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Something mundane....like gravel

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Something mundane....like gravel
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, April 17, 2017 10:09 AM

 

     I saw something at a rural BNSF crossing that caught my eye. Some work had been done at a culvert near a crossing that included some track work. What I noticed was that the gravel and ballast seemed to come from 4 distinctively different sources.

 

 

 

    Most of the ballast was pink Sioux Quartzite. It's available 15 miles up the road at a quarry in Sioux Falls, SD. Some of the ballast and some of the finer gravel was dark red Sioux Quartzite available from the quarries in Dell Rapids, SD about 30 miles up the line. There was also granite ballast which would be available about 100 up the line from quarries near Granite Falls MN. There is also some finer granite type gravel of an entirely different color and texture.

 

 

 

     The curious mind wonders. Why wouldn't gravel and ballast be sourced from the nearest quarry that does business with the railroad? Are there differing sizes of ballast for different applications? Is there a certain hardness needed for ballast? Around here we have Sioux Quartzite which is really hard. North of Omaha, the gravel there looks like the byproduct of the chalkboard industry. Does that difference in hardness matter?

 

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, April 17, 2017 11:46 AM

Gravel in the ballast is a capital bozo no-no. (Crushed hard rock ballast only)

ROUND ROCK is like building track on ball bearings, the rock won't lock up. And it goes to dust faster than limestone usually. (ie gravel is a dirty word around trackmen Angry)

On the Class ones, if your local ballast supply and fleet is maxed-out, then they will send a cut of cars (fully loaded) from somewhere else and run those cars to the nearest pit, staying with that loading circuit until the crisis is over, especially out on the plains.

The harder the rock the better, the more fractured sides the better. Gravel is the crap the highway bubbas use.

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 17, 2017 12:00 PM

Murphy Siding

The curious mind wonders. Why wouldn't gravel and ballast be sourced from the nearest quarry that does business with the railroad? Are there differing sizes of ballast for different applications? Is there a certain hardness needed for ballast?

Class 1 railroads usually do have two classes of track ballast. Class 1 ballast is for mainline track, class 2 ballast for all other tracks. The class requirements differ in gradation and abration resistance of the stones. Here is a specification from CN:
http://www.winnipeg.ca/finance/findata/matmgt/documents//2013/539-2013//539-2013_Appendix_D-CN_Ballast_Specification.pdf
Regards, Volker (Germany)

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, April 17, 2017 2:41 PM

In addition to the pretty complete answers above, refer to the first several paragraphs and Table 6-8 per AREMA gradations on the page at this link, which should also address most of your questions: 

http://armytransportation.tpub.com/TI-850-02/Table-6-8-Recommended-Ballast-Gradations-64.htm 

The quantity needed for such a project is so small that it wouldn't justify even running ballast train past it, unless it was going there anyway.  It's more than likely that the MOW guys used what they had laying around in a stockpile for such little projects, perhaps supplemented by a carload or two also sitting around or diverted from another project, or maybe it was ordered just for this one.

Yes, there are different sizes for different applications - see (c)(1) and Table 6-8. The 4A is for mainline, the 4 for sidings and secondary tracks, and the 5 for walkways.  The gravel would make good bedding and backfill for the culvert, since it will easily run down into the space around the pipe and compact easily.  For that, it's better than any of the ballasts which are too pointy for the pipe to lay on, and too angular to flow down into the space properly - they'd likely 'hang up' there.  For your comparatively lightly trafficked line, any mixing of the ballasts would be OK - not worth a huge amount of trouble to keep them separated, as long as the gravel is kept out; any of that in the ballaset section might be accidental spillage.  Back in the day, here on the East Coast (coal country) cinders from steam engines and furnaces/ boilers were also used for low volume and light-weight traffic lines - worked better than you might think, and made it real easy to change ties and tamp the track, esp. with hand tools.   

Yes, a certain hardness is needed, and it does matter - a lot.  It's tested by what used to be known as the "Los Angeles Rattler Test".  Most quarries can't meet mainline specifications, which essentially require granite, quartzite, etc.  Limestone is a second choice, but only for lightly used non-critical tracks and where the better ballast is unavailable or uneconomic.  Refer also the Sec. 7.02 Ballast of these 2011 Norfolk Southern specifications:

http://www.nscorp.com/content/dam/nscorp/industrial-development/track-design-information/07_Materials.pdf    

- PDN. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 17, 2017 3:34 PM

If you used crushed and graded Peridotite, very similiar to granite, it will slowly but surely absorb CO2 from the atmosphere and in the process convert the peridotie to limestone. This is how many of the great thick limestone deposits around the world have came about. Nature's own check and balance. The CO2 is entombed in the Limestone and removed from the atmosphere. 

