Trackside with Trains Vol. 304: "Passengers" is open for voting

[CandOforprogress2]

How do I vote? Mitch Goldman I am expecting a GG1 to come out of the mist

[K. P. Harrier]

Mookie (5-26):

Understood also!  Thanks.

Best wishes,

K.P.

[Mookie]

K. P. Harrier

Murphy Siding (5-26):

Trackside hasn’t been pursued submissions-wise.

edblysard (5-26):

Understood!

Take care, everyone,

K.P.

 

And Mookie?  

[K. P. Harrier]

Murphy Siding (5-26):

Trackside hasn’t been pursued submissions-wise.

edblysard (5-26):

Understood!

Take care, everyone,

K.P.

[Murphy Siding]

 

Holy cow! One of the submissions is from 1971? They should probably tighten up the rules to specific time frames and ambient temperature ranges.

 

[edblysard]

Wow again K.P.,

Losing your favorite forum has you wound up a tad.

I would opine that the Astrology forum went away because it is such a specialized hobby that that public participation and discussion is almost zero, and to understand even a tiny bit of what they discuss you have to be a heavy duty math junkie.

 

As for two types of people, I find that there are laid back mellow yellow folks, and up tight panty wads.

 

Seriously, it sounds like you have (or are creating) an issue with there being themes for the contest.

From the tone of your post, I gather you want either specific, pin point themes, or no theme at all.

 

I would imagine the “theme” concept came about to limit the sheer volume of photos the staff must pick thorough and preview, and narrow it down to a general type of image.

 

First consider the concept of there being several types of theme…

The general theme, such as this week’s theme, “passengers”, which could and did encompass everything from passenger equipment only to the people on platforms.

 

Or, a totally specific theme…such as “Three people on a NYC subway platform, one wearing a red knit watch cap and another with a Starbuck’s cup in their left hand”

 

I would imagine the reason Brian goes with the “general theme” concept is it is simply easier and ensures and allows a broad photographer’s interpretation, therefor creating a broad image choice in submissions.

 

To be too specific would severely limit the submissions.

 

As for your worry that the effort of the photographer to capture the theme of the contest is being wasted because Mookie doesn’t care about themes, you should note that not one of the photos in the contest were specifically shot just for this contest, in fact, only two of the photos were taken this year, one in January and one in April, long before the theme was announced.

One in fact, is from 1971!

 

So it seems your concern is both wasted, and false, just a reason to argue.

 

As for Mookie not caring about the theme, why should that matter one wit to you?

She likes railroad photographs, theme or no theme, she enjoys looking at them, and when she is asked to judge, she goes with whatever strikes her fancy.

I would surmise that most of the people here do the same, after all, the idea is to entertain and enjoy, not nit-pick.

 

The only time I ever consider the theme when voting is when every single photo is so zeroed in on the theme that I am left to choose the one that most closely fits, or when so many of the submissions seem to have nothing to do with the theme at all, and choosing the one that does or comes the closest is all that’s left.

 

So my criteria for choosing, and I bet most folks here use the same, whether they admit it or not, is which photo captures my eye, which one makes me keep coming back to it over and over, which one evokes an emotional response, because it strikes a familiar chord, or I have been there or seen something like the image that make me feel good.

Simply put, I pick the one I like best, regardless of anything else.

 

Now, most of us here are sorry your other favorite forum is gone, but if you have such a issue with that, then take it up with Brian and the Kalmbach staff

Just because your favorite forum is gone is no reason to try and ruin this one for the rest of us, and no reason to dump on the folks here.

 

To offer you the same advice you have offered others, if you don’t like the trackside contest, then don’t read the trackside contest!

 

Either that, or take your ball and go home, but quit trying to piss on the rest of us, trust me, there are more of us than you, and you will end up awfully wet! 

[Dakguy201]

I believe all of the photos were sufficiently close to the announced theme, even the waiting room scene.

Part of the fun of these contests is seeing how various entries make interpretations of the theme that I had not considered.  Another part is learning from better photographers than I am.      

[Murphy Siding]

K.P.- Have you by chance submitted photos to the Trackside with Trains contests and had your photos not make the finalists on a theme?

[Murphy Siding]

K. P. Harrier

...............  It has been my experience in life that there are two types of people, (1) focused and theme conscious people, and (2) rattlebrain types that have an inability of stay on one subject.  As far as Tracksides go, it would go a long way if themes were emphasized and instructions were to vote on the photo that best brings the theme forward.  Without that emphasis and everyone being on the same wavelength, conflict is destined to occur.  Just look at all the sort of cats here at the forum with backs hunched up and meow-screaming.

