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Harrison Shuts Down Atlanta

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Posted by ns145 on Thursday, March 23, 2017 3:09 PM

schlimm

 

 
slotracer
Good leaders mix growth with sensible cost reduction, HH did not grow CP

 

In the period of EHH's tenure, 2013-2016, revenues increased each year except the last, which was impacted by economic conditions in Canada.

 

Yes, revenues went up at CP thanks to the power of "Core Pricing" and yearly increases in revenue ton-miles during most of Mr. Harrison's tenure.  However, total carloads hardly budged, while at the same time CN showed significant growth.  CN's 2016 carloadings exceed 2012 levels, while CP's have declined by 5%.  Here are the stats from both companies' annual reports:

Year  Carloads CP       Carloads CN

2012  2.669 million     5.059 million

2013  2.688 million     5.190 million

2014  2.684 million     5.625 million

2015  2.628 million     5.485 million

2016  2.525 million     5.205 million

 

 

  

 

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, March 23, 2017 3:45 PM

rockymidlandrr

Word got out yesterday and confirmed that the Tilford Yard in Atlanta is no longer a Hump yard.  Traffic needing humped will be routed away from there, the Receiving yard will be Used to hold trains with no crews, class tracks 21-40 will be taken out of service and tracks 1-20 will be used for flat switching.  Superintendent was notified of his firing by the police escorts who escorted him off the property.  

 

Why is my BS detector going off? Police escorting off a fired superintedent aka Train Master?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:15 PM

rockymidlandrr, good stuff! Thank you for the excellent intel!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, March 23, 2017 7:20 PM

ns145, Interesting stuff! CP's carloads drop 144,000, and CN's carloads increase 146,000.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:50 PM

BaltACD

 

 
beaulieu
CSX under Hunter is going to reroute long-haul carload freight via Birmingham and thence Nashville to avoid grades out of Chattanooga on the NC&StL. Tilford Yard will only sort cars that originate or terminate in the Greater Atlanta area.

 

Really hope there has been A LOT of capacity enhancement projects on the S&NA North between Brimingham and Nashville to support the rerouting, as well as capacity enhancement on the Lineville Sub between Birmingham and Manchester.

 

This route has bridge at Decatur, AL controlled by NS, no?

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:56 PM

oltmannd
BaltACD
beaulieu

Really hope there has been A LOT of capacity enhancement projects on the S&NA North between Brimingham and Nashville to support the rerouting, as well as capacity enhancement on the Lineville Sub between Birmingham and Manchester.

This route has bridge at Decatur, AL controlled by NS, no?

That is correct.  NS crosses CSX at Dalton on the W&A.  Tit for tat.  Communications is your friend.

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Posted by rockymidlandrr on Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:21 PM

oltmannd

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
beaulieu
CSX under Hunter is going to reroute long-haul carload freight via Birmingham and thence Nashville to avoid grades out of Chattanooga on the NC&StL. Tilford Yard will only sort cars that originate or terminate in the Greater Atlanta area.

 

Really hope there has been A LOT of capacity enhancement projects on the S&NA North between Brimingham and Nashville to support the rerouting, as well as capacity enhancement on the Lineville Sub between Birmingham and Manchester.

 

 

 

This route has bridge at Decatur, AL controlled by NS, no?

 

 



Correct, on a bridge that CSX used to own but sold it to NS to shave costs.

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Posted by 466lex on Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:29 PM

ns145

 

 
schlimm

 

 
slotracer
Good leaders mix growth with sensible cost reduction, HH did not grow CP

 

In the period of EHH's tenure, 2013-2016, revenues increased each year except the last, which was impacted by economic conditions in Canada.

 

 

 

Yes, revenues went up at CP thanks to the power of "Core Pricing" and yearly increases in revenue ton-miles during most of Mr. Harrison's tenure.  However, total carloads hardly budged, while at the same time CN showed significant growth.  CN's 2016 carloadings exceed 2012 levels, while CP's have declined by 5%.  Here are the stats from both companies' annual reports:

Year  Carloads CP       Carloads CN

2012  2.669 million     5.059 million

2013  2.688 million     5.190 million

2014  2.684 million     5.625 million

2015  2.628 million     5.485 million

2016  2.525 million     5.205 million

 

 

  

 In Canada a "carload" is not a "carload" as counted in the U.S.  Intermodal loads are counted as "carloads" by CN and CP in their annual reports.  CN's "carload" figures are up entirely because of Prince Rupert international intermodal.

