Trains.com

Hunter Harrison

15731 views
180 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:56 PM

I was somewhat amused by the statement in the training film that brake sticks no longer expire; they now have eternal life?.

Johnny

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:20 PM

Also, I note that the film mentions 3 point protection. Something else that EHH has (as I understand it, has or wants to do away with) Back to the dark ages.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Electroliner 1935

Also, I note that the film mentions 3 point protection. Something else that EHH has (as I understand it, has or wants to do away with) Back to the dark ages.

Safety takes time and costs money.  Both things that take away from the bottom line...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:19 PM

tree68

 

 
Electroliner 1935

Also, I note that the film mentions 3 point protection. Something else that EHH has (as I understand it, has or wants to do away with) Back to the dark ages.

 

Safety takes time and costs money.  Both things that take away from the bottom line...

 

 

But they can add to the life of the employees involved.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:42 PM

Deggesty
But they can add to the life of the employees involved.

Employees cost money, too....     [/sarcasm]

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:46 PM

Deggesty
I was somewhat amused by the statement in the training film that brake sticks no longer expire; they now have eternal life?.

Brakesticks used to be good for (I think) 2 years.   When I'm on the ground in the yard, I used mine heavily, so you usually were lucky to get 2 years out of them.  Usually the locking mechanism wore out.

And yeah, they are not cheap, but having a RRer slip off a car and getting FELA involved isn't cheap, either.  But they are no Bed and Bath toy, I can assure you.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:48 PM

Ulrich
So why not mount the wheel further down and closer to the edge of the car? The brake wheel on gondolas, flatcars, and well cars is necessarily closer to the ground... what's the reason for mounting them so high on hoppers and boxcars?

I'm guessing part of it has to do with leverage of hte bell crank and stuff... other reason may be to keep the casual person from walking by and playing with the handbrake wheel if it's in easy reach?  People do have a bad habit of touching things.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:37 PM

zugmann

 

 
Ulrich
So why not mount the wheel further down and closer to the edge of the car? The brake wheel on gondolas, flatcars, and well cars is necessarily closer to the ground... what's the reason for mounting them so high on hoppers and boxcars?

 

I'm guessing part of it has to do with leverage of hte bell crank and stuff... other reason may be to keep the casual person from walking by and playing with the handbrake wheel if it's in easy reach?  People do have a bad habit of touching things.

 

Not to mention that it's against the rules to operate a brake wheel on the end of the car from the ground.  

Jeff 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:54 PM

jeffhergert
Not to mention that it's against the rules to operate a brake wheel on the end of the car from the ground. Jeff

Of course if they were lower...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:08 PM

zugmann

 

 
jeffhergert
Not to mention that it's against the rules to operate a brake wheel on the end of the car from the ground. Jeff

 

Of course if they were lower...

 

It would probably still be against the rules.

Jeff   

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:20 PM

jeffhergert
 
zugmann
 
jeffhergert
Not to mention that it's against the rules to operate a brake wheel on the end of the car from the ground. Jeff 

Of course if they were lower... 

It would probably still be against the rules.

Jeff   

Well since EHH is closing all hump yards lets move the hand brakes back to the top of the cars so the brakeman can control the roll in flat switching as they see either the end of the track or cars approaching.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:32 PM

jeffhergert
It would probably still be against the rules. Jeff

Isn't for most side-mounted ones (our rules).

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2016
  • From: Tennessee, USA
  • 41 posts
Posted by Kielbasa on Sunday, July 23, 2017 2:24 AM

 

According to the Chief Clerk (actually the only one left, but still Chief) who acts like each and every brake stick comes out of her pocket, they cost on the order of $900. Just another thing to carry if you ask me, but I've never had to tie 40 brakes on the side of a mountain.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:44 AM

How can one of those brake sticks cost $900?  From what I can see any good machine shop could produce a workable substitute for a heckuva lot less.  Reminds me of those legendary $500 hammers the Air Force purchased years ago.

If anyone knows I'd love to hear the reason why.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:35 PM

Firelock76

How can one of those brake sticks cost $900?  From what I can see any good machine shop could produce a workable substitute for a heckuva lot less.  Reminds me of those legendary $500 hammers the Air Force purchased years ago.

If anyone knows I'd love to hear the reason why.

 

Capitalism.  I've heard the price being around $350, give or take.  Maybe they receive a discount for large purchases.

Jeff

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:50 PM

    

SD70M-2Dude

 

 
zugmann
jeffhergert
I've read that CSX has also banned the use of brake sticks

Just shows how out of touch this guy is. Unreal.  He does know this isn't 1960 anymore?  No one goes for that "tough guy" railroading BS anymore.

 

 

I'd heard of the old classic brake club, but CN doesn't use these so I had to look up what the newer version was.  For those who are unfamiliar they allow you to reach in and apply/release a handbrake without climbing onto the car (our standard method) or stepping between cars. 

How long have these things been around?  In 6 years of work I've never seen or heard of them.

Image result for railroad brake stick

 

What all does the darned thing do? The mechanisms wear out? What's the dial for? Time & Temp?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:35 PM

Firelock76
How can one of those brake sticks cost $900?  From what I can see any good machine shop could produce a workable substitute for a heckuva lot less.  Reminds me of those legendary $500 hammers the Air Force purchased years ago.

If anyone knows I'd love to hear the reason why.

There are no 'cheap' metal prices any longer.  Brake Sticks have to be made of high grade aluminium or they would be much too heavy to carry around.  Machineing time no longer comes cheap either.  They aren't exactly 'high tech'; but they can't be failure prone or the injuries caused by them would be more expensive to users than the injuries from not using them.  Don't forget, the manufacturer deserves a level of profit over and above the cost of materials and the cost of manufacture.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 23, 2017 4:06 PM

I know, but really.  Jeffhergert's $350 price seems a lot more realistic.

