former.
Central Maryland Chapter of Snark R Us!
I am seeing any number of individuals inside railroading and outside of it that feel they are the 'only ones' that have ALL the answers and are NEVER wrong and see things only THEIR way, even when it varys with reality. Just calling them like I see them! Strike two!
Strike three! When's the last time you acknowledged you were 'off base' a bit?
schlimmStrike three! When's the last time you acknowledged you were 'off base' a bit?
Nope - Snarks foul off pitches that they don't knock out of the park.
BaltACD schlimm Strike three! When's the last time you acknowledged you were 'off base' a bit? Nope - Snarks foul off pitches that they don't knock out of the park.
schlimm Strike three! When's the last time you acknowledged you were 'off base' a bit?
A high pop foul behind the plate. Contreras camps under it. Caught. Out three!
Cubs win! Cubs win! Cubs win!
schlimm BaltACD schlimm Strike three! When's the last time you acknowledged you were 'off base' a bit? Nope - Snarks foul off pitches that they don't knock out of the park. A high pop foul behind the plate. Contreras camps under it. Caught. Out three! Cubs win! Cubs win! Cubs win!
Once in 108 years. Even a blind squirrel stumbles over some nuts. Contreras stumbled over the blind squirrel and didn't make the catch.
BaltACDOnce in 108 years. Even a blind squirrel stumbles over some nuts. Contreras stumbled over the blind squirrel and didn't make the catch.
You'd better stop racing if your vision is that poor.
The shippers have spoken.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-shippers-look-to-ns-trucks-cowen-report.html
Bruce Kelly The shippers have spoken. http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-shippers-look-to-ns-trucks-cowen-report.html
Funny how many of the EHH fangirls have suddenly gone silent.
Nothing new to add really.. change generally involves some disruption in the short term. We're seeing that. The article also states that.. i.e. paragraph 7..
Ulrich Nothing new to add really.. change generally involves some disruption in the short term. We're seeing that. The article also states that.. i.e. paragraph 7..
Uh, SOME disruption? How 'bout full-fledged meltdown instead? And now throw this nasty derailment on top of it all.
http://www.wtae.com/article/homes-evacuated-amid-freight-train-derailment-fire-in-bedford-county-pennsylvania/10401728
If all this doom and gloom of one man destroying CSX is true, what should be done about it? Wouldn’t the destruction of CSX be a national emergency? Does the government need to intervene to save the company?
EuclidIf all this doom and gloom of one man destroying CSX is true, what should be done about it? Wouldn’t the destruction of CSX be a national emergency? Does the government need to intervene to save the company?
The STB writing their letter last week is the 1st step toward some form of government intervention - not to save the company - rather to benefit the shippers and receivers of the goods that the company handles.
The creation of ConRail was not about saving Penn Central - it was about providing transportation service to the areas that Penn Central served.
And we all know the minions in government are more capable than the rest of us..Let's not forget that the Penn Central debacle was in large measure brought on by out of date regulations, not the incompetence of people like Al Perlman who did their best given the circumstances.
Euclid If all this doom and gloom of one man destroying CSX is true, what should be done about it? Wouldn’t the destruction of CSX be a national emergency? Does the government need to intervene to save the company?
Everything is always gloom and doom.. I guess its a sign of the times. CSX is having some switching problems. They've got capable people, but Rome wasn't built in a day. If you can look past the hyperbole and the panic stricken people, this might actually be a good time to buy the stock.
UlrichCSX is having some switching problems.
Ulrich Euclid If all this doom and gloom of one man destroying CSX is true, what should be done about it? Wouldn’t the destruction of CSX be a national emergency? Does the government need to intervene to save the company? Everything is always gloom and doom.. I guess its a sign of the times. CSX is having some switching problems. They've got capable people, but Rome wasn't built in a day. If you can look past the hyperbole and the panic stricken people, this might actually be a good time to buy the stock.
Well, underlying my question is the question of whether the collapse of CSX is being exaggerated for the benefit of the eternal shippers' grievance toward the railroads they use.
If it is not being exaggerated, then government intervention is urgently needed.
Most definitely exaggerated.. i.e. collapse of CSX.. Keep in mind that freight volumes are very strong across the board right now. Part of the shippers' agst may be due to capacity constraints. Truck capacity in the markets CSX serves is extremely tight right now.. especially in the Southeast. No doubt shippers are growing frustrated, and those frustrations are likely most acute with transportation vendors who are undergoing massive changes over and above tightened capacity. Probably the best time to make those changes is when freight volumes are down.. but.. sometimes the timing is beyond anyone's control.
I went out to Radnor yard (in Nashville) yesterday and observed it from the Harding Pike Overpass (a public Right of Way). The hump was idle, as I expected. What I didn't expect was all the cars I saw in the bowl tracks. They were full up. In fact, there were cars everywhere, but not one car moving, anywhere. How are they getting cars into the bowl? From the opposite end? It shows how plugged up CSX is, because of this foolishness.
zugmann Ulrich CSX is having some switching problems.
Ulrich CSX is having some switching problems.
I see problems that can be worked out.
UlrichMost definitely exaggerated.. i.e. collapse of CSX.. Keep in mind that freight volumes are very strong across the board right now. Part of the shippers' agst may be due to capacity constraints. Truck capacity in the markets CSX serves is extremely tight right now.. especially in the Southeast. No doubt shippers are growing frustrated, and those frustrations are likely most acute with transportation vendors who are undergoing massive changes over and above tightened capacity. Probably the best time to make those changes is when freight volumes are down.. but.. sometimes the timing is beyond anyone's control.
My sources know what it takes for CSX to operate - they have been operating it for years. CSX is in gridlock today. Gridlock orchastrated by a failed operating plan and removal of operating resources from operation.
The freight levels today are nowhere near the levels that have been successfully handled in the past.
Zugmann- " Nothing to see here"...good one! It's perfect.
Now they have a big derailment to deal with.
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Yes, Euclid, Yes. Not to save the company, but save its customers. There are areas where CSX is the exclusive raliroad provider, and where highway and/or water transportation is not really feasible for the particular important commodities.
