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Climate Change article

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Posted by chicagorails on Sunday, December 25, 2016 4:44 PM
al gore is making lots of money in renewable energies and tesla is taking our monie
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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, December 25, 2016 2:40 PM

A possible breakthrough in carbon capture from....Exxon-Mobil!

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, December 25, 2016 2:07 PM

greyhounds
The solutions proposed (read Malcom Kenton's deranged blog) inevitably involve the surrender of our liberties and personal wealth to the "authorities" who will decide how we can live and move about.

Citing a foolish young man's (who has ZERO training in climatology) blog as typifying the views of those who see the hazards of global warming, is like citing  Richard Spencer's views on mental health.  His notions (not really ideas) are irrelevant.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, December 25, 2016 1:57 PM

Murphy Siding
What's the difference between a historian and a popular historian?

[The following are generalizations.] Pop historians lack the academic training (Ph.D.) which (academic) historians have.  The latters' works are usually researched in greater depth, especially using whenever possible primary sources. Historians are usually attached to universities.  They submit articles to peer-reviewed journals.  They may write books or stick to articles and monographs.  Their topics are frequently ones that would not likely interest the general public.

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Posted by NKP guy on Sunday, December 25, 2016 1:06 PM

Murphy Siding
What's the difference between a historian and a popular historian?

 

Probably about $100,000 a year.

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Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, December 25, 2016 12:12 PM

Some wise man once posted on these pages that there is no such thing as "Global Climate Stay the Same".  So, as in all things, change is inevitable.

Are we making things "worse" by using cabon based fuels?  How much "worse"?  It's obviously debatable and uncertain.

What we've got to watch for is the use of the ultimate threat. As in: "We're going to destroy our planet if we don't do as the 'experts' tell us".

Another wise man once said:  "War is the friend of the state."  Well, being in a war implies a threat, and such threats are used by governments to limit personal liberties and confiscate personal wealth.  In the past the US Government has done vile things and justified its actions by the threats, real or concocted, that it must "protect" us from.

Examples include: putting Americans in concentration camps because of their race, seizing the telephone system, seizing all radio stations, and refusing to deliver periodicals in the US Mail when those publications disputed official policy.  All these and more were "justified" as necessary to deal with some threat.

Now some people have come up with kind of an ultimate threat: "We're going to destroy our planet if we don't do as we're told."

The solutions proposed (read Malcom Kenton's deranged blog) inevitably involve the surrender of our liberties and personal wealth to the "authorities" who will decide how we can live and move about.

Be very suspicious about surrendering such things.  They won't be regained easily or cheaply.  Cheaply as in terms of money and blood.

 

 

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, December 24, 2016 11:38 PM

schlimm

 

 
Gramp
British historian Paul Johnson

 

Calling a guy with a BA, even from Oxford, a historian is a stretch. He's considered to be a writer and popular historian.  But for rightists (like Stowell) and anti-union folks (Johnson is one) he'd be your hero.

Yes, Sowell found his niche as a fellow at the ultra-right Hoover Institute, but earlier he jumped around academia: Howard, Cornell, Brandeis, Urban Institute, UCLA over a 15 year period.

 

 

What's the difference between a historian and a popular historian?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 24, 2016 4:52 PM

Gramp
British historian Paul Johnson

Calling a guy with a BA, even from Oxford, a historian is a stretch. He's considered to be a writer and popular historian.  But for rightists (like Stowell) and anti-union folks (Johnson is one) he'd be your hero.

Yes, Sowell found his niche as a fellow at the ultra-right Hoover Institute, but earlier he jumped around academia: Howard, Cornell, Brandeis, Urban Institute, UCLA over a 15 year period.

 

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Posted by Gramp on Saturday, December 24, 2016 4:16 PM

schlimm

 

 
Gramp
THE HOUSING BOOM AND BUST by Thomas Sowell

 

Sowell is a brilliant but controversial economist with provocative ideas, who writes about any and all issues, bouncing around from one academic post or think tank to another.  Unfortunately his methodology seems to lack the rigor usually demanded.