K.P.

 

Meow? Huh?

      If you set up an American Idol type of voting contest without the world's most specific, narrow-minded instruction/rulebook how can you demand perfection? If this is supposed to be a black & white, technical, by-the-book, perfect photo journalism contest, then you need an elite group of experts to judge things. Forward your resume to Kalmbach.

    On the other hand, if the contest is to simply to give forum members something to enjoy and to talk about, then they should just have a theme and ask voters to vote on their favorite photo of those chosen to be within the theme. ‘Sounds simple enough to me.

 

[BaltACD]

It is up to the photographers to submit their efforts to the 'theme'; it is up to the screeners to pick from those submitted for the array to be judged by the public.

It is up to the public to pick their choice for WHATEVER REASONS the public wants to choose - some submissions grab your guts, some don't.  Follow your gut!

Artistic merit is in the eye of the beholder and sometimes in the eye of the beerholder.

[Euclid]

 

K. P. Harrier

You, Ed, can contribute to there being peace at the forum by promoting THEME AWARENESS. That, or encouraging staffers to do away with themes altogether so that there is NO misunderstandings! Both ways cannot exist at the same time.

On several occassions here, I have avocated doing away with themse alltogether.  There already is the theme of railroading.  There is no need to add on a second theme.  I suspect that photos having no railroad content would be barred from the contest.  Whereas, matching the secondary theme is not required to be in the contest.  Indeed, matching the seconary theme is so subjective that there could never be agreement as to whether a photo matches it at all most of the time.

It is a photo constest, and to me that means a contest about the technical and artistic quality of the photograph.  Matching a theme, and judging the photo on that basis adds a whole other unrelated layer of judging criteria.  How do you choose between a great artistic/technical photo and one that superbly matches the theme?  Artistic and technical generally go hand in hand, but matching a theme is completely independent of the artistic/technical merits.

So I feel that theme matching introduces needless ambigity to the purpose of the photo contest.  Theme matching is a skill that has nothing to do with photography.      

[Mookie]

This is the biggest bunch of blather I have read in a long time.  I am an individual. I do have a brain.  So far, I am like everyone else on here.  But i don't "do" photography, I don't own a camera, I don't go to art museums and look at what is usually hanging there because I think it is a lot of excitement about something that doesn't appeal to me.  

But this photo appealed to me the minute I saw it.  I don't care what the theme was; I will not be submitting any photos.  If the photogs on here want to gather and have a club every two weeks on a "theme", go for it.  I will look at them and judge which, if any, I - personally mind you - like the best and vote.  Then if I want to make a comment, I should be able to comment on what I saw.  I don't care if anyone likes my comment or my choice - it is still a free forum.  I voted shortly after this "theme" was posted and - wow - looks like I picked a winner.  

The comments have denigrated to arguments and I wanted to add a different kind of comment.  KP - when your name appears on the masthead of this forum, then I might respect your opinion.  Until then - 

[K. P. Harrier]

edblysard (5-25):

Greetings, Ed!  We haven’t exchanged thoughts for some time.  Hopefully, this reply will clear up matters for you.

The KEY statement of Mookie’s was:  “I don’t worry about the theme.”  How do you think contestants who went out of their way to conform to the concept of the theme feel when it was a person that didn’t conform to the theme wins?  Mookie, you Ed, and anyone else with ‘the theme is irrelevant’ mentality are implying themes should be done away with.  Since that seems to be the prevailing perspective, maybe themes should be done away with.

But, think about this:  Wouldn’t an editor get fired if he (or she) repeatedly wrote hodge-podge material irrelevant to their many articles’ titles?  It has been my experience in life that there are two types of people, (1) focused and theme conscious people, and (2) rattlebrain types that have an inability of stay on one subject.  As far as Tracksides go, it would go a long way if themes were emphasized and instructions were to vote on the photo that best brings the theme forward.  Without that emphasis and everyone being on the same wavelength, conflict is destined to occur.  Just look at all the sort of cats here at the forum with backs hunched up and meow-screaming.

You, Ed, can contribute to there being peace at the forum by promoting THEME AWARENESS.  That, or encouraging staffers to do away with themes altogether so that there is NO misunderstandings!  Both ways cannot exist at the same time.  I now suspect (“suspect”) the staffers at Astronomy Magazine, without leadership, tried to have it both ways, which doesn’t work, and suffered the consequences, and those consequences were so bad that suspension of their forums resulted.