I expect a Government takeover and installation of operating people without any ties to HH. Unless HH shows some sense and HUMILITY very soon. I felt he had not one clue how to run CSX (and he would have similar problems with NS). CSX is a spaghetti bowl compared to the simple networks of IC, CN, and CP.
overall I went out to Radnor yard (in Nashville) yesterday and observed it from the Harding Pike Overpass (a public Right of Way). The hump was idle, as I expected. What I didn't expect was all the cars I saw in the bowl tracks. They were full up. In fact, there were cars everywhere, but not one car moving, anywhere. How are they getting cars into the bowl? From the opposite end? It shows how plugged up CSX is, because of this foolishness.
According to the latest AAR Railroad Performance Measures stats, Radnor yard right now has the highest dwell time on the whole CSX system - almost 3 days!
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Unlikely, IMO.
EHH blames the pushback of a few employees; SMART union spokesperson Risch blames EHH.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-csx-disruptions-idUSKBN1AH4OV
Trump and co. need to get their house in order first..I doubt anyone in government can do a better job.. ((if they could they would.. pays alot better).
ns145 According to the latest AAR Railroad Performance Measures stats, Radnor yard right now has the highest dwell time on the whole CSX system - almost 3 days!
On the surface CSX’s dwell times don’t appear to be way off the industry averages, although they have been increasing.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
I have been through more failed operating plans on CSX than I care to count. They all have this same sort of appearance until someone wakes up and fires some other one. Hunter will stay around until Mantle Ridge is no long the tail that is trying to wag the CSX dog (The Chessie cat is upset at the dog analogy.) If Paul Hilal wakes up and begins to understand the damage is oxygen starved cadaver is doing to his investment then there will be change. Hilal better not stay asleep much longer or he can kiss the value of his investment good bye.
BaltACDthe tail that is trying to wag the CSX dog (The Chessie cat is upset at the dog analogy.)
Well, we can't have that.
The Chessie Cat, in all his/her? reincarnations, is about the only cat I ever really liked.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
BaltACD oxygen starved cadaver
oxygen starved cadaver
Poor guy. I kind of feel sorry for him he can't do a lot of things he used to.
wanswheel BaltACD oxygen starved cadaver Poor guy. I kind of feel sorry for him he can't do a lot of things he used to.
Dementia is like that!
BaltACD wanswheel BaltACD oxygen starved cadaver Poor guy. I kind of feel sorry for him he can't do a lot of things he used to. Dementia is like that!
You should hear what is being said about him over on railroader forums like yardlimits and runningtrades. Some comments would make a sailor blush.
People don't like you very much if you destroy their workplace culture and careers. To put it mildly I hope that whatever he has is painful. And karma's got a long way to go yet.
And I will shortly be joining the line to dance (among other things) on his grave.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Sd70M-2 Dude- " To put it mildly I hope that whatever he has is painful. And karma's got a long way to go yet.
And I will shortly be joining the line to dance (among other things) on his grave."
I would not go that far...he has a beautiful multi million dollar horse farm...why not pack it in and enjoy life. Donate 2 or 3 million to the T1 fund and smile. That would be a reasonable and fine outcome.
MiningmanI would not go that far...he has a beautiful multi million dollar horse farm...why not pack it in and enjoy life. Donate 2 or 3 million to the T1 fund and smile. That would be a reasonable and fine outcome.
Indeed. On the other hand, it's hard to turn down that kind of money to be a puppet.
I'm fairly certain that it's not EHH who is making these draconian pronouncements - he's just the figurehead for the folks who want to milk CSX dry before moving on to their next victim.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Miningman Sd70M-2 Dude- " To put it mildly I hope that whatever he has is painful. And karma's got a long way to go yet. And I will shortly be joining the line to dance (among other things) on his grave." I would not go that far...he has a beautiful multi million dollar horse farm...why not pack it in and enjoy life. Donate 2 or 3 million to the T1 fund and smile. That would be a reasonable and fine outcome.
After leaving CN we all thought he had packed it in and was enjoying his retirement, having changed CN's culture to one where management and employees were mortal enemies, instead of understanding a bit and working together.
But then he gave up his CN pension and did the same thing to CP. And now CSX (although they were pretty bad already).
And FYI I will be waiting a long time, gotta wait for everyone else already in line...
MiningmanSd70M-2 Dude- " To put it mildly I hope that whatever he has is painful. And karma's got a long way to go yet. And I will shortly be joining the line to dance (among other things) on his grave." I would not go that far...he has a beautiful multi million dollar horse farm...why not pack it in and enjoy life. Donate 2 or 3 million to the T1 fund and smile. That would be a reasonable and fine outcome.
He doesn't understand the concept of happiness only $$$
Maybe he gets joy and fulfillment from being a one-man wrecking ball that nobody can stop.
Paul_D_North_JrGo look at the Railroad Performance Measures webpage for CSX: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Without breaking out the calculator, here's what I see: Total Cars On-Line up about 4% in the last month, and from 3Q16. Train Speed down across the board, except Grain Unit - and Multilevel no longer reported. For All Trains, from 20.8 MPH in 3Q16 and 21.5 in June steadily down to 19.2 MPH for the w/e 7/21. From 3Q16, that's an 8% decrease in speed. Terminal Dwell for Entire Railroad up from 25.7 hrs. in 3Q16 to 28.0 last week = up about 9%. All this may look like "Precision Scheduled Railroading" to EHH, but not to me. These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. The 3Q results will be telling, but best compared year-over-year since there are 2 holiday weeks in the 3Q, but only 1 in the 2Q. - PDN.
Cars On Line - 218,057, up about 1.0% (215,869)
Train Speed (MPH) - 18.7, down from 19.2 (-2.6%)
Terminal Dwell (Hrs.) - 29.3 Hrs., up from 28.0 (+4.6%)
As I said a week ago above: These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row.
had a southbound on the A&WP sub south of Atlanta that had three cars with very noticible flat spots. Will that rapidly cause rail to go bad ?
blue streak 1had a southbound on the A&WP sub south of Atlanta that had three cars with very noticible flat spots. Will that rapidly cause rail to go bad ?