 

Sowell has been Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University since 1980.

His CV: http://www.tsowell.com/cv.html

I think generally he sees reality more clearly.  Not a member of "The Matrix".

 

 

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 24, 2016 3:47 PM

The biostatistician?  Not in my bailiwick, but from what I know, his methodology was very influential.

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Posted by RME on Saturday, December 24, 2016 3:28 PM

Schlimm, what's your opinion of Irwin D.J. Bross?

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 24, 2016 9:22 AM

Gramp
THE HOUSING BOOM AND BUST by Thomas Sowell

Sowell is a brilliant but controversial economist with provocative ideas, who writes about any and all issues, bouncing around from one academic post or think tank to another.  Unfortunately his methodology seems to lack the rigor usually demanded.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 24, 2016 9:12 AM

wraithe
I will listen and read but I will always question and consider for myself(probably the reason I didnt do well at school, teachers always called me a smart$%#e..)... The next thing to consider, data or information that is passed on, is it proven and not just accepted, as in peer reviewed... because reviewed means the members of the fraternity accepting that you are right, and if your not liked then your information is dumped as crock... A process that has no merit really, again comes back to a group of bullies and bull...

The peer review process can have its flaws, but it usually catches the problems in the research article submitted. It is rigorous. Ask people in those fields about articles rejected, or articles accepted, published and then ripped to shreds by other researchers.  You clearly only have listened to the propaganda machine financed by self-serving $ from big oil and the coal lobby.  It is certainly superior to uninformed opinions by people who have next to zero knowledge in a given field.

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Posted by wraithe on Friday, December 23, 2016 11:01 PM

erikem

 

 
wraithe

Any body know how much radiation is in the atmosphere from world wide nuclear testing?... How long it will be falling out of the atmosphere?

 

 

In the early 1960's. the typical dose from weapons testing fallout was on the order of 100 milli-REM per year, about the same as the sea-level background dose in areas where radon is not a problem (radon is naturally occurring). By the late 1970's, weapons testing dose was on the order of 2 to 5 milli-REM per year, about the equivalent of a cross country flight. Radiation dose from weapons testing is less than from potassium in the body - naturally occuring radioactive potassium has a half life greater than 10 billion years and is responsible for the Argon that makes up about 1% of the atmosphere.

 

Narrow that down a little and not radiation doses but particles present... Synthetic particles like Plutonium etc that are not present in nature... Now how many of these un-natural elements are present...

No I am not an activist or greenie, I am one of those that question and consider...

I also have experimented with and use tractor exhaust gases to sow with in the paddocks... Proven method to innoculate seed and plants grown with this method handle dry conditions during the early growth stage, better than plants grown without... Also they tolerate frost better... Also have tipped diesel sump oil around trees that have been struggling to grow and seen them surpass the ones that where growing better than, before....

I will listen and read but I will always question and consider for myself(probably the reason I didnt do well at school, teachers always called me a smart$%#e..)...

The next thing to consider, data or information that is passed on, is it proven and not just accepted, as in peer reviewed... because reviewed means the members of the fraternity accepting that you are right, and if your not liked then your information is dumped as crock... A process that has no merit really, again comes back to a group of bullies and bull...

 

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Posted by Gramp on Friday, December 23, 2016 5:37 AM

And by the way, another quote of Paul Johnson's:

As a child I found railroad stations exciting, mysterious, and even beautiful, as indeed they often were.

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Posted by Gramp on Friday, December 23, 2016 5:20 AM

wraithe

...I do wonder why climate change(previously known as Global warming), has become such a big hot potato and nothing else matters but how we are going to survive this massive problem of burning products that produce CO2...

Why is this such a narrow focus of governments and people?

 

Wraithe, I wholeheartedly recommend you read the book, THE HOUSING BOOM AND BUST by Thomas Sowell.  I think you'll find it very helpful.  Available through Amazon and others.