For the period cited in the quote, CN carloads (U.S. version) declined 8%, while CP's declined 6%.

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, March 24, 2017 6:44 AM

kgbw49

ns145, Interesting stuff! CP's carloads drop 144,000, and CN's carloads increase 146,000.

 

Same thing will likely happen between CSX and NS.  

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, March 24, 2017 6:47 AM

rockymidlandrr

 

 
oltmannd

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
beaulieu
CSX under Hunter is going to reroute long-haul carload freight via Birmingham and thence Nashville to avoid grades out of Chattanooga on the NC&StL. Tilford Yard will only sort cars that originate or terminate in the Greater Atlanta area.

 

Really hope there has been A LOT of capacity enhancement projects on the S&NA North between Brimingham and Nashville to support the rerouting, as well as capacity enhancement on the Lineville Sub between Birmingham and Manchester.

 

 

 

This route has bridge at Decatur, AL controlled by NS, no?

 

 

 

 



Correct, on a bridge that CSX used to own but sold it to NS to shave costs.

 

 

There is not a huge amount of NS traffic on that bridge, but it is a bit of a bottle neck.  NS could play the bad guy and hold CSX traffic for their own, but CSX can get even with Wauhatchie to Stevenson...

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, March 24, 2017 7:01 AM

Closing the hump in Atlanta and turning the yard into a flat switch serving yard really isn't a big deal.  The yard doesn't make the CSX top terminals reported in the STB mandated dwell reporting (http://www.railroadpm.org/Performance%20Reports/CSX.aspx)

When you do something like this, you add some circuity and time for some traffic and perhaps another classification event for a small amount of traffic.  You also add some traffic into the remaining terminals.  It's easy to model and know what the trade-offs are, although I don't know if EHH is big into data and modeling.  When he was at CN, there were fragile, tactical tools running on the planner's desktops, but not much use of the strategic modeling tools.

Let's see what happens next...  I'm guessing a couple of big places get shuttered and CSX goes back to daily service between them.  It'll be interesting to see how the network handles the changed flows. 

When NS expanded Bellevue, there were teething problems getting the whole plan into place without creating congestion.  There are lots of "nuts and bolt" in real operation that need attention in order to implement plan changes.

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by ns145 on Friday, March 24, 2017 4:10 PM

466lex

 

 
ns145

 

 
schlimm

 

 
slotracer
Good leaders mix growth with sensible cost reduction, HH did not grow CP

 

In the period of EHH's tenure, 2013-2016, revenues increased each year except the last, which was impacted by economic conditions in Canada.

 

 

 

Yes, revenues went up at CP thanks to the power of "Core Pricing" and yearly increases in revenue ton-miles during most of Mr. Harrison's tenure.  However, total carloads hardly budged, while at the same time CN showed significant growth.  CN's 2016 carloadings exceed 2012 levels, while CP's have declined by 5%.  Here are the stats from both companies' annual reports:

Year  Carloads CP       Carloads CN

2012  2.669 million     5.059 million

2013  2.688 million     5.190 million

2014  2.684 million     5.625 million

2015  2.628 million     5.485 million

2016  2.525 million     5.205 million

 

 

  

 In Canada a "carload" is not a "carload" as counted in the U.S.  Intermodal loads are counted as "carloads" by CN and CP in their annual reports.  CN's "carload" figures are up entirely because of Prince Rupert international intermodal.

For the period cited in the quote, CN carloads (U.S. version) declined 8%, while CP's declined 6%.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I understand that CN and CP lump everything together under the heading of "carloads" versus splitting out what we in the US consider "carloads" versus intermodal.  I should have explained this difference in my earlier post.  Thank you for your clarification on this matter.  

I'm not surprised to read that CN's "carloads" have declined by roughly 8% comparing 2016 versus 2012 (2014 vs. 2012 might be a different matter).  What did surprise me was that CN's intermodal traffic grew by almost 24%, from 1.742 million units to 2.163 million units.  I agree that CN's development of Prince Rupert is a huge factor, but there is a quote in the May 2017 issue of TRAINS by Keith Creel where he defends CP's decision walk away from "low-margin" international intermodal traffic.  Thus, some of CN's intermodal growth has come from traffic diversions away from CP.  It might be "low-margin" traffic, but CN has found a way to make money moving it.  In 2012, CP's freight revenues were 64% of CN's.  In 2016, that number fell to 53.5%.  One company is moving ahead by growing its intermodal volume, while the other is willing to give it away.   