With current summertime temperatures flat spots, while not helping rail longevity, are generally not catastrophic for rail. When the temperature gets well below freezing it is another story. The edge of the flat spots can act like a chisel when impacting the top of the rail and potentiall set a 'break mark' that under continued stresses can result in a broken rail. Warm rail has more resiliance to impacts than does very cold rail.
CSX rules currently state that a train that leaves on two track occupancy circuits (and they need not be consecutive) is to make a controlled stop and inspect their train for a possible broken wheel.
blue streak 1 had a southbound on the A&WP sub south of Atlanta that had three cars with very noticible flat spots. Will that rapidly cause rail to go bad ?
A rule of thumb I've heard is if you can hear the flat spot seven cars away - it's significant... Of course, there are specific rules.
If what were happening to CSX were not so sadly tragic, it would be the height of hilarious irony to read the gleeful postings of folks so opposed to regulations and the government welcoming a DSO from the STB.
"Hatred trumps ideology?"
BaltACD . . . CSX rules currently state that a train that leaves on two track occupancy circuits (and they need not be consecutive) is to make a controlled stop and inspect their train for a possible broken wheel. . . .
Paul_D_North_Jr BaltACD . . . CSX rules currently state that a train that leaves on two track occupancy circuits (and they need not be consecutive) is to make a controlled stop and inspect their train for a possible broken wheel. . . . Meaning "leaves 'On' two Track Occupancy Lights (TOLs) ? The theory being that each TOL that's On' might indicate a broken rail, which could be caused an 'open' or incompete circuit and hence the TOL to be On ? - PDN.
Meaning "leaves 'On' two Track Occupancy Lights (TOLs) ? The theory being that each TOL that's On' might indicate a broken rail, which could be caused an 'open' or incompete circuit and hence the TOL to be On ?
My experience was that about 90% of the track circuits that were left on behind trains were found to be either broken rails or pull-a-parts. Thus a 'individual train' that leaves on two (or more) track circuits behind it MAY have some wheel defect that is causing track defects that are affecting signals.
We did have one train that did have a broken wheel, in cold weather, that broke rail at six different locations within the limits of a single track circuit.
SMART replies to Harrison
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-union-rips-harrison-apology.html
schlimm"Hatred trumps ideology?"
Frankly, after reading Fred Frailey's "CSX Follies" I was left with the strong impression that EHH and our President have very similar leadership/operational styles and seem headed for similar, predictable results.
schlimmit would be the height of hilarious irony to read the gleeful postings of folks so opposed to regulations and the government welcoming a DSO from the STB.
Further irony with Schumer, Booker et al. cutting off their noses to spite their faces by keeping Batory from confirmation ... because they want to keep Gateway financing prioritized. As if a Trump administration wouldn't prioritize train service to Manhattan!
BaltACD SMART replies to Harrison http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-union-rips-harrison-apology.html
I have added the bold emphasis in this from the article linked above.
What exactly are Harrison and SMART talking about in this exchange? The union says they refuse to accept responsibility for the disruptions. I would like to know whether they had nothing to do with the disruptions –or- whether they caused the disruptions, but feel justified because they were not allowed to have input on operational changes.
If it is the latter, then is this what EHH is referring to when he says a few have pushed back and continue to do so?
"The pace of change at CSX has been extremely rapid," Harrison wrote August 1 in a letter of apology to customers, "and while most people at the company have embraced the new plan, unfortunately, a few have pushed back and continue to do so. This resistance to change has resulted in some service disruptions."
In an August 3 letter to Harrison obtained by Railway Age, SMART, the International Association of Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers, which represents CSX operating employees, wrote, “The Organization refuses to accept responsibility for disruptions that negatively affect the customers when we have no input on operational changes. We receive minimal, and in most cases, no communication from any department about the significant changes being implemented almost daily.”
Euclid BaltACD SMART replies to Harrison http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-union-rips-harrison-apology.html What exactly are Harrison and SMART talking about in this exchange? The union says they refuse to accept responsibility for the disruptions. I would like to know whether they had nothing to do with the disruptions –or- whether they caused the disruptions, but feel justified because they were not allowed to have input on operational changes.
I have bolded the correct answer. What the Union is saying is that the person/group who created/initiated a change should be held responsible for the consequences of that change.
EHH is probably also referring to certain low or mid-level managers in addition to unionized employees, but a classic from his past playbook at CN and CP is to ignore sections of collective agreements (a binding legal document signed by both sides) that he does not like. Anyone who points this out and/or grieves a violation of the agreement will most likely be viewed by EHH as 'resisting' him.
But the real underlying reason is that he is trying to shift blame for the service failures to someone else.
SD70M-2Dude Euclid BaltACD SMART replies to Harrison http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-union-rips-harrison-apology.html What exactly are Harrison and SMART talking about in this exchange? The union says they refuse to accept responsibility for the disruptions. I would like to know whether they had nothing to do with the disruptions –or- whether they caused the disruptions, but feel justified because they were not allowed to have input on operational changes. I have bolded the correct answer. What the Union is saying is that the person/group who created/initiated a change should be held responsible for the consequences of that change. EHH is probably also referring to certain low or mid-level managers in addition to unionized employees, but a classic from his past playbook at CN and CP is to ignore sections of collective agreements (a binding legal document signed by both sides) that he does not like. Anyone who points this out and/or grieves a violation of the agreement will most likely be viewed by EHH as 'resisting' him. But the real underlying reason is that he is trying to shift blame for the service failures to someone else.
Here is what I would like to know:
What exactly were the service disruptions and how were they caused?
Obviously both SMART and EHH know the answer to that question, so why do they not explain it for us since it is a critical part of the story that has been made public?
Euclid SD70M-2Dude Euclid BaltACD SMART replies to Harrison http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/csx-union-rips-harrison-apology.html What exactly are Harrison and SMART talking about in this exchange? The union says they refuse to accept responsibility for the disruptions. I would like to know whether they had nothing to do with the disruptions –or- whether they caused the disruptions, but feel justified because they were not allowed to have input on operational changes. I have bolded the correct answer. What the Union is saying is that the person/group who created/initiated a change should be held responsible for the consequences of that change. EHH is probably also referring to certain low or mid-level managers in addition to unionized employees, but a classic from his past playbook at CN and CP is to ignore sections of collective agreements (a binding legal document signed by both sides) that he does not like. Anyone who points this out and/or grieves a violation of the agreement will most likely be viewed by EHH as 'resisting' him. But the real underlying reason is that he is trying to shift blame for the service failures to someone else. Here is what I would like to know: What exactly were the service disruptions and how were they caused? Obviously both SMART and EHH know the answer to that question, so why do they not explain it for us since it is a critical part of the story that has been made public?
