cx500Centralized dispatching is good for the managers, but leaves a disconnect between the dispatchers and their territory, and also with the crews. While they are of course frequently communicating on the radio, that is public and recorded. Sometimes it is useful to have a more informal discussion. John
John
That is what personal cell phones and 'break rooms' are for.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Experienced both - Dispatching is something only Dispatchers understand. Local managements don't see the corporate big picture, they only think they do. Centralized you, with a great deal of effort, get 'the whole team' pulling in the same direction. You get a common rules interpertation and application. De-centrailzed you have 'separate railroads' goverened by a common rule book that is interperted differently on each 'railroad'. Additionally, when problems develop at at division change point, there develops a us vs. them mentality when 'negotiations' take place over a telephone - that may or may not be answered in a timely manner thus generating more frustrations between the parties, rather than walking to the other division's management and developing a solution face to face, and in may cases the situation got resolved at the Dispatcher level without having to go to the division level. In both systems today, you develop a great deal of factual data that seems to be wasted on the corporation as a whole that does appear to utilize it. The one way centralized is out of touch is when weather becomes a factor - it is difficult to understand a foot of snow when it was 78 and sunny when you came to work. Those from winter struck area can comprehend the problems, those whose life experiences are all from the South can't.
Experienced both - Dispatching is something only Dispatchers understand. Local managements don't see the corporate big picture, they only think they do.
Centralized you, with a great deal of effort, get 'the whole team' pulling in the same direction. You get a common rules interpertation and application.
De-centrailzed you have 'separate railroads' goverened by a common rule book that is interperted differently on each 'railroad'. Additionally, when problems develop at at division change point, there develops a us vs. them mentality when 'negotiations' take place over a telephone - that may or may not be answered in a timely manner thus generating more frustrations between the parties, rather than walking to the other division's management and developing a solution face to face, and in may cases the situation got resolved at the Dispatcher level without having to go to the division level.
In both systems today, you develop a great deal of factual data that seems to be wasted on the corporation as a whole that does appear to utilize it.
The one way centralized is out of touch is when weather becomes a factor - it is difficult to understand a foot of snow when it was 78 and sunny when you came to work. Those from winter struck area can comprehend the problems, those whose life experiences are all from the South can't.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
To what extent would the duties of a railroad dispatcher be similar to those of an air traffic controller?
Most air traffic controllers rotate duties every two hours or so, i.e. tower to ground to approach to departure, etc. Would this be true for railroad dispatchers?
How long does a dispatcher spend before a screen before he or she gets a break?
Have many women joined the ranks of the dispatchers?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
JPS1To what extent would the duties of a railroad dispatcher be similar to those of an air traffic controller?
Most air traffic controllers rotate duties every two hours or so, i.e. tower to ground to approach to departure, etc. Would this be true for railroad dispatchers? How long does a dispatcher spend before a screen before he or she gets a break?
Train dispatchers are covered by hours of service, they can work 9 in 24. Shifts are scheduled at 8 hours. They work the same desk all shift. They can take a short break to go to the bathroom, get something to eat or catch a smoke. Most I have known eat at their desks.
Over time more women have hired on as dispatchers. On one railroad last 4 or 5 years of dispatch classes averaged 25-30% women. As with all railroad jobs, the 24x7, 365 nature of the job is not necessarily attractive to women raising a family.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
JPS1 To what extent would the duties of a railroad dispatcher be similar to those of an air traffic controller? Most air traffic controllers rotate duties every two hours or so, i.e. tower to ground to approach to departure, etc. Would this be true for railroad dispatchers? How long does a dispatcher spend before a screen before he or she gets a break? Have many women joined the ranks of the dispatchers?
Air traffic controllers have the ability to change the playing field - Train Dispatchers don't. The trains are the size they are and the track facilities are what they are - it is up to the Dispatcher to manipulate the trains and tracks in such a manner as to achieve the goals the company has set. Those goals can change on a daily basis and sometimes more than one in a tour of duty.
Former ATC's sometimes have trouble with the concept that the playing field doesn't change.
With the tools of the CADS system a territory can be set up to run for several hours (if nothing unexpected happens). CADS will let signals and meets be set up many miles in advance of the operating trains. When the railroad is set up the Dispatcher can take his breaks. The one thing that can crumple this house of cars is the Emergency Radio channel activating with a train reporting trouble.
When a lined signal is 'taken down' the CADS system will run a timer for that specific signal before a route can be changed and the signal religned. Some time outs can be as short as two minute others as long as 12-15 minutes. If you can make logical sense out of these timings, you are better than I and I only tried for 26 years.
At the time of my retirement, our office consisted of 6 Dispatching Desks that are staffed 24/7/365. Each desk consists of 4 regular jobs - 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Relief. Each desk has a 'tag day' or day that must be filled from the extra board. The Chief's job is a additional desk. Daylight is a non-contract position. 2nd, 3rd and Relief are contract jobs. There is also a tag day on the Chief's job.
The Extra Board, when I left numbered 13 people. Extra Dispatchers were expected to be Qualified on two desks before being allowed to mark up on the Extra Board from their training status. As time progresses, many are qualified on 3, 4 or more desks. Among the 40 Dispatchers on the seniority roster 8 are women. When I retired, my seniority date was 1973, the next person on the roster had a date of 2001.
BaltACDIn my dealings with NS, they have had failures at their office that handles VRE commuters from Alexandria to Manassas and they were dead in the water until those issues were fixed.
Teething problems with UTCS... They've been pretty rare.
NS has 10 dispatching offices - one per division. Let me see if I can remeber...