Another sector CN has done well in is automotive.  17.5% growth 2016 versus 2012.  Perusing CP's annual reports and examining their automotive sector trends, this is most likely due to more traffic diversions.  It is my understanding that the auto business is not low-margin.  It is, however, customer service-sensitive and that's exactly where Mr. Harrison's methods of controlling operating costs cause problems.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 24, 2017 5:50 PM

ns145
...It is my understanding that the auto business is not low-margin.  It is, however, customer service-sensitive and that's exactly where Mr. Harrison's methods of controlling operating costs cause problems.

CSX has a bunch of automotive traffic.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, March 24, 2017 10:07 PM

Decatur AL bridge over the Tennessee River...

Related image

Image result for decatur alabama railroad bridge

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:53 AM

With closing the hump at Tilford one has to wonder if this will mean less delays at Howell CP crossing or more for Amtrak's Crescent ?

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Saturday, March 25, 2017 3:59 PM

kgbw49

ns145, Interesting stuff! CP's carloads drop 144,000, and CN's carloads increase 146,000.

It is well-known among Canadian railroaders that CN has been eating CP's lunch for years now.  It goes back to before EHH took over CP, but has accelerated since then.  Not just higher-priority stuff like intermodal and autos, but bulk freight too (especially potash to Vancouver). 

And I hear (others at CP can confirm or deny) that CP's Vancouver terminal has been going through some sort of a meltdown for the past while, as a result of all the experienced managers quitting or being fired under EHH.  It has gotten bad enough that CN (or CN-contracted crews using our locomotives) have taken over the switching of some customers (intermodal/grain terminals) off CP's downtown Vancouver waterfront yards. 

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, March 25, 2017 6:18 PM

SD70M-2Dude, after sifting out the usual NIMBY complaints, this story from January 2017 supports what you have been reporting. To borrow a phrase from "The Big Lebowski", the Dude abides!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dramatic-increase-in-train-traffic-through-east-vancouver-1.3922308

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Posted by oltmannd on Saturday, March 25, 2017 7:50 PM

blue streak 1

With closing the hump at Tilford one has to wonder if this will mean less delays at Howell CP crossing or more for Amtrak's Crescent ?

 

I'd guess that it won't have much effect.  Same number of trains to and from same places, just blocking will change.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, March 25, 2017 7:57 PM

oltmannd
 
blue streak 1

With closing the hump at Tilford one has to wonder if this will mean less delays at Howell CP crossing or more for Amtrak's Crescent ?

 

 

 

I'd guess that it won't have much effect.  Same number of trains to and from same places, just blocking will change. 

Don watched the many yard and hump trains block Howell and am wondering if there will be less blockage of that kind.  On Crescent a while back watched what appeared to be a very slow hump train block it for 30 minutes while shoving merchandise cars.

Examples today 19 lost ~18 minutes over ideal ATL to Anniston and 20 lost 25  minutes the other way.

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Posted by BLET1995 on Thursday, April 6, 2017 9:02 PM

This really did happen.  The Terminal Superintendent made a smart remark to EHH and he replied that he did not like a smart ass and that his services would no longer be needed.  The individual does have Conductor seniority out of Etowah, TN.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 6, 2017 10:45 PM

BLET1995
This really did happen.  The Terminal Superintendent made a smart remark to EHH and he replied that he did not like a smart ass and that his services would no longer be needed.  The individual does have Conductor seniority out of Etowah, TN.

Malicious compliance is a female dog!

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, April 7, 2017 10:42 AM

1 mad customer here 1 mad one there sooner or later they will all say screw you and leave.  Just remember this all you EHH supporters he has a history of doing this same thing in Canada and in the USA with the IC.  Customers have a long term memory and will remember how he treated them in the past and will not be so quick to forgive him.  CSX gutting their middle management was the worst thing they could have done with him coming in over 1000 people fired that knew how the system ran how to keep customers happy.  His my way or the highway policies are going to result in labor problems systemwide then his sell everything he deems surplus is going to bite him in the butt if the economy gets going and CSX is power short.  What are they going to do place massive orders for engines that have a 6 month lead time while doing short term leases from Larry's truck and Electric on worn out engines. 