If this was enacted all across North America you could remove atmospheric CO2 Pretty evenly all across the continent. The process starts right away so we do not have to wait in Geological Time. Results can be measured and seen in 3 years if we do it right. 

Just a thought for all the greenies. 

Maybe the Railroads could claim carbon credits. Why not? 

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, April 17, 2017 3:43 PM

They'll just drive their unmaintained Subarus with the bald tires that are badly in need of a tune-up even more.Mischief

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, April 17, 2017 6:47 PM

Miningman

If you used crushed and graded Peridotite, very similiar to granite, it will slowly but surely absorb CO2 from the atmosphere and in the process convert the peridotie to limestone. This is how many of the great thick limestone deposits around the world have came about. Nature's own check and balance. The CO2 is entombed in the Limestone and removed from the atmosphere. 

If this was enacted all across North America you could remove atmospheric CO2 Pretty evenly all across the continent. The process starts right away so we do not have to wait in Geological Time. Results can be measured and seen in 3 years if we do it right. 

Just a thought for all the greenies. 

Maybe the Railroads could claim carbon credits. Why not? 

 

Really? I used to live in Gillette Wyoming, surrounded by coal mines, oil wells and nothing else. The soil is so bad there that most of the ground is just red clay rolling hills with not much able to grow on it. Can we have BNSF and UP backhaul mountains of crushed and graded Peridotite? We could cover hundreds of square miles of emptiness with it. You'd still have nothing growing, but you'd be absorbing CO2.

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Posted by edblysard on Monday, April 17, 2017 7:12 PM

mudchicken

They'll just drive their unmaintained Subarus with the bald tires that are badly in need of a tune-up even more.Mischief

 

And Volvos, they all have a secret Volvo hidden somewhere…the Diesel Wagon one.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 17, 2017 7:14 PM

Murphy Siding: Yes, absolutely .. not a pipe dream or fantasy.

Good suggestion on your part. Good but small deposits of Peridotite along the coast in Oregon and Washington, plenty up here in the Canadian Shield. 

Peridotite is, without getting into all the mineralogy and geological jargon, is basically the original surface rock on the earth. There are a few exposed deposits/ outcrops still on surface, mostly where glaciers have bulldozed away multiple layers of covering rock. 

limestone is formed by the interaction of the original earth composite rock "peridodite" ..the Calcium in it reacts with oxygen to form calcium oxide which interacts with very high CO2 levels in the atmosphere and forms Calcium Carbonate CaCO3 ...this is a self regulating mechanism which emtombs the much higher CO2 levels in past geological eras and forms Limestone CaCO3 ...and now we lay our roadbeds and build our buildings out of it...so take that Al Gore...a little bit of science goes a long way explaining things...Miningman
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Posted by zugmann on Monday, April 17, 2017 7:37 PM

edblysard
And Volvos, they all have a secret Volvo hidden somewhere…the Diesel Wagon one.

It's behind the AMC Eagle.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 17, 2017 8:32 PM

zugmann
edblysard

It's behind the AMC Eagle.

Eagles as I recall were full time 4WD

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:23 AM
Wow, my best friend’s Mom had an Eagle back in the day…they lived in a very rural area near Dibol, Texas…..that thing earned it’s keep and then some.

 

Ugly as all get out, but tough and did just what they advertised it could.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:06 AM

edblysard
Wow, my best friend’s Mom had an Eagle back in the day…they lived in a very rural area near Dibol, Texas…..that thing earned it’s keep and then some.

 

Ugly as all get out, but tough and did just what they advertised it could.
 

I did business with a small time remodeling contractor. He had an Eagle with a rack on it and used it like a utility pickup. When he hauled 16 foot material, he would bungie cord the front end of the bundle down to the front bumper so it wouldn't flop in the wind.

     When hunting season came around, he just had to unload the tools and junk in the back.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:12 AM

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