In it he quotes British historian Paul Johnson:

The study of history is a powerful antidote to contemporary arrogance. It is humbling to discover how many of our glib assumptions, which seem to us novel and plausible, have been tested before, not once but many times and in innumerable guises; and discovered to be, at great human cost, wholly false.

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Posted by erikem on Friday, December 23, 2016 1:14 AM

wraithe

Any body know how much radiation is in the atmosphere from world wide nuclear testing?... How long it will be falling out of the atmosphere?

In the early 1960's. the typical dose from weapons testing fallout was on the order of 100 milli-REM per year, about the same as the sea-level background dose in areas where radon is not a problem (radon is naturally occurring). By the late 1970's, weapons testing dose was on the order of 2 to 5 milli-REM per year, about the equivalent of a cross country flight. Radiation dose from weapons testing is less than from potassium in the body - naturally occuring radioactive potassium has a half life greater than 10 billion years and is responsible for the Argon that makes up about 1% of the atmosphere.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:43 AM

Yes, follow the money, and the natural greed of government to tax and regulate every detail of our lives.  Why it just so happens that Climate Change dogma serves this goal with perfection.  What a coincidence!

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:36 AM

There is nothing quite so arrogant as the human being.  Remember not so long ago it was thought that this 'flat rock' we inhabit was the center of the universe with the Sun and Stars all revolving around us.  We continue to project that arrogance in many ways today.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:05 AM

wraithe
Why is this such a narrow focus of governments and people?

Just follow the money...

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:16 AM

I read Physics Today regularly.  This is a very hot topic in that magazine, and there is no uninimity of opionion, with many warning against man-made climate change also admitting that other factors are important, and that we are still learning about their combined effects and the relative wieght of each.  

The arguments are conducted respectfully with people agreeing that they must learn from each other, which is the spirit of this excellent magazine.

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Posted by wraithe on Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:21 AM

I didn't read all the posts but I do wonder why climate change(previously known as Global warming), has become such a big hot potato and nothing else matters but how we are going to survive this massive problem of burning products that produce CO2...

Why is this such a narrow focus of governments and people?

Any body know how much radiation is in the atmosphere from world wide nuclear testing?... How long it will be falling out of the atmosphere?

How much pastic is floating around the oceans? How much this plastic is destroying life as we know it?

These questions are the unknowns and there is very little effort put into solving those problems.. Oil consumption for plastics production is way more than fuel consumption and the plastics go no where... You maybe be able to re-use plastic in other forms but the end result is a synthetic that stays put forever, same as synthesised isotopes...

One of the first posters pointed out solar activity, solar winds have been slowing for quite some time and we have known that these winds extract co2 from our atmosphere, along with other gases... The whole debate on MMCC has become a loosing argument when the IPCC rework there data everytime the raw data does not match the results they predicted in the previous 5 or so years...

The computer modelling for MMCC global warming, was written by Dr David Evans... He stated that the modelling didn't show global warming, thus it didnt exist as man made.. Yet the IPCC still pushed it then changed it to climate change..

Whats wrong with that..."When a lier is shown up, they will change there story to keep making it believable", bit like politicions and lawyers... We dont believe them, why believe a government based panel... "INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL on Climate Change"

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 2:25 PM

As we wander off the beaten path...

Euclid

 

 
Electroliner 1935

When did time start? Will it end? 

 

 

 

That is a good question.  It seems to me that both time and space have to be infinite.  Just as it is impossible to imagine space beginning with nothing preceding it, and ending with nothing beyond it; it is also impossible to imagine time beginning with no time preceding it or ending with no time after the ending of time.  It is actually impossible to imagine there being no time, and being no space. So they have to be infinite, but that is equally impossible to imagine.  

People like defined space and time, and as you note, it is very hard to fathom infinity.

There are stars, galaxies, and other celestial bodies in existance that we'll never know about because the light from them isn't here yet.

