Cal, di you know that most, if not all, of Ohio was originally in the Central time zone? The line between the Eastern and Central zones is, I believe, the most adjusted of all the lines.
When my parents went from Virginia to Florida in January of 1919, they were told to change their watches in Columbia, S.C. In the thirties, railroads east and north of Atlanta operated on Eastern time; Bristol, Va.-Tenn, and Asheville, N.C. were change points. In 1947, Chattanooga was still in the Central zone.
Even now, the people who live in eastern Tennessee and have business in Nashville would like the boundary to be moved west of Nashville so they can get home earlier.
Johnny
Time zones have generally creep westward. Much of Indiana is eastern. At one time most of east Tennessee and Georgia west of Atlanta was central and now is eastern. Some of Alabama just west of Georgia is also eastern. Past proposals to have all Alabama eastern have gone no where. Maybe because of AL - GA rivalary ?
Costa Rica and most of central America west is in central zone even tough CR is east of much of USA eastern.
It would be interesting to see what major time zone changes have occurred ? Know that Boston really has problems not being in the Atlantic zone and probably welcomes DST. 1500 - 1600 dark times in winter there sucks.
Stay tuned Carl. Something is afoot in Lansing about DST.
Norm
I have to take exception to the title of this thread: standard time may be Railroad Time, but Daylight Savings Time was inflicted upon the railroads, just as it was on (nearly) everyone else. (Don't get me wrong; I'd appreciate DST year-round, here at the eastern edge of the Central Time zone.)Michigan was, in the old days, one of the hold-outs, sticking with Eastern Standard Time year-round (this changed in the 1966 or 1967 time frame mentioned earlier). But guess what: C&O's Northern Region passenger trains, which were crewed out of Grand Rapids, were scheduled based on Chicago time (that should be refined to say the Chicago-to-Grand Rapids trains, as well as the branch-line trains from Holland to Muskegon). That meant that in the summer, the Michigan trains ran earlier. There was some compromise: the morning trains from Grand Rapids and Muskegon to Chicago had their schedules adjusted by 30 minutes. I also believe that the overnight passenger trains (mostly for mail) were based on the Michigan times.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I have a couple of NYC public timetables which reference the time change.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Johnny (Deggesty) said "...Yes, some people have great difficulty with time changes. Conductor Moedinger presented a nice vignette in one of the installations of his memoirs. A lady asked him what time they would arrive at a certin station, and he told her. She then asked her if the time were daylight or standard. After he failed to get her to understand his answer, he said that they would arrive in so many minutes, and her response was, "Is that daylight or standard?"
To be certain that my watch shows the correct time as I travel, I simply remember which time zone I am in and add or subtract hours as is necesary..."
I was never satisfied about the time changes in Indiana effecting the milking of their cows.. My former father-in-law [who was from Weeling, West By-god] loved to tell the story about going from Wheeling to Pittsburg, and how the time changed 7 times on that trip. Don't know how true that was, but never heard anyone challenge him on it.
jeffhergertEven so, most railroads back when employee time tables had schedules, issued new time tables on the day of the [DST] changes.
Lots of RRs had trains that had to run at the same local clock time year round-- so before 1966 they needed a new empl TT twice a year (except LIRR, which ran on DST in the summer). But western RRs whose passenger trains ran on Standard Time year round (SFe, UP, etc) could keep the same empl TT year round.
DeggestyI just checked some Southern ETT's that were in effect during the DST time in 1967, and they all show only Eastern or Central standard time.
greyhounds OK, here's some time related thingies that are not important. 1) A state legislature has long held the power to reject Daylight Savings Time. If that is what Iowa wants, they should get it. Personally, I don't care what time it is in Iowa. 2) I like DST because I'm not really a morning person. More daylight in the evening is to my liking. 3) To celebrate my recent retirement my girlfriend (Good Lord, I'm 66 and have a "girlfriend") and I ventured to Las Vegas. One afternoon we went our seperate ways with my own self going to the race/sports book to win some money on Florida Greyhound races. She was to call me at 7:00 PM to set up our plans for dinner. Well, she called me at 7:00 PM Chicago time. And I missed the call. So that had to get settled before dinner. "But honey, we're not in Illinois, we're in Las Vegas. When it's 7 in Chicago it's only 5 here." This whole time thing is so simple, but it can lead to problems.
OK, here's some time related thingies that are not important.
1) A state legislature has long held the power to reject Daylight Savings Time. If that is what Iowa wants, they should get it. Personally, I don't care what time it is in Iowa.
2) I like DST because I'm not really a morning person. More daylight in the evening is to my liking.
3) To celebrate my recent retirement my girlfriend (Good Lord, I'm 66 and have a "girlfriend") and I ventured to Las Vegas. One afternoon we went our seperate ways with my own self going to the race/sports book to win some money on Florida Greyhound races. She was to call me at 7:00 PM to set up our plans for dinner. Well, she called me at 7:00 PM Chicago time. And I missed the call.
So that had to get settled before dinner. "But honey, we're not in Illinois, we're in Las Vegas. When it's 7 in Chicago it's only 5 here." This whole time thing is so simple, but it can lead to problems.
To be certain that my watch shows the correct time as I travel, I simply remember which time zone I am in and add or subtract hours as is necesary.
Great story, Ken! "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas!"
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
RE: Kids going to school in the Dark (or comng home in the Dark).
During daylight, School Buses are obviously school buses - they are big, they are yellow and their flashing lights can be seen along with their being yellow.
In darkness - if you are following a school bus you can see it's yellow in addition to it's flashing lights. If you are operating in the opposite direction of the school bus all you see are flashing lights - which, in reality are just like thousands of other flashing lights we experience in our day to day travels - nothing to SHOUT OUT and say SCHOOL BUS! Most of us have now had the opportunity of follow some form of Emergency Vehicle that has 'highly reflective' protective 'tape' on the vehicles rear end. Why isn't this type of highly reflective material, with mostly Yellow required on the front end of School Buses? Make the School Bus SHOUT School Bus in the light and in the dark.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
cx500 Or we could simplify everything and use GMT. That way the whole world will be in the same time zone and even when travelling you'd never need to reset your watch!
Or we could simplify everything and use GMT. That way the whole world will be in the same time zone and even when travelling you'd never need to reset your watch!
Every four years, the whole world is in the same time zone when the World Cup for football (not the American variant) is contested.
HEY! I live in Iowa... and I don't care what time it is either... I don't even care what day it is!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
cx500Farmers didn't like it, but I could never see much reason why they couldn't continue to operate the farm on the time of their choice.
It's a little murky in my old mind, but I remember reading that cows on dairy farms had trouble adjusting to the different milking times. I think this was because the farmers had to meet the earlier (in real time) scheduled times for shipment, so the farmers really had no choice.
And Johnny, I agree with you. I never did like DST. My father used to say that it was designed for golfers so they could get in a few rounds after work.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
jeffhergert Deggesty ChuckCobleigh I may be mis-remembering, but my recollection from 1964 is that the ATSF passenger timetable was in standard time only, with some bold-face reminders of that fact scattered around the document. Time zones were correct, but dayight savings time was ignored. 1967 was the year that DST was enforced over the entire country except in the states whose legislatures stood up and said, "We will not conform to this stupidity." It had been more or less local option as to being observed and as to when the observance began and ended each year. I was told once that railroads didn't observe daylight saving's time years ago. Even so, most railroads back when employee time tables had schedules, issued new time tables on the day of the changes. Jeff
Deggesty ChuckCobleigh I may be mis-remembering, but my recollection from 1964 is that the ATSF passenger timetable was in standard time only, with some bold-face reminders of that fact scattered around the document. Time zones were correct, but dayight savings time was ignored. 1967 was the year that DST was enforced over the entire country except in the states whose legislatures stood up and said, "We will not conform to this stupidity." It had been more or less local option as to being observed and as to when the observance began and ended each year.