Hope that puts things in a better light for you,

K.P.

[edblysard]

K. P. Harrier

Oh, Mookie! (5-25):

 

 

Mookie

I don't worry about the theme.  I let the judges/photographers decide that.  I look at all of them very carefully and vote for the one that I like best.  My eyes are my camera and some photos really speak to me - like this one.  My first thought was Alfred Hitchcock standing there.  No crowd, no commotion.  Just two people and quiet.

 

 

 

 

You don’t know how wonderful your post was! (Above)

I was sitting at the computer and reading YOUR post. Something came over me and I felt really, really weird.  I rushed to the bathroom mirror.  Oh my!  My head had greatly expanded because of the great insight and knowledge acquired from your post.  My presence was now very similar to that huge, tall guy on the Twilight Zone episode “To Serve Man.”  My HP42S calculator used for very complex math problems was immediately thrown away, as just looking at those problems the answers would now come to me.  Thanks so much, Mookie!

LOL,

K.P.

 

Wow K.P.

 

It seems mocking sarcasm is really your long suit.

All Mookie was trying to convey was that she lets the emotional impact of the photo help her decide which one she likes.

Same reasoning helped me decide on the same photo, for the same reason, it does have somewhat of the feel of a noir Hitchcock film, had me wondering why the locomotive was “waiting” back in the fog…and which of the two waiting passengers was it after?

And it is unlike you to mock another, more so someone who has been here as long as you, just for saying how they feel about something.

Wonder how you would react if people told you why they became railfans in the first place..

Would you make just as much fun at their expense too?

 

[Murphy Siding]

     I (obviously) see the Tracksides with Trains threads and voting differently than you do. I see it as having a theme so that the group of photos are similar. From there, it's up to me to decide which I think is the best photo within that theme. I think of it as more of an art than a science. Who would want to vote simply on whether a photo does or doesn't meet the criteria of the theme? (Oh wait- that answer would be euclid, but I digress). If you do that, you might as well just go with the same theme all the time- 3/4 wedge shot of a shiny diesel locomotive.

[Murphy Siding]

K. P. Harrier

Oh, Mookie! (5-25):

 

 

Mookie

I don't worry about the theme.  I let the judges/photographers decide that.  I look at all of them very carefully and vote for the one that I like best.  My eyes are my camera and some photos really speak to me - like this one.  My first thought was Alfred Hitchcock standing there.  No crowd, no commotion.  Just two people and quiet.

 

 

 

 

You don’t know how wonderful your post was! (Above)

I was sitting at the computer and reading YOUR post. Something came over me and I felt really, really weird.  I rushed to the bathroom mirror.  Oh my!  My head had greatly expanded because of the great insight and knowledge acquired from your post.  My presence was now very similar to that huge, tall guy on the Twilight Zone episode “To Serve Man.”  My HP42S calculator used for very complex math problems was immediately thrown away, as just looking at those problems the answers would now come to me.  Thanks so much, Mookie!

LOL,

K.P.

 

Is that the one where William Shatner sees the gremlin on the wing of the jetliner?

[Mookie]

Yeah, KP.  My middle name is "profound"....

[K. P. Harrier]

Oh, Mookie! (5-25):

Mookie

I don't worry about the theme.  I let the judges/photographers decide that.  I look at all of them very carefully and vote for the one that I like best.  My eyes are my camera and some photos really speak to me - like this one.  My first thought was Alfred Hitchcock standing there.  No crowd, no commotion.  Just two people and quiet.

 

You don’t know how wonderful your post was! (Above)

I was sitting at the computer and reading YOUR post. Something came over me and I felt really, really weird.  I rushed to the bathroom mirror.  Oh my!  My head had greatly expanded because of the great insight and knowledge acquired from your post.  My presence was now very similar to that huge, tall guy on the Twilight Zone episode “To Serve Man.”  My HP42S calculator used for very complex math problems was immediately thrown away, as just looking at those problems the answers would now come to me.  Thanks so much, Mookie!

LOL,

K.P.

[Murphy Siding]

Mookie

I don't worry about the theme.  I let the judges/photographers decide that.  I look at all of them very carefully and vote for the one that I like best.  My eyes are my camera and some photos really speak to me - like this one.  My first thought was Alfred Hitchcock standing there.  No crowd, no commotion.  Just two people and quiet.

 

I agree. Part me was asking when was the last time I saw a man wearing a suit and hat. The other part of me was expecting a crop duster to fly in through the fog.

