oltmannd ATLANTIC CENTRAL Which begs the question asked above - how would we generate this power? My assumption would be that it would be powered from the grid, so whatever is powering the grid, powers the electrification. I read somewhere that the total, lifecycle cost of wind power is now less than coal, so I'd bet we have quite a bit more wind power - and an upgraded grid to transport - in the next couple decades. There likely will be schemes such as batteries and capacitive storage to cover slack and peak periods. Mountain railroading would generate a lot of energy from regenerative braking, so it would be a good place to install a local energy storage solution.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Which begs the question asked above - how would we generate this power?
My assumption would be that it would be powered from the grid, so whatever is powering the grid, powers the electrification.
I read somewhere that the total, lifecycle cost of wind power is now less than coal, so I'd bet we have quite a bit more wind power - and an upgraded grid to transport - in the next couple decades. There likely will be schemes such as batteries and capacitive storage to cover slack and peak periods.
Mountain railroading would generate a lot of energy from regenerative braking, so it would be a good place to install a local energy storage solution.
No question, large scale storage would be the next electrical breakthough.
Until then........my house is heated with oil, my cars run on gasoline, I cook on propane........and I operate a somewhat large home and out buildings (1200 sg ft garage/model train room/shop, built in pool, 4000 sq ft home) on only a 200 amp service.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo question, large scale storage would be the next electrical breakthough.
Part of Don's point is that the R&D, implementation, and operation of any appropriate-scale energy-storage or hybrid system needs to be at grid scale, linked and wheeled as part of large-scale grid control. Even the explicitly rail-based gravity-storage system with the 90-degree-shifted concrete weights was a grid system.
As an extension, I would expect that a modern electrification (like the one Mr. Oltmann so charmingly proposed) would have something like grid-SCADA input into operations and dispatching so that any transient or power-factor concerns, both local and systemic, could be best addressed from a power-generation and -distribution perspective.
It's also probably non-starting to expect the whole cost of the electrification 'infrastructure -- with or without energy storage or practical use of regeneration -- to be undertaken at freight-railroad expense. It would be an interesting thing to see a state like California 'put its money where its mouth is' by subsidizing some very large percentage of the up-front electrification cost using the same "welfare economics" arguments used for, say, Government subsidies for PV or BEV.
And no, I wouldn't look soon for electrification west of Buffalo on the Chicago Line, although in 'recent history' the amount of traffic, judging by reports here of 'congestion', might justify a dual-mode electrification in a number of key places...
In 2040 I would expect that future train engineers wil show up to work in a air conditioned office and run trains via a Train Simulater. The engines will have 3D cameras and the office chairs will simulate vibarations. Uncoupling will by remote control. Railroad cars will have small solar powered traction moters and batterys and will sort themselves and "walk" themselves down to the main line. As far as Unions go since you can operate the trains from anywhere expect them to be outsourced to India which has a aboundonce of quilified train engineers.
RME ATLANTIC CENTRAL No question, large scale storage would be the next electrical breakthough. Part of Don's point is that the R&D, implementation, and operation of any appropriate-scale energy-storage or hybrid system needs to be at grid scale, linked and wheeled as part of large-scale grid control. Even the explicitly rail-based gravity-storage system with the 90-degree-shifted concrete weights was a grid system. As an extension, I would expect that a modern electrification (like the one Mr. Oltmann so charmingly proposed) would have something like grid-SCADA input into operations and dispatching so that any transient or power-factor concerns, both local and systemic, could be best addressed from a power-generation and -distribution perspective. It's also probably non-starting to expect the whole cost of the electrification 'infrastructure -- with or without energy storage or practical use of regeneration -- to be undertaken at freight-railroad expense. It would be an interesting thing to see a state like California 'put its money where its mouth is' by subsidizing some very large percentage of the up-front electrification cost using the same "welfare economics" arguments used for, say, Government subsidies for PV or BEV. And no, I wouldn't look soon for electrification west of Buffalo on the Chicago Line, although in 'recent history' the amount of traffic, judging by reports here of 'congestion', might justify a dual-mode electrification in a number of key places...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No question, large scale storage would be the next electrical breakthough.
What the OP proposes is essentially a competitor to Interstate Route 80, which had no directly-parallel line, either rail or highway, until its completion in the Late Sixties and early Seventies; the "Vondrak Gang" that used to liven things up at railroad.net had some discussion about this -- too many years ago.
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=17907&start=15
There was a time when Northwestern and North Central Pennsylvania was an attractive market for rail service; PRR, B&O, NYC and Erie all found their way into the area at one time or another, and a Trains issue from the late Forties featured a photo study of a day at FALLS CREEK Tower outside DuBois, where the B&O's (ex BR&P) main line crossed the Pennsy's Low Grade (Renovo-Brady's Bend) Line. All four of the big players found their way here, NYC & Erie via trackage rights, which changed over time as well.
In addition to the two lines already cited, NYC moved large amounts of bituminous coal from a hub at Jersey Shore, PA; a friendly connection (NYC/RDG) at Newberry (Williamsport) also generated bridge traffic.
There is a Railway Age article from sometime in the mid-Twenties (probably promoted by the Van Swearingens) in which a "new trunk line" from the NKP/W&LE-centered Alphabet Route diverges at Bellevue, OH and continues east via Stoneboro, Newberry, and a RDG/CNJ connection at Haucks, PA; it's worthy of note that a crossing of the Eastern Continental Divide near Benzette would not have involved helper grades, and very little construction of new trackage would hae been necessary. But the idea died, of course, with the onset of the Great Depression.
PRR's Low Grade dream was essentially stillborn -- one of the great cases of what might have been. It has survived largely on moves of unit coal between a large mine in Cambria and Clearfield Counties, and two coal-fired plants at Turbotville, PA (PP&L) and Pope's Creek, MD (PEPCo); both seem doomed to fold due to gas conversion. The NYC Pine Creek line has been gone for over twenty years as well, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for a revival.
RME oltmannd I tried to imagine what such a RR might look like and wrote about it in January 2014 in my blog entry "2040". I am looking forward to "part two" of the story, the "Easy as A.B.C." to its "With the Night Mail", as it were, that tells the reminiscences about how that electrification system came to be, and whether there were any 'false starts' or other approaches that are cautionary tales for we, the living.
oltmannd I tried to imagine what such a RR might look like and wrote about it in January 2014 in my blog entry "2040".
I am looking forward to "part two" of the story, the "Easy as A.B.C." to its "With the Night Mail", as it were, that tells the reminiscences about how that electrification system came to be, and whether there were any 'false starts' or other approaches that are cautionary tales for we, the living.
http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/2014/01/2040.html
2. The forecast wireless communication from freight train cars to crew is now functional in a least one application: The report in this News Wire article describes exactly that:
German railroad tests ‘wireless’ freight train
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/05/03-wireless-train
Congrats, Don, for being so prescient !
- PDN.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.