Atlanta - Georgia
Birmingham - Alabama
Greenville - Piedmont
Harrisburg - Harrisburg
Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh
Dearborn - Dearborn
Decatur - Illinois
Bellevue - Lake
Knoxville - Central
Roanoke - Virginia
The dispatching system is GE's UTCS. All divisions run on the same server and there is a hot backup as well as a disaster recovery server. Any desk on the network can dispatch any territory and there is a disaster recovery location (one for the whole network) so that, should a dispatch center have a long term issue, the division can be dispatched remotely.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmanndThe dispatching system is GE's UTCS.
A GE Harris product. The UP bought it years ago, GE could never get it to work right and UP ended up not using it. GE worked on it some more and sold it to the NS. Last I heard the NS is still having some of the same issues as the UP did. UP went to US&S/Ansaldo and they worked on their version for a decade or so, ran into some of the same problems, UP is now working on it in house based on the Ansaldo code.
Most of the planners work well on single track, but have issues on multiple track, too many options for routing. The larger the railroad, the more you have to break down the railroad into smaller territories because planning a huge area takes too long (replans have to be able to be done in less than a couple minutes). That creates problems because territory A can plan to put a train approaching a boundary from territory B into a siding, while territory B can plan to put the train approaching from territory A into a siding. That creates a conflict that the two territories have to resolve. But when they resolve it, one or both territories have to replan, which can change the boundary conditions, which creates a new conflict, which causes a replan, which creates a new boundary conflict, which creates a new replan, etc, etc. They have resolved some of this but its still a work in progress.
I have driven I-40 between Neerdles, CA and Albuquerque many times with my scanner turned to the various frequencies BNSF uses when dispatching the transcon. There is a different channel for - Belen to Gallup; Gallup to Winslow; Winslow to Seligman; Seligman to Needles. The DS's appear to coordinate this Two track, 562 mile, CTC railroad very well with sometimes more than 100 trains per day (including Amtrak #'s 3 and 4). And I was surprised at the personal and polite communication that many DS's had with the crews, like " BNSF 6548 west, Mr. Jones you will be held at CP East Grants for Amtrak #4 to crossover to Main 1. You will then have the signal to proceed on Main 2." This is a hypothetical I created to illustrate what I heard sometimes. I have also ridden #3 and #4 in the dome lounge with my scanner on and heard the DS's attempts to expedite #3 & #4 through the many freight trains. Perhaps others have more personal knowlege about BNSF's system dispatching but what I observed was, to me, impressive.
DC, as a current prisoner on Amtrak #4 in the territory you're mentioning, I wish I could relate! Of course, motive power problems are what they are...Balt, not exctly on-subject, but I certainly related to your situation at retirement. I had three years as Numero Uno before retiring, and the next guy to go was eight years in seniority (six years in actual age) behind me. The guy on the top of the heap now has about ten years before age 60 rolls round for him.I would say, offhand, that our job as car retarder operator had more in common with an air traffic controller than with a dispatcher. We had moves to react to several times a minute, and our field was constantly changing (fullness of bowl tracks).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
dehusmanA GE Harris product. The UP bought it years ago, GE could never get it to work right and UP ended up not using it. GE worked on it some more and sold it to the NS. Last I heard the NS is still having some of the same issues as the UP did.
The train dispatching function works great. Lots and lots of teething problems. Took nearly 20 years from signing contract to complete rollout. Even the movement planner is working pretty well these days, although not in high density terminal areas - the data quality in terms of what trains will enter the territory when and where is deficient.
Biggest payoff will be when UTCS and LEADER start talking to each other. Can actually plan timed meets and save some nice chunks of fuel for free. Next up after that will be getting the yard planner tool that's under development to talk to UTCS. That'll give much better control of traffic entering and terminating at major terminals.
It's all about using technology to deliver precision railroading above and beyond what the current state of the art.
oltmannd BaltACD In my dealings with NS, they have had failures at their office that handles VRE commuters from Alexandria to Manassas and they were dead in the water until those issues were fixed. Teething problems with UTCS... They've been pretty rare. NS has 10 dispatching offices - one per division. Let me see if I can remeber... Atlanta - Georgia Birmingham - Alabama Greenville - Piedmont Harrisburg - Harrisburg Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh Dearborn - Dearborn Decatur - Illinois Bellevue - Lake Knoxville - Central Roanoke - Virginia The dispatching system is GE's UTCS. All divisions run on the same server and there is a hot backup as well as a disaster recovery server. Any desk on the network can dispatch any territory and there is a disaster recovery location (one for the whole network) so that, should a dispatch center have a long term issue, the division can be dispatched remotely.
BaltACD In my dealings with NS, they have had failures at their office that handles VRE commuters from Alexandria to Manassas and they were dead in the water until those issues were fixed.
NS' Lake Division is dispatched from Fort Wayne, Indiana.
dehusman [snipped - PDN] . . . Most of the planners work well on single track, but have issues on multiple track, too many options for routing. The larger the railroad, the more you have to break down the railroad into smaller territories because planning a huge area takes too long (replans have to be able to be done in less than a couple minutes). That creates problems because territory A can plan to put a train approaching a boundary from territory B into a siding, while territory B can plan to put the train approaching from territory A into a siding. That creates a conflict that the two territories have to resolve. But when they resolve it, one or both territories have to replan, which can change the boundary conditions, which creates a new conflict, which causes a replan, which creates a new boundary conflict, which creates a new replan, etc, etc. They have resolved some of this but its still a work in progress.
- PDN.
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