The metrics of cars on line and terminal dwell and reduced train speeds tell it all.
Close most of the most efficient car sorting centers (hump yards) and cars don't get sorted at the same speed as before. Change the operating plan to haul cars hundreds of miles out of route to get to the remaining sorting centers to be sorted into trains for their destination.
Once you do the previous paragraph's two actions things begin to snowball and the disruptions continue to get worse over time.
SMART did not close the Hump Yards, SMART does not design the Operating Plan. SMART employees do as they are instructed by Management. A failed Operating Plan is Managements baby.
Over my employed years I saw many Management's turn fluid operations into a constipated mess - both on local areas and on the system as a whole. For the most part Management would never admit their mistakes until they were replaced and a different Management was put in place and changes were made in the Operating Plan.
What EHH seems to be saying is that union personnel have been dragging their feet with train operations in order to gum things up and making it look like EEH’s plan is failing; all for the spiteful purpose of getting even with EEH for cutting labor and downsizing the plant.
When the union says they can’t take responsibility for the problem because they had no input on the plan, it does not exactly sound like the kind of rebuttal I would expect from being accused of intentionally causing disruptions.
So I am looking for an explanation of exactly what did happen in the way of disruptions and why EHH says the union members caused them.
It's all speculation at this point. It might be an irrational plan by EHH or it could be sabotage by workers' feeling threatened (there's a long history of that since the early days of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th C.). Both explanations are possible, even plausible, but we may never know the answer.
EuclidWhat EHH seems to be saying is that union personnel have been dragging their feet with train operations in order to gum things up and making it look like EEH’s plan is failing; all for the spiteful purpose of getting even with EEH for cutting labor and downsizing the plant. When the union says they can’t take responsibility for the problem because they had no input on the plan, it does not exactly sound like the kind of rebuttal I would expect from being accused of intentionally causing disruptions. So I am looking for an explanation of exactly what did happen in the way of disruptions and why EHH says the union members caused them.
When the plan is bad - the one that formed the plan always blame those that are trying to make the plan work. EHH cannot accept responsibility for his own failures.
Employees want to do their job and want to do that job safely. They want to go from A to Z as quickly as conditions permit. They want to switch X track correctly and as quickly as conditions will permit. When the plan make those conditions slower or impossible to overcome who is responsible for the plan.
schlimm It's all speculation at this point. It might be an irrational plan by EHH or it could be sabotage by workers' feeling threatened (there's a long history of that since the early days of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th C.). Both explanations are possible, even plausible, but we may never know the answer.
BaltACD Euclid What EHH seems to be saying is that union personnel have been dragging their feet with train operations in order to gum things up and making it look like EEH’s plan is failing; all for the spiteful purpose of getting even with EEH for cutting labor and downsizing the plant. When the union says they can’t take responsibility for the problem because they had no input on the plan, it does not exactly sound like the kind of rebuttal I would expect from being accused of intentionally causing disruptions. So I am looking for an explanation of exactly what did happen in the way of disruptions and why EHH says the union members caused them. When the plan is bad - the one that formed the plan always blame those that are trying to make the plan work. EHH cannot accept responsibility for his own failures. Employees want to do their job and want to do that job safely. They want to go from A to Z as quickly as conditions permit. They want to switch X track correctly and as quickly as conditions will permit. When the plan make those conditions slower or impossible to overcome who is responsible for the plan.
Euclid What EHH seems to be saying is that union personnel have been dragging their feet with train operations in order to gum things up and making it look like EEH’s plan is failing; all for the spiteful purpose of getting even with EEH for cutting labor and downsizing the plant. When the union says they can’t take responsibility for the problem because they had no input on the plan, it does not exactly sound like the kind of rebuttal I would expect from being accused of intentionally causing disruptions. So I am looking for an explanation of exactly what did happen in the way of disruptions and why EHH says the union members caused them.
Well I hope that is true. But one has to be naive or ignorant of history to not know that industrial-labor relations in the US have a long, contentious and bloody history. Folks naturally want to hold on to what they have. And some will try to take that away, in the name of bigger profits, while others will try to gum up the works to stop that from costing them jobs and/or pay. None of us know (or are saying) what the truth is with EHH and at CSX.
BaltACD When the plan is bad - the one that formed the plan always blame those that are trying to make the plan work. EHH cannot accept responsibility for his own failures. Employees want to do their job and want to do that job safely. They want to go from A to Z as quickly as conditions permit. They want to switch X track correctly and as quickly as conditions will permit. When the plan make those conditions slower or impossible to overcome who is responsible for the plan.
That is one of two possibilities. The other possibility is that when the plan goes against someone else’s self- interest, that person seeks to discredit the plan in any way possible. If that person is the one who executes the plan, it is easy for that person to do so in bad faith with the objective of causing damage that can then be blamed on the plan itself, in order to create the illusion that the plan is bad.
So, being that there are these two possible and conflicting explanations for what is described in the article, I would not assume either one is correct unless it were shown to be so.
As others have pointed out, the resistance to change does not come from the lower ranks, since they are required to do what they are told. There will be some inertia from the middle managers, but often their problem is that EHH waved his magic wand and told them the results he wants without giving them time and resources to develop a new plan to achieve them. In fact, those middle managers rarely have much in the way of real authority that would enable them to make the changes they are accused of resisting.
On CP the Alyth hump was closed, and now the yard sees a lot of block swapping between trains. But those blocks need to be created somewhere, which meant yards at intermediate terminals now had to do a lot more train marshalling, often in a yard that needed upgrading to handle the increased workload after years of minimal maintenance. A track layout little changed from the steam era and short trains usually needs substantial rebuilding at the throats if it is to operate efficiently. It all takes forethought, time and money, if the change is to take place smoothly, but instead EHH expects it to be done instantly. When the desired miracle does not occur, somebody must be found to take the blame.