RME
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 2,073 posts
Posted by RME on Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:24 PM

Substituting some actual FBR for speculation:

Here is an actual supply page describing one design ('Tomahawk')

complete with prices to 'the public'.  (Negotiated prices to railroads might be lower, of course; they might also be higher if annoying net-90 price demands etc. by purchasing departments are involved)

The item pictured (apparently copied from the Aldon Web site without attribution) is of a special 'long' model (extends from 67" to 104" to reach those higher wheel locations from outside the 'red zone') and is a bit over $150 more expensive, list price ($662).  Of course, shipping will be on top of this and I did not 'fake an order' to determine what this would be to a particular location.

Here is a revised NS video from 2015 on how to use the brake stick (courtesy of the company that made the video for them):

(Interesting potential pickup line: "Now let's go inspect my brake stick..." Surprise)

The circular thing may be a neodymium magnet to hold the stick on a car side.  Applicable patents for features of the new version of the stick are 8434802, 8469425, and 8469426.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:00 PM

At first I thought this was a spoof...but it's not. 

Dang it...I'm afraid I'm just a wee bit over the hill as they say to use that pickup line, but it's pretty good! 

Very similiar rules as to the use of a scaling bar underground, used on the back to bring down loose. We call it "scaling", some mines in the USA refer to it as "bar down" but we both call it a "scaling bar". 

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:42 PM

Also... it reminds me of a training video we show at the Mine School for 1st year students. It's about your first visit to a fly inn minesite and an orientation of what to expect. Over the years, here and there I pause the video to talk about some feature or explain something. Well our hero is in his assigned room for the night, reading over the rules, which of course he thinks is dumb and wasting his time, and I paused it, starting talking, and my students started laughing. Looking around puzzled I turn to the frozen image and lo and behold there is a huge glass candy/cookie jar next to his bed full of condoms. Goes by real quick in the film, likely never catch it, just happened to pause it at the right place this time. 

Those sneaky producers. Having some fun I suppose. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by NKP guy on Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:17 PM

   I note that this evening Ebay is showing 2 brake sticks of the type we've been talking about for $200 or $229 (used); scabbard (or quiver) not included.

   

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Louisiana
  • 2,310 posts
Posted by Paul of Covington on Monday, July 24, 2017 12:53 AM

   "Rule 1100 (f)[13]"  !!!  How many rules do you guys have to know?!?!

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • 711 posts
Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Monday, July 24, 2017 1:00 AM

Paul of Covington

   "Rule 1100 (f)[13]"  !!!  How many rules do you guys have to know?!?!

Too many Wink.  But seriously though, the rulebook is just a start.  Then there's the railroad's own operating and special instructions, summary bulletins and of course the timetable.  Enough to completely fill a thick and heavy binder that is kept in your grip.

More rules are added every time there is an accident or injury.  Gonna need another binder soon.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,475 posts
Posted by overall on Monday, July 24, 2017 7:04 AM
Those of you who are interested in this subject should read William Vantuono's column on the Railway Age website called "What's Going On At CSX?". It is very well written and timely. I apologize for not knowing how to post a link to it, but you can use goggle. Fred Frailey should probably read it also.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 24, 2017 9:40 AM

I don't know about GCOR, but NORAC 10th edition is available on-line, if you want to get an idea of what we deal with.  

Of course, my grip also carries our timetable, the timetable of the shortline we run over, air brake and train handling rules, safety rules, and the various adenda to the rulebooks and timetables.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 24, 2017 9:46 AM

overall
Those of you who are interested in this subject should read William Vantuono's column on the Railway Age website called "What's Going On At CSX?". It is very well written and timely. I apologize for not knowing how to post a link to it, but you can use goggle. Fred Frailey should probably read it also.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/william-vantuono/whats-going-on-at-csx.html?channel=00

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, July 24, 2017 10:19 AM

overall
Those of you who are interested in this subject should read William Vantuono's column on the Railway Age website called "What's Going On At CSX?". It is very well written and timely. I apologize for not knowing how to post a link to it, but you can use goggle. Fred Frailey should probably read it also.

Frailey is a fan of Harrison. Need I say more? I consider his opinon worthless.

Norm


  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, July 24, 2017 11:55 AM

I showed this article to my boss and asked him what he thought of those cuts and plans. He went got rid of 900 locomotives that would be like us getting rid of our entire drop and hook fleet of trailers. We have close to 550 total trailers in our fleet we offer drop and hook at most outbound shipment points plus on dedicated runs saves time for our drivers. 

Now as for those 2300 employees. When the weather gets bad or if we take a hurricane into the southeast USA how many of them could have been used to get the tracks up and running faster. Let alone his killing helper districts. The first time a train fails to hold on Sandpatch someone's going to be rich. Let alone the clogging of the mainline from having to double that grade.  If possible the board of directors needs to order a full mental workup on Harrison before allowing him to implement his plans anymore. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 24, 2017 12:34 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
If possible the board of directors needs to order a full mental workup on Harrison before allowing him to implement his plans anymore. 

The people controlling EHH, if you will, are only looking at one thing - the return on their investment.  And the sooner, the better.  Minutiea like efficiency, safety, what-have-you, are of little concern to them.  Only the bottom line.

Note also in the article that EHH has also done some other financial sleight of hand tricks at CSX, changing the accounting classification of several items in such a way that they enhance the bottom line, while not actually changing anything.

As for getting rid of your boss's entire drop and hook operation - all you need to account for is the reduction of costs it would engender - no more maintenance, no manpower or fuel costs to do the drops and pickups, etc.  We won't worry about the loss of income until it happens...  By then the in-it-for-the-money investors will have cashed out.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy