K4s_PRRIf you want to see lite engines come to Oklahoma City! We at times have strings of BNSF locomotives {20 or more} parked along I-235 in a yard. Where they are going and what they are there for I am not sure.
If they are 'parked' and in a yard - they aren't going anywhere, they are stored until business picks up.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
If you want to see lite engines come to Oklahoma City! We at times have strings of BNSF locomotives {20 or more} parked along I-235 in a yard. Where they are going and what they are there for I am not sure.
I don't miss the old days - Mechanical department never maintained the air dump cars, much less the big drum air cylinders. Dumping them was always an adventure (and I never left home without a compromise fitting to charge the air cylinders directly from the gladhand to the main air reservoir) Because of the lack of help from the mechanical department, air lines were never charged en-route. (scary things would happen)
Got called out for a ballast work train one summer day at Selkirk, NY train had 105 cars of ballast 100 ton per car. The power assigned was 5 GP-38-2 engines. When I found out we would be dumping all the cars from Niverville east and discovered the entire train was Divco differential dump cars I requested a change of power to three Ge U-23C locomotive's who's normal assignment was hump power. When I informed the track foreman that meant I could have the throttle in the 6th notch and with hump control turned on creep along at the speed he required using the rheostat to control traction power and maintain main resivour pressure 130-140 psi. That's when I found out he didn't intend to charge the air main line until we got to Niverville! After we tied on he had the car department hook up and open the main resivour line and was shocked that it took over an hour to reach 130 psi on the locomotive and train. Once we arrived and starting dumping stone we didnt have any real problem though every time they dumped a new load i'd watch the air compressor's go nuts recharging the engines. At low or near idle I never would have been able to keep up with the air demands. The track foreman was relatively new promoted 8 months earlier college boy but knew his job. Just didn't consider each side dump car has 6 times the air capacity of a single locomotive and this was in the old school compressor driven off an extension from the engine crankshaft full throttle EMD 254 cubic feet per minute. GE? 312 cubic feet per minute still mechanically driven. Modern locomotives use electrically driven air compressors with around 400 CFM because when hauling 100 + cars and releasing a brake application with one diesel on the head end you need air capacity to completely release the brake.
i miss the old days
jeffhergert Murphy Siding jeffhergert Trip Optimizer and LEADER auto-throttle version can only run the throttle/dynamic brake part. If the use of air brakes is required both systems will prompt the engineer when and how much of an application to make. When to increase an application and when to release the application. The LEADER system, when it is suspended by the engineer, seems to still prompt air brake applications and releases. These systems are called Clear Block systems. They don't recognize signal/end of authority inputs. That's one reason the systems have to be suspended at times. I have noticed a few times when stopping at an absolute red signal on the side of a good stiff grade, LEADER prompts to release the air brakes with the system suspended. Someday, someone is going to space off and automatically follow the prompt. Releasing the air and then running through the signal, if not into the side of a train going through the control point. Jeff What is the prompt like? A human(sort of)voice like Siri?....at the next red signal, stop before crashing into another train..... The prompt is an audible buzz or beep, assuming it's working, plus a message on the screen. The systems don't see the red signal. They think you have nothing but clear blocks with authority to run all the way to the end point of your trip. Compliance with the system prompts (non-auto throttle LEADER version where the engineer physically moves the throttle/dynamic brake handle in response to the system prompts) is mandatory and must be made within 15 seconds of receiving the prompt. That is, when the system beeps and makes a prompt you have 15 seconds to make the change to be in compliance. It's not unusual to get one where the audible alert doesn't work. Then you have to keep an eye on the screen for the visual change. The thing changes "its" mind often. You can't assume the system is going to make the same throttle change you would. You have to look to see what it wants. Often it will want to drop a notch when you would think it should go up one instead, etc. It really at times can be a big distraction. You sometimes seem to spend more time looking at the screen than out the front window. When I say "space off," what I'm really saying is an engineer may be in a situation where they are trying to process multiple things happening at the same time, the system will prompt to release the brakes and the engineer being conditioned to follow the prompts will without thinking do the wrong thing. Jeff
Murphy Siding jeffhergert Trip Optimizer and LEADER auto-throttle version can only run the throttle/dynamic brake part. If the use of air brakes is required both systems will prompt the engineer when and how much of an application to make. When to increase an application and when to release the application. The LEADER system, when it is suspended by the engineer, seems to still prompt air brake applications and releases. These systems are called Clear Block systems. They don't recognize signal/end of authority inputs. That's one reason the systems have to be suspended at times. I have noticed a few times when stopping at an absolute red signal on the side of a good stiff grade, LEADER prompts to release the air brakes with the system suspended. Someday, someone is going to space off and automatically follow the prompt. Releasing the air and then running through the signal, if not into the side of a train going through the control point. Jeff What is the prompt like? A human(sort of)voice like Siri?....at the next red signal, stop before crashing into another train.....
jeffhergert Trip Optimizer and LEADER auto-throttle version can only run the throttle/dynamic brake part. If the use of air brakes is required both systems will prompt the engineer when and how much of an application to make. When to increase an application and when to release the application. The LEADER system, when it is suspended by the engineer, seems to still prompt air brake applications and releases. These systems are called Clear Block systems. They don't recognize signal/end of authority inputs. That's one reason the systems have to be suspended at times. I have noticed a few times when stopping at an absolute red signal on the side of a good stiff grade, LEADER prompts to release the air brakes with the system suspended. Someday, someone is going to space off and automatically follow the prompt. Releasing the air and then running through the signal, if not into the side of a train going through the control point. Jeff
Trip Optimizer and LEADER auto-throttle version can only run the throttle/dynamic brake part. If the use of air brakes is required both systems will prompt the engineer when and how much of an application to make. When to increase an application and when to release the application.