ChuckCobleigh I may be mis-remembering, but my recollection from 1964 is that the ATSF passenger timetable was in standard time only, with some bold-face reminders of that fact scattered around the document. Time zones were correct, but dayight savings time was ignored.
I may be mis-remembering, but my recollection from 1964 is that the ATSF passenger timetable was in standard time only, with some bold-face reminders of that fact scattered around the document. Time zones were correct, but dayight savings time was ignored.
1967 was the year that DST was enforced over the entire country except in the states whose legislatures stood up and said, "We will not conform to this stupidity."
It had been more or less local option as to being observed and as to when the observance began and ended each year.
I was told once that railroads didn't observe daylight saving's time years ago. Even so, most railroads back when employee time tables had schedules, issued new time tables on the day of the changes.
Jeff
First, I am no fan of Daylight Saving Time. When I was OTR driving, it was a giant pain to deal with ( timezones and appointments). iN iNDIANA parts observe DST while in the adjacent county Standard Time is the measure without a change to DST. In the West the Navajo Nation observes only Standard Time, while the Hopi Indian Reservation observes DST. [The Hopi Nation is surrounded by the Navajo Nation. Creating a 'Donut' of a Time Zone, in Arizona...
So diggin' in today I found information that we can generally thank Benjamin Franklin, who wrote an economics paper (for a exercise) while living and working in France "...American inventor, and politician Benjamin Franklin wrote an essay called “An Economical Project for Diminishing the Cost of Light” to the editor of The Journal of Paris in 1784. In the essay, he suggested, although jokingly, that Parisians could economize candle usage by getting people out of bed earlier in the morning, making use of the natural morning light instead..."
The application of DST can be traced back to 1916 when Woodrow Wilson implemented it to assist with the WWI war effort. Ditto for Franklin Roosevelt in 1942 for WWII.
See the website below for about all you wanted to know about DST: http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/index.html
I found one statement that noted prior to a National Standard Time, being implemented. The anual printing bill for all railroads for their timetables amounted to $12 Million dollars. (?)
I just checked some Southern ETT's that were in effect during the DST time in 1967, and they all show only Eastern or Central standard time. I did not think to compare them with the Passenger TT.
Deggesty1967 was the year that DST was enforced over the entire country except in the states whose legislatures stood up and said, "We will not conform to this stupidity." It had been more or less local option as to being observed and as to when the observance began and ended each year.
Johnny, you'll appreciate this. In 1979 I attended a two-week manufacturer training session in Salt Lake City in probably mid-July. We arrived on Sunday afternoon about dinner time and checked into the hotel and had dinner. The day's drive from Las Vegas had been tiring, so I decided to turn in at about nine. When we turned the lights out, there was considerable light leaking around the drapes which made me think that SLC had some pretty bright street lights. I peeked out to see and discovered plenty of "saved daylight" still coming in.
It was nice to have that extra hour (compared to San Diego) of after-dinner sightseeing time during the two weeks.
On a more serious note, up here north of the 49th Parallel I appreciate the extra hour of evening daylight in the summer. In the shortest days of winter switching back to standard time helps make the mornings more bearable.
Farmers didn't like it, but I could never see much reason why they couldn't continue to operate the farm on the time of their choice. Might have to remember church service in town was at a different hour of course.
I remember when the commuter train timetables were issued in Standard Time, even though the city (and the trains themselves) functioned on Daylight Time for 6 months of the year. The 4:15pm train still ran at 4:15pm, even though the public timetable showed it as 3:15pm.
John
Here in South Dakota, we're pretty far north and have a short growing season. Our crops need that extra hour of sunlight DST provides to do their best!
Or so it's said.
Victrola1You leave Chicago at 14:00 and arrive in Iowa at 16:30. 205 miles in 2.5 hours for a 82 mph average. Accomplishing high speed rail goes to hell when you go from Creston, IA to Omaha, NE.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Technically the preferred solution, and the smartest is to make DST the new Standard Time, and before anyone starts complaining...the original reason for DST was because of FARMERS, to allow them an extra hour of working the fields. Now people complain about it being so dark when kids go to school in the morning. We run DST from March to November, basically 2/3 of the year, why not just bite the bullet and change it to year around. I'd personally rather have the extra hour in the afternoon, than worry about the morning.