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 10:03 PM

Miningman

LensCapOn- Good post...exactly! Divided issue that no one will change their opinion on and it could go on forever and to what end? ...which leads us to........Euclid,- think long and hard about that and I think you go insane or something. The answer is probably simplicity itself, staring us right in the face, "can't see the forest for the trees" thing. We are not there yet but were designed to get there one day. 

 

Yes, I tend to think you on the right track.  Every part of our reality can be observed and taken as what you see is what you get.  It can be studied to learn all of the interaction and behavior; all of the cause and effect.  In that sense, it seems like everything can be learned.  And yet infinity of time and space is also part of our reality, and it is utterly incomprehensible to the thinking mind. 

Because infinity cannot be reconciled with the things that make up reality, that suggests to me that ultimately, those things are not what they appear to be.  The answer to this may be staring us in the face as you say.  It may be accessible somehow by direct experience. 

I know what you mean about the effect of thinking long and hard about the mystery of infinity.  A person can easily express the concept of something continuing forever, but when I actually dwell on trying to visualize it, I start to feel like I might tip over. 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:30 PM

LensCapOn
Why have a piece that can only divide readers and says nothing new?

 

It's usually called freedom of the press.  Why is this such a problem for you that you need to distort positions of those who accept what specialists generally see?  Being a skeptic means not accepting things on blind faith, not denying the prevalent consensus of years of empirical research.  Or calling climatology reseach "junk science." Who are you to denounce this?  Are you an active researcher in the field with a doctorate? We now live in a post-factual age where one opinion is as good as the next, even without much of any foundation of empirical research to support that opinion.   

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:10 PM

LensCapOn- Good post...exactly! Divided issue that no one will change their opinion on and it could go on forever and to what end? ...which leads us to........Euclid,- think long and hard about that and I think you go insane or something. The answer is probably simplicity itself, staring us right in the face, "can't see the forest for the trees" thing. We are not there yet but were designed to get there one day. 

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:49 PM

Electroliner 1935

When did time start? Will it end? 

 

That is a good question.  It seems to me that both time and space have to be infinite.  Just as it is impossible to imagine space beginning with nothing preceding it, and ending with nothing beyond it; it is also impossible to imagine time beginning with no time preceding it or ending with no time after the ending of time.  It is actually impossible to imagine there being no time, and being no space. So they have to be infinite, but that is equally impossible to imagine.    

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Posted by LensCapOn on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:27 PM

Well, this is going smoothly.  What did Trains expect when they ran this article?
 
Well before this article came out it was clear that many people had been schooled for years that Global Warming was absolute fact and talking against it was proof you were an idiot. In which case, how do you argue with them? Then there are the people who are skeptics. Why are there skeptics? Because in science, you’re SUPPOSE to be. It’s complete “show me your proof” and let me look at it, not mere appeals to authority.
 
Who participating in this had their opinion changed? What could anyone post that would change the mind of someone who is already well read on the subject?
 
Why have a piece that can only divide readers and says nothing new?
 
Why not only have articles that are actually ABOUT Trains? Trains is even on your Masthead.
 
I do hope articles like this doesn’t mean you have given up on trains, believing they have no future.
 
A wondering  reader.

 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:32 AM

erikem
I have been very unimpressed with people who claim to be a climatologist but do not have a strong background in meteorlogy. One example is Michael Mann

Climatology is usually housed in meteorology departments but has a very different focus.  Mann's credentials look as good as they get.

Dr. Michael E. Mann is Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at Penn State, with joint appointments in the Department of Geosciences and the Earth and Environmental Systems Institute (EESI). He is also director of the Penn State Earth System Science Center (ESSC).

Dr. Mann received his undergraduate degrees in Physics and Applied Math from the University of California at Berkeley, an M.S. degree in Physics from Yale University, and a Ph.D. in Geology & Geophysics from Yale University. His research involves the use of theoretical models and observational data to better understand Earth's climate system

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