The LEADER system, when it is suspended by the engineer, seems to still prompt air brake applications and releases. These systems are called Clear Block systems. They don't recognize signal/end of authority inputs. That's one reason the systems have to be suspended at times.
I have noticed a few times when stopping at an absolute red signal on the side of a good stiff grade, LEADER prompts to release the air brakes with the system suspended. Someday, someone is going to space off and automatically follow the prompt. Releasing the air and then running through the signal, if not into the side of a train going through the control point.
Jeff
What is the prompt like? A human(sort of)voice like Siri?....at the next red signal, stop before crashing into another train.....
The prompt is an audible buzz or beep, assuming it's working, plus a message on the screen. The systems don't see the red signal. They think you have nothing but clear blocks with authority to run all the way to the end point of your trip.
Compliance with the system prompts (non-auto throttle LEADER version where the engineer physically moves the throttle/dynamic brake handle in response to the system prompts) is mandatory and must be made within 15 seconds of receiving the prompt. That is, when the system beeps and makes a prompt you have 15 seconds to make the change to be in compliance. It's not unusual to get one where the audible alert doesn't work. Then you have to keep an eye on the screen for the visual change. The thing changes "its" mind often. You can't assume the system is going to make the same throttle change you would. You have to look to see what it wants. Often it will want to drop a notch when you would think it should go up one instead, etc. It really at times can be a big distraction. You sometimes seem to spend more time looking at the screen than out the front window.
When I say "space off," what I'm really saying is an engineer may be in a situation where they are trying to process multiple things happening at the same time, the system will prompt to release the brakes and the engineer being conditioned to follow the prompts will without thinking do the wrong thing.
I am so glad that I'm retired; all this henpecking by a mindless computer would drive me over the edge!
Now, back in the "good old days" all we had to contend with were mindless Trainmasters.
Murphy Siding CHIPSTRAINS IT IS QUITE COMMON TO SEE AS MANY AS 12 LOCOMOTIVES RUNNING LIGHT ON THE TRANSCON, AT WILLIAMS, COMING OFF THE "PEAVINE LINE" OUTTA PHOENIX, ENROUTE TO WINSLOW AZ If they end of with a surplus of engines at one end of the pike, do they also end up with a surplus of crews that brought them there?
CHIPSTRAINS IT IS QUITE COMMON TO SEE AS MANY AS 12 LOCOMOTIVES RUNNING LIGHT ON THE TRANSCON, AT WILLIAMS, COMING OFF THE "PEAVINE LINE" OUTTA PHOENIX, ENROUTE TO WINSLOW AZ
IT IS QUITE COMMON TO SEE AS MANY AS 12 LOCOMOTIVES RUNNING LIGHT ON THE TRANSCON, AT WILLIAMS, COMING OFF THE "PEAVINE LINE" OUTTA PHOENIX, ENROUTE TO WINSLOW AZ
If they end of with a surplus of engines at one end of the pike, do they also end up with a surplus of crews that brought them there?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Times have changed (at least on my carrier) on the most effective way to handle power. 'In the day' the theory was to taylor the amount of power to the size of the train. Today the theory is to use 'standard' power for scheduled trains with the understanding that when those trains get to their final terminals they will then turn as scheduled trains back to the origin terminal. Scheduled trains provide power for the scheduled network.
With the unscheduled network, back in the day, power was also tailored to the train. 4 units to bring a coal train to tidewater, 2 units to take empties from tidewater back to the mine and thus be 2 units short for the next load. Today, to the extent practical coal trains run with 2 AC units to tidewater and the empties return to the mines with equivalent power that is intended to be good for the round trip back to tidewater. Needless to say the ebb and flow of business has to be adjusted to.
Back in the day 4 units would bring in 150 loads of coal. 2 units could handle 150 empties back to the mines and the terminal would end up with surplus power. However, if ore boats arrived and ore was to be moved from tidewater West to the mills the equation changed drastically. the 150 loads of coal, when turned into 150 loads of iron ore required 4 units to handle 75 loads of ore or 8 units to handle the entire 150 cars.
Juggling power to meet all the competing needs for it is an art in itself, especially when you start to figure in engine failure that can only be fixed at a major shop and/or engines that will become out of service if they don't recieve their Quarterly inspecting by the specified date. Throw in requirements of having Train Control equipped engines leading specific trains, having PTC functioning engines leading other specific trains, having steerable truck engines on other