 

I just had 3 former CSX employees walk into my office looking for work today.  All were fired for being called surplus.  They were MOW workers on a branch line here in IL that serves multiple plastics plants.  Their feeling is EHH is going to start selling everything he can to get his beloved below 60% OR regardless of the damage it does to the railroad and then retire and leave the mess for whoever takes over. 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Friday, April 7, 2017 2:08 PM

What that's called is loss of 'institutional memory'. 

Some of us here remember when that kind of thing happened to the Strange (?) Yard in Houston after the SP-UP merger in the late 1990's.  I think it took about a year and setting up a special local dispatching/ coordination office to straighten it out.  Lots of inefficiency and unhappy customers then - also that's when the STB inposed the "Rail Performance Measures" metric to keep track of such things. 

- PDN. 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, April 7, 2017 2:18 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
CSX gutting their middle management was the worst thing they could have done with him coming in over 1000 people fired that knew how the system ran how to keep customers happy.

Ever stop to think there may be a method to Ward's "madness"? In the political world it's called sabotage. Get rid of the capable folk before the transition and leave Harrison high and dry or out on a limb. Didn't we just watch that movie a few months ago?

Norm


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Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 7, 2017 2:22 PM

Just another piece of the puzzle.  The sabotage angle is particularly salient as letting those folks go leaves one less thing EHH can do to save money and direct it to the investors.

And ultimately reach that magic number he's looking for.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, April 7, 2017 3:27 PM

Norm48327
Get rid of the capable folk before the transition and leave Harrison high and dry or out on a limb.

   I'd been thinking along that line.   Beat him to the punch so he won't look like such a big hero.   Might seem a little childish, but...

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, April 7, 2017 5:29 PM

Norm48327
 
Shadow the Cats owner
CSX gutting their middle management was the worst thing they could have done with him coming in over 1000 people fired that knew how the system ran how to keep customers happy.

 

Ever stop to think there may be a method to Ward's "madness"? In the political world it's called sabotage. Get rid of the capable folk before the transition and leave Harrison high and dry or out on a limb. Didn't we just watch that movie a few months ago?

 

And to what BaltACD said about "Malicious Compliance" being a female puppydog! 

{The root of sabotage was the act of the Luddites who threw their sabots into the 'works' as a protest.}            Getting rid of those who share their hard-earned 'Institutional Knowledge', and their" knowing what they can do to rectify certain daily situations"; can certainly lead an organization down that same kind of rabbit hole that UPRR found itself in, when it swallowed SP, way back when. Whistling 

 

 


 

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Posted by slotracer on Friday, April 7, 2017 5:40 PM

Strang yard, the local switch job was referred to as "The Strang Mafia" by locals but that's another story.

The UP swallowing the SP and the service melt down in the late nineties. Dick Davidson another egotistocal, don't question me, every decision I make is perfect tyrant. His stubborn-ness and refussal to adjust the plans as things went down the chute only prolonged and worsened the UP dervice melt down back then. I believe EHH is worse with his Ego and out of control cuts, this situation at CSX has the potential to get very bad and somewhat long term. Time will tell.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, April 7, 2017 6:19 PM

Sam,

Please stop making reference to my first wife. She fit the mold.

That was said in jest. We simply didn't get along, but to this day I swear the broom she kept in the closet was her primary transportation.. That's a joke I offer to close friends.

Hey, I'm not perfect either; just commenting on past experience in life.

Gonna crawl back under my rock now. Wink

Norm


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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, April 7, 2017 6:49 PM

Norm48327

 

 
Shadow the Cats owner
CSX gutting their middle management was the worst thing they could have done with him coming in over 1000 people fired that knew how the system ran how to keep customers happy.

 

Ever stop to think there may be a method to Ward's "madness"? In the political world it's called sabotage. Get rid of the capable folk before the transition and leave Harrison high and dry or out on a limb. Didn't we just watch that movie a few months ago?

 

I read somewhere (and posted on one of the many threads EHH has inspired) that the thought was that Ward letting go of some of these people was so they could give them a better severance package than EHH would once he took over.  A kind of way to reward people who were loyal but most likely to be shown the door by EHH.

Jeff

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