[Mookie]

I don't worry about the theme.  I let the judges/photographers decide that.  I look at all of them very carefully and vote for the one that I like best.  My eyes are my camera and some photos really speak to me - like this one.  My first thought was Alfred Hitchcock standing there.  No crowd, no commotion.  Just two people and quiet.

[tree68]

You'll never make everyone happy.  If the theme was summer rails in the city, someone would wonder if they should be Class 1 or transit, or 80# or 132#, or maybe railfans in shorts in an urban setting...

I think if you get too specific, it changes from a theme to a study.  Kinda like an art class painting a bowl of fruit.  For some, the banana will be in front, for others it will be the orange, and the rest will show an apple front and center.  Which one is "right"?

That's not to say that a very specific theme couldn't be used.  F'rinstance, instead of just "passengers" we might shoot for "boarding passengers."  Submissions could range from the mundane - someone about to step onto the car, to the romantic - a last kiss, to the comical - someone insisting on carrying all five bags onboard by themselves.  And so on.

Or it could be a more technical theme.  There are plenty.  "Headlights" could bring a wide range of submissions, from close-ups to a point of light in the distance.

But - my criteria for judging each round's submissions is whether they speak to the theme - ie, I can more or less determine the theme by looking at the picture, without having to resort to the submitter's notes.  Technical merit is a consideration, but everyone is shooting 12MB digital today.  Unless it's a challenging exposure, that's a minor consideration.  Composition is a far greater factor.

[Murphy Siding]

Zoom! Right over my head! It's like I asked you your favorite flavor of ice cream and you said 'it depends'. I was kind of expecting something like a theme of 'blue locomotives with the number 6, on a track with deciduous trees visible and the clear implication that the photo was taken in the fall'... or maybe something a little more exact and less open to interpretation. 

[K. P. Harrier]

Murphy Siding (5-24):

You apparently haven’t seen all the bad photos I’ve taken … Some get posted anyway because they’re the only ones I’ve got on a thread’s update news item.

As for an “idea of an ideal theme,” are you asked about possible subject matters, how a theme is announced, or something else?  As to how it is announced, such as the present theme, “passengers,” just a few more words would have conveyed the concept apparently desired, such as, “passengers could be people on board a train, preparing to get on a train or walking away on a platform, etc.” based on what is perceived from what photos the editors chose this cycle.

If you know anything about discourses and lecturing, then you know that a well-known technique is repeating a matter another way so an audience gets the point and understands it.

Take care,

K.P.

[Murphy Siding]

K. P. Harrier

Amen!

 

So let me ask. You take a lot of great photos. What would be your idea of an ideal theme for a trackside with trains?

[K. P. Harrier]

Amen!

[Murphy Siding]

K. P. Harrier

Murphy Siding (5-23):

I don’t think they count.  The connotation of traveler is someone repeatedly traveling over great distances.  There is nothing that suggests that in the contest photos.  Commuters, participants, or spectators yes, but not travelers.

That interior station scene with people posing could be interpreted as passengers, passengers in the sense they are modeling people waiting to board a trains for continuing their trip, but if they are starting their trip, “passengers” doesn’t seem to apply by dictionary definition.

Take care,

K.P.

 

Potato patato. That would depend on what the definition of *is* is.

     I think that photo contests that get people talking about trains and photos  is a lot more fun than forum discusions about the exact meanings and various interpretations of phrases and words.

[M636C]

While hairs are being split, I should point out that the VIA cars in the image by Alex Mayes are not LRC cars but the European "Nightstar" cars originally intended for sleeping car services through the Channel Tunnel and purchased by VIA when those services didn't go ahead. They look vaguely similar to the LRC cars.

I assume those people count as passengers and that shot shows well the boarding process in less than fine weather.

But Mitch Goldman's photo is pictorially the best and shows a common experience of passengers.

Peter

[K. P. Harrier]

Murphy Siding (5-23):

I don’t think they count.  The connotation of traveler is someone repeatedly traveling over great distances.  There is nothing that suggests that in the contest photos.  Commuters, participants, or spectators yes, but not travelers.

That interior station scene with people posing could be interpreted as passengers, passengers in the sense they are modeling people waiting to board a trains for continuing their trip, but if they are starting their trip, “passengers” doesn’t seem to apply by dictionary definition.

Take care,

K.P.

[wanswheel]

David Croteau

Jim Evans

Mitch Goldman

Alex Mayes

Brian Schmidt

Trevor Sokolan

Steve Thomas

Joel Wendt

Nun of the above