Trying hard to see as Paul Harvey would descibe it as "The rest of the story'.
Harrison is on a mission to benefit Paul Hilal's mission of increasing the value of CSX stock abd the rewards offered him are far above the compensation offered many Ceo's. His demands for the $84 million regardless of his success are beyond the palle. The man has gonads to think he is that valuable to any corporation.. IMO, he is on an ego trip.
CSX will suffer becaus of him. The rank and file who keep the railroad fluid on a day to day basis are only following orders.
Flat switching is slower than Humping.
Closing Hump yards is false economy - you save the costs directly associated with hump, however you increase dwell as the same number of switches have to be performed, however at a slower rate and car hire is calculated on a hourly basis. If 1000 cars were moved through a Hump yard on a daily basis and now those same 1000 cars move through the same location without the hump in two days, where is the savings. Secondly, if tomorrow's 1000 cars arrive before today's 1000 cars have been switched and dispatched there is no place for tomorrow's cars in the yard, so those cars get held out and occupy Main Track space - Main Track space that all the other trains that operate through the former Hump Yard location must be navigated around (remember the track blocks where trains get held are larger than the size of a individual train and the holding location may be dictated by the existance of highway crossings at grade that can affect holding multiple trains in that track segment) Holding trains creates the further problem, do you keep the crew on the train while it is being held - if you do, there 12 hour clock is running and will expire; if you don't the train won't move until another crew is secured and placed on the train. The crew that was originally on the train won't be available to be put on another train until 12 hours after their tie up time. The power that is on the held out train is not available to dispatch outbound trains until the power actually arrives the terminal. While you can, if you desire, pull the power from the head out held train, the power on trains behind the lead train are trapped until the lead held train is moved. If power is removed from the lead held out train, power and a crew will have to be secured to move the lead held out train when the terminal has space for it. Start holding trains from each direction out of the terminal and it doesn't take long to end up with 30-40-50 miles or more of single tracking through the terminal.
EHH has taken a K Mart watch that was working and keeping time - ripped out a number of the gears that have made the watch work and now wonders why it doesn't work and keep time.
cx500As others have pointed out, the resistance to change does not come from the lower ranks, since they are required to do what they are told. There will be some inertia from the middle managers, but often their problem is that EHH waved his magic wand and told them the results he wants without giving them time and resources to develop a new plan to achieve them. In fact, those middle managers rarely have much in the way of real authority that would enable them to make the changes they are accused of resisting.
Harrison did not say who he was referring to when he accused them of pushing back and resisting change. But it was the union who responded as though it was their members who Harrison was referring to. So what employees would that include?
Euclid cx500 As others have pointed out, the resistance to change does not come from the lower ranks, since they are required to do what they are told. There will be some inertia from the middle managers, but often their problem is that EHH waved his magic wand and told them the results he wants without giving them time and resources to develop a new plan to achieve them. In fact, those middle managers rarely have much in the way of real authority that would enable them to make the changes they are accused of resisting. Harrison did not say who he was referring to when he accused them of pushing back and resisting change. But it was the union who responded as though it was their members who Harrison was referring to. So what employees would that include?
cx500 As others have pointed out, the resistance to change does not come from the lower ranks, since they are required to do what they are told. There will be some inertia from the middle managers, but often their problem is that EHH waved his magic wand and told them the results he wants without giving them time and resources to develop a new plan to achieve them. In fact, those middle managers rarely have much in the way of real authority that would enable them to make the changes they are accused of resisting.
Any and Every body except EHH. Only EHH does everything right. Legend in his own mind.
Euclid Harrison did not say who he was referring to when he accused them of pushing back and resisting change. But it was the union who responded as though it was their members who Harrison was referring to. So what employees would that include?
We don't know, since Harrison did not specify. He himself probably doesn't "know" but since the railroad is a mess it must be someone other than Himself.
Since Harrison was so imprecise, the unions felt it necessary to redirect the blame back up the chain of command where it properly belongs. Too many people would automatically interpret Harrison's reference to be towards the lowest ranks, and that was probably intentional. (If he actually believes it; if so he is delusional.)
I do not know whether Harrison’s accusation is true, but I think he made a big mistake by not explaining who he was referring to and what they did.
EuclidI do not know whether Harrison’s accusation is true, but I think he made a big mistake by not explaining who he was referring to and what they did.
His mistake is thinking he knew more about running CSX from his experiences at CP, CN and IC and without taking any time to learn what made CSX operate, back when it WAS OPERATING. The situation CSX is in now PREVENTS any understanding of the operation.
When you caught only a glimpse of
and you transformed it into
it is difficult to figure out what is necessary to get back to the original and improve upon it.
cx500We don't know, since Harrison did not specify. He himself probably doesn't "know" but since the railroad is a mess it must be someone other than Himself.
As I noted on another thread, it's my opinion that EHH is simply a figurehead. There are others poring over the books, looking for ways to make money for the gamblers - er - stockholders.
As such, I doubt he's the one making the pronouncements and calling for cuts/closures. It's his handlers that are making those decisions.
Trying to deflect blame is an age-old tactic. It's less likely to work today, given social media, etc, which allows an almost instantaneous pushback, instead of having to wait for the next news cycle.
EHH took the CSX from a nice workable F350 that needed a tune up and some other minor work to a Model T that needs a new set of Rings has a broken rear end gear and also had a hole in the radiatior.
Some have noted that EHH seems to want a railroad where traffic levels are the same day in/day out. A "conveyor belt" operation with just enough physical plant and rolling stock to meet that type of operation. (I've read that EHH supposedly once said, when at CN, that he could make twice the money on half the traffic.) To get there, some business that he currently has may need to go. Maybe this is just part of the long range plan. Let service deteriorate and drive off that business. What remains will be rail dependent and captive to CSX.
The problem with whatever happens to CSX ultimately can affect the rest of the industry. Surely some of the business that switched to trucks was interline. A car loaded on CSX may have gone to one of the other class ones or a short line.
Many CSX customers have complained to the STB about the lousy service. Nothing surprising there. Besides complaining you can expect some will push congress to legislate some form of open access. (The one coal company that complained about CSX said as much.) If that happens, it will be industry wide. EHH's actions at CSX may hurt the rest of us long after he's gone.
tree68 cx500 We don't know, since Harrison did not specify. He himself probably doesn't "know" but since the railroad is a mess it must be someone other than Himself. As I noted on another thread, it's my opinion that EHH is simply a figurehead. There are others poring over the books, looking for ways to make money for the gamblers - er - stockholders. As such, I doubt he's the one making the pronouncements and calling for cuts/closures. It's his handlers that are making those decisions. Trying to deflect blame is an age-old tactic. It's less likely to work today, given social media, etc, which allows an almost instantaneous pushback, instead of having to wait for the next news cycle.
cx500 We don't know, since Harrison did not specify. He himself probably doesn't "know" but since the railroad is a mess it must be someone other than Himself.
Larry,
I think your observation may be 'spot on'. Harrison was hired by Hilal to accomplish a task and he is working at that. The mission as I see it is not to make CSX a better railroad but it is to increase the stock price so the investors benefit; all else be damned in the name of profits for the investors.
I'm of the belief Harrison has met his match. CSX is nothing like the railroads he has dealt with in the past and his slashing everything he sees as money losing will result in CSX forefiting a lot of business that may be marginal but still profitable. I have said it previously but CSX is not a straight line railroad that will accomodate scheduled arrival and departure *** the airlines have. Harrison has a lot of branches to deal with that don't fit into his schedule. If he thinks the coal loadouts will comply with his decree they should work 24/7 including Sundays he needs an awakening.
The railroads run24/7. Is Harrison's brain on board with that? i have my doubts.IMO he is beig used as a tool by Hilal.
Hmm.. so if I torch MY business and/or run it into the ground I as the sole owner and investor stand to benefit? The value of the 50 shares that constitute all the outstanding shares in my business will go up? Wow.. I may be richer than I thought!
If only that were true.. but.. in reality the shareholders have a vested interest in seeing the business succeed. True, some shareholders want immediate returns, and when that doesn't happen they sell their shares and go somewhere else, leaving the business in the hands of the long term interested shareholders. The shareholders are not the enemy, they own the business and want it to succeed because (and I know this may be hard to believe) there's no money in owning a burned out shell of a business that isn't making any money!
Harrison may or may not succeed at CSX.. yes..CSX is more complex than CN or CP is given its route structure, but Rome wasn't built in a day. How long has he been on the job now? A few months.. It was never going to be a straight shot to the top anyway.. these things take time.
Ulrich Hmm.. so if I torch MY business and/or run it into the ground I as the sole owner and investor stand to benefit? The value of the 50 shares that constitute all the outstanding shares in my business will go up? Wow.. I may be richer than I thought! If only that were true.. but.. in reality the shareholders have a vested interest in seeing the business succeed. True, some shareholders want immediate returns, and when that doesn't happen they sell their shares and go somewhere else, leaving the business in the hands of the long term interested shareholders. The shareholders are not the enemy, they own the business and want it to succeed because (and I know this may be hard to believe) there's no money in owning a burned out shell of a business that isn't making any money! Harrison may or may not succeed at CSX.. yes..CSX is more complex than CN or CP is given its route structure, but Rome wasn't built in a day. How long has he been on the job now? A few months.. It was never going to be a straight shot to the top anyway.. these things take time.
Hilal wants suck as much money as he can out of CSX coffers and he wants it now - as soon as he thinks he sees the bottom of the treasury - he will sell, all the while trumpeting how good the shell of CSX is for the marks he has lined up to buy Mantle Ridges shares of CSX - classic pump and dump!
BaltACDHilal wants suck as much money as he can out of CSX coffers and he wants it now - as soon as he thinks he sees the bottom of the treasury - he will sell, all the while trumpeting how good the shell of CSX is for the marks he has lined up to buy Mantle Ridges shares of CSX - classic pump and dump!
This.
Have absolutely no idea what is going on but ---
The A&WP sub suddenly has almost no traffic today except for a few BNSF haulage and one manifest with a bunch of intermodals in the consist. If any one has info pass it on to all of us.
How exactly does that work? How does Hilal suck money out of CSX by tying up the railroad, driving shippers away, and destroying the business?
Euclid BaltACD Hilal wants suck as much money as he can out of CSX coffers and he wants it now - as soon as he thinks he sees the bottom of the treasury - he will sell, all the while trumpeting how good the shell of CSX is for the marks he has lined up to buy Mantle Ridges shares of CSX - classic pump and dump! How exactly does that work? How does Hilal suck money out of CSX by tying up the railroad, driving shippers away, and destroying the business?
BaltACD Hilal wants suck as much money as he can out of CSX coffers and he wants it now - as soon as he thinks he sees the bottom of the treasury - he will sell, all the while trumpeting how good the shell of CSX is for the marks he has lined up to buy Mantle Ridges shares of CSX - classic pump and dump!
Sharp pencil work on the books - kick all the cash out in dividends - sell out before the rest of the marks discover they have been taken and only have the shell of the company left. Classic corporate con.
Gee, the last I looked, EHH's former railroads are all still in business and very prosperous in spite of all the 'end of the world' lamentations voiced back then, mostly by employees.
schlimm Gee, the last I looked, EHH's former railroads are all still in business and very prosperous in spite of all the 'end of the world' lamentations voiced back then, mostly by employees.
Yeah.. good point!
It's really very simple: you pump up the stock by attracting more investors to buy in. And you do that by orchestrating massive chaos to make it look as if no one knows what they're doing. It's a well known fact that chaos, drifting management, angry employees, and fleeing customers ATTRACT longterm investors who drive up the price of the stock. And then when things go half way back to normal, you sell it! Quick!! before anyone else notices that the business is back on an even keel.
Come on now, if it was YOUR money.. would you rather invest it in a calm boring business with steady dividends and growth (YAAAAAWWWWNNN).. or would you prefer a caldron of anger, ineptitude, and absolute chaos? There you go..
Ah. The classic "Pump and Dump."
Ulrich It's really very simple: you pump up the stock by attracting more investors to buy in. And you do that by orchestrating massive chaos to make it look as if no one knows what they're doing. It's a well known fact that chaos, drifting management, angry employees, and fleeing customers ATTRACT longterm investors who drive up the price of the stock. And then when things go half way back to normal, you sell it! Quick!! before anyone else notices that the business is back on an even keel.
Ulrich,
I made a mistake in the extent of what I quoted of you, which I now see is satire as your story above is totally backwards.
For those of you who belive the quote above, and it seems that at least some of you do, please look at a year duration stock price chart of CSX as you read the following.
Mantle Ridge determined that CSX was under valued and bought roughly 5% of the stock. Then they ran up the stock price up by about 1/3 by announcing that Mr. Fixit, EHH would take over and straighten CSX out. Having EHH's payments approved by the stockholders, they could have sold out and taken nice profits, a classic "pump and dump". I have no idea whether they did or not.
For the sake of discussion, assume they believed their own PR, always a bad idea, and held their position. The current operational mess at CSX will show in third quarter earnings. The institutional investors, who in my opinion overbought on the EHH story, are generally smart guys and gals and know the operational mess is a bad thing. Stock price is now trending down, but is still above pre EHH announcement levels.
Wrecking the railroad works only if Mantle sold out on the EHH bounce and is now shorting CSX stock. The bounce only happened because investors believed EHH would improve CSX earnings. Mantle had to believe in EHH going into this, just look at his record of improving earnings, which has been outstanding. That investors believed in EHH is self evident.
The facts on the ground today indicate that earnings will take a big hit third quarter. Only if EHH fixes the railroad operationally can he improve earnings which in turn will support a higher stock price. The question is how long the stockholders and the Board will support EHH, hoping for good operational news, in the face of the current mess.
Your guess about that is as good as mine.
Mac McCulloch
Here is how I see it. HH was good for IC, where he learned his "system," applicable to CN and CP because of really simple rout structures; but his is just not applicable to CSX (or to NS, either), which is a much much more comlicated system to organize and operate. So he made the same mistake that UP made when swallowing SP. Fire all who know the ropes and bring in a bunch of geniuses who haven't a clue about the special requirements of the territories served.
After HH leaves, some people who are willing to learn will join some who know and some who will return; and in six months CSX will be back in good shape. Just like UP recovered.
The other possiblity. HH will learn that his "system" just is not applicable to CSX, which by the nature of its territory, route structure, and market, must be more demand responsive than CP and CN. Like a short-line or regional railroad must be very very demand responsive.
PNWRMNM Ulrich It's really very simple: you pump up the stock by attracting more investors to buy in. And you do that by orchestrating massive chaos to make it look as if no one knows what they're doing. It's a well known fact that chaos, drifting management, angry employees, and fleeing customers ATTRACT longterm investors who drive up the price of the stock. And then when things go half way back to normal, you sell it! Quick!! before anyone else notices that the business is back on an even keel. Ulrich, I made a mistake in the extent of what I quoted of you, which I now see is satire as your story above is totally backwards. For those of you who belive the quote above, and it seems that at least some of you do, please look at a year duration stock price chart of CSX as you read the following.
I understand that Ulrich was using satire to offset the argument that EHH is destroying CSX as a way to plunder its wealth, but that does seem to be very widely believed by the anti-EHH faction. That is why I asked BaltACD to elaborate on how the plundering is possible.
PNWRMNM Ulrich It's really very simple: you pump up the stock by attracting more investors to buy in. And you do that by orchestrating massive chaos to make it look as if no one knows what they're doing. It's a well known fact that chaos, drifting management, angry employees, and fleeing customers ATTRACT longterm investors who drive up the price of the stock. And then when things go half way back to normal, you sell it! Quick!! before anyone else notices that the business is back on an even keel. Ulrich, I made a mistake in the extent of what I quoted of you, which I now see is satire as your story above is totally backwards. Mac McCulloch
Yes Mac.. some late night satire from a tired brain. Who knows what tonight bodes.. maybe some CSX poetry. Someone may have to pay me not to.
UlrichYes Mac.. some late night satire from a tired brain. Who knows what tonight bodes.. maybe some CSX poetry. Someone may have to pay me not to.
The check is in the mail.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-csx-layoffs-chicago-barr-switching-yard-0810-biz-20170809-story.html
Need some observations. Here the A&WP sub appears to still have less general traffic than before the changes. A further note the BNSF haulage trains seem to be much fewer. Does anyone know or have seen if some of the BNSF haulage trains are going on NS Birmingham - Atanta ?
The past few days CSX has not blocked Howell interlocking as much to the Crescent's 19 & 20. But 19 & 20 are taking more delays BHM <> ATL on NS. That is why wondering if some BNSF traffic on NS ?
Paul_D_North_Jr Paul_D_North_Jr Go look at the Railroad Performance Measures webpage for CSX: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Without breaking out the calculator, here's what I see: Total Cars On-Line up about 4% in the last month, and from 3Q16. Train Speed down across the board, except Grain Unit - and Multilevel no longer reported. For All Trains, from 20.8 MPH in 3Q16 and 21.5 in June steadily down to 19.2 MPH for the w/e 7/21. From 3Q16, that's an 8% decrease in speed. Terminal Dwell for Entire Railroad up from 25.7 hrs. in 3Q16 to 28.0 last week = up about 9%. All this may look like "Precision Scheduled Railroading" to EHH, but not to me. These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. The 3Q results will be telling, but best compared year-over-year since there are 2 holiday weeks in the 3Q, but only 1 in the 2Q. - PDN. Based on the W/E 7/28 data, the downward spiral for CSX - compared to itself, not others - continues from the previous week: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Cars On Line - 218,057, up about 1.0% (215,869) Train Speed (MPH) - 18.7, down from 19.2 (-2.6%) Terminal Dwell (Hrs.) - 29.3 Hrs., up from 28.0 (+4.6%) As I said a week ago above: These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. - PDN.