A local fire department used to set off their siren every day at noon. Problem was, the station was in a building with a large backup generator, and the folks responsible for the building would test the generator each week - by shutting off power to the building so the generator would have to respond. It took several minutes for the generator to take the load (by design), but that meant the clock that set off the siren would then be several minutes slow. It usually got taken care of fairly quickly, but sometimes the "noon" siren was as much as 15 minutes late...
As an amateur radio operator, one of the modes of communication I play with is "JT65." Transmissions from all stations start at the top of the minute, and that timing is important, if not super critical.
I have a program on my computer that checks with the various time standards and corrects the time on the computer down to a fraction of a minute.
I remember a short story in Reader's Digest many (too many) years ago... as best as I can remember it now, it was about a village clockmaker/jeweler that noticed a certain man stopped at the window of his shop every morning and adjusted his watch to the clocks displayed in the shop window. The clockmaker made sure all of the clocks in the window were the same and correct to the time of the noon whistle from the village sawmill.
The man stopped by the shop to adjust his watch every morning for many years. One morning the jeweler went out of his shop to talk to the man and comment about his setting his watch every day because he was impressed by the man wanting to always have the correct time.
The man responded that he had to make sure his watch was correct because he was responsible for blowing the noon whistle at the sawmill and he knew that everybody relied on that noon whistle to know what time it was.
Speaking of railroads having their own standard time...
A book of the history of Milford, Michigan is entitled "Ten Minutes Ahead of the Rest of the World," a nod to a youthful prank that was not immediately discovered and caused a fair amount of consternation until it was.
Seems several boys managed to set the telephone operator's clock ten minutes fast. Of course, that being the "standard" (the operator was responsible for blowing the noon whistle precisely at noon), everyone else adjusted their clocks as well. There was some confusion as several trains failed to arrive on time and people were arriving early for out-of town appointments.
Eventually (after several days), the discrepancy was found and corrected, but, as noted in the beginning of the book, "...in the meantime, Milford was not only the prettiest little village in Michigan, it was ten minutes ahead of the rest of the world."
Saskatchewan has never enacted Daylight Savings Time...Central Time all the time.
The Southwest Chief would present an interesting schedule if Iowa alone changes time. Ft. Madison is the Southwest Chief's only Iowa stop.
You would travel 58 miles from Galesburg, IL to Ft. Madison, IA in -4 minutes on the timetable. Warp speed would vanish in Ft. Madison and there would rapid be deceleration upon crossing the Des Moines River into Missouri.
People do not depend on rail travel as they did in 1883. When every city and village ran on their own time the result was confusion akin to most understanding Quantum Physics.
Iowa staying on Standard time year round is not likely to become law.
Victrola1 Non contiguous time zones would be interesting on the California Zephyr. You currently leave Chicago at say 14:00 and cross the Mississippi. Arrive in Burlington, Iowa at 17:30. 205 miles in 3.5 hours for a 58 mph average. Make Iowa an island of standard time surrounded by daylight time. You leave Chicago at 14:00 and arrive in Iowa at 16:30. 205 miles in 2.5 hours for a 82 mph average. Accomplishing high speed rail goes to hell when you go from Creston, IA to Omaha, NE.
Non contiguous time zones would be interesting on the California Zephyr.
You currently leave Chicago at say 14:00 and cross the Mississippi. Arrive in Burlington, Iowa at 17:30. 205 miles in 3.5 hours for a 58 mph average.
Make Iowa an island of standard time surrounded by daylight time.
You leave Chicago at 14:00 and arrive in Iowa at 16:30. 205 miles in 2.5 hours for a 82 mph average. Accomplishing high speed rail goes to hell when you go from Creston, IA to Omaha, NE.
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