Paul_D_North_Jr Go look at the Railroad Performance Measures webpage for CSX: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Without breaking out the calculator, here's what I see: Total Cars On-Line up about 4% in the last month, and from 3Q16. Train Speed down across the board, except Grain Unit - and Multilevel no longer reported. For All Trains, from 20.8 MPH in 3Q16 and 21.5 in June steadily down to 19.2 MPH for the w/e 7/21. From 3Q16, that's an 8% decrease in speed. Terminal Dwell for Entire Railroad up from 25.7 hrs. in 3Q16 to 28.0 last week = up about 9%. All this may look like "Precision Scheduled Railroading" to EHH, but not to me. These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. The 3Q results will be telling, but best compared year-over-year since there are 2 holiday weeks in the 3Q, but only 1 in the 2Q. - PDN.
Based on the W/E 7/28 data, the downward spiral for CSX - compared to itself, not others - continues from the previous week:
W/E 8/4 data - not much overall change from last week - no worse, but no better either.
Cars On Line - 218,128 (same - was 218,057)
Train Speed (MPH) - 18.7 (same - was 18.7) Within that, Intermodal slowed from 26.5 to 25.9 (-2.3%), but Coal Unit speeds increased (!) from 16.0 to 17.0, and Grain Unit from 14.7 to 17.1.
Terminal Dwell (Hrs.) - 29.4 Hrs. (up slightly from 29.3) A mixed bag - some 3 to 5 hrs. better, others 3 to 5 hrs. worse - but Nashville, TN is still the worst, up from 66.5 to 71.9 hrs. = 3 days !!
While I don't particularly like the source of this article - its reporting rings true to what I am seeing and hearing from my still working contacts
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/10/csxr-s08.html
The Baltimore and Florence Division Dispatchers are being relocated to Jacksonville effective Sept. 1. The company has yet to initiate any relocation negotiations for the employees affected. 'Get there the best way you can or be history!' is the tact the company is taking. Home? The company doesn't care that you now have to do 'something' with the biggest investment a young family has ever made - on their own in a short time frame. [sarcasem]A real way to build company loyality. [/sarcasm]
BaltACD While I don't particularly like the source of this article - its reporting rings true to what I am seeing and hearing from my still working contacts http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/10/csxr-s08.html
Backtracking a little bit, this quote from the article provides some pretty good evidence as to who is truly responsible for the congestion and service failures at CSX:
"A railroad worker writes on the railroaders’ blog, “CSX Sucks,” that at first, employees were added to the crews at their hump yard and the amount of freight processed initially rose, becoming second highest in the system. “After a time, though, you all fired all our managers, cut jobs, piled the freight in (1,000 cars every 8 hours,) and expected us to move it with half the manpower. After it was all said and done, we were told we were failures and we would be shut off.
He continued, “Men are constantly threatened, with their jobs on the line. We are told to switch cars like back in the 1950's when injury/fatality rates were high and it is just a matter of time before we have a headline injury or fatality. Men are getting cussed up one side and down the other, and shown no absolute professionalism in the least little way.""
This same story happened while EHH was at CN and CP. It took until last year for CN to truly start recovering in several locations, and CP still has a long way to go.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/08/15/amtrak-train-delays-csx/569869001/
Paul_D_North_Jr Paul_D_North_Jr Paul_D_North_Jr Go look at the Railroad Performance Measures webpage for CSX: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Without breaking out the calculator, here's what I see: Total Cars On-Line up about 4% in the last month, and from 3Q16. Train Speed down across the board, except Grain Unit - and Multilevel no longer reported. For All Trains, from 20.8 MPH in 3Q16 and 21.5 in June steadily down to 19.2 MPH for the w/e 7/21. From 3Q16, that's an 8% decrease in speed. Terminal Dwell for Entire Railroad up from 25.7 hrs. in 3Q16 to 28.0 last week = up about 9%. All this may look like "Precision Scheduled Railroading" to EHH, but not to me. These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. The 3Q results will be telling, but best compared year-over-year since there are 2 holiday weeks in the 3Q, but only 1 in the 2Q. - PDN. Based on the W/E 7/28 data, the downward spiral for CSX - compared to itself, not others - continues from the previous week: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/RPM/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx Cars On Line - 218,057, up about 1.0% (215,869) Train Speed (MPH) - 18.7, down from 19.2 (-2.6%) Terminal Dwell (Hrs.) - 29.3 Hrs., up from 28.0 (+4.6%) As I said a week ago above: These metrics are all headed in the wrong direction, by significant amounts, and for several weeks in a row. - PDN. Cars On Line - 218,128 (same - was 218,057) Train Speed (MPH) - 18.7 (same - was 18.7) Within that, Intermodal slowed from 26.5 to 25.9 (-2.3%), but Coal Unit speeds increased (!) from 16.0 to 17.0, and Grain Unit from 14.7 to 17.1. Terminal Dwell (Hrs.) - 29.4 Hrs. (up slightly from 29.3) A mixed bag - some 3 to 5 hrs. better, others 3 to 5 hrs. worse - but Nashville, TN is still the worst, up from 66.5 to 71.9 hrs. = 3 days !! - PDN.
Cars On-Line - down a few (278).
Train Speed - down from 18.7 to 18.4 MPH - 1.6% in just 1 week, this is not good !!
Terminal Dwell- up from 29.4 to 29.5 hrs.
BaltACD While I don't particularly like the source of this article - its reporting rings true to what I am seeing and hearing from my still working contacts http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/10/csxr-s08.html The Baltimore and Florence Division Dispatchers are being relocated to Jacksonville effective Sept. 1. The company has yet to initiate any relocation negotiations for the employees affected. 'Get there the best way you can or be history!' is the tact the company is taking. Home? The company doesn't care that you now have to do 'something' with the biggest investment a young family has ever made - on their own in a short time frame. [sarcasem]A real way to build company loyality. [/sarcasm]
Chuck,
What you say rings true. I recall when Harrison took over CN. He made it plain then that employees should be afraid of losing their jobs for the slightest infraction. At both CN and CP someone had to clean up the mess he left those roads in. Keith Creel is still busy doing that.
Bringing in his supporters from CN emphaises to CSX emphasises his desire to please Paul Hilal only empathises his endeavor to raise stock prices so he can cash in and retire in a grand style and leave his heirs wealthy. IMO, Harrison has foregone running a railroad in favor of personal gain. IMO, it is pure unadulteraded greed.
While he did good things at CN his performance since is questionable. IMO he will leave CSX in shambles and blame it on the employees.
CSX, if he left this minute, is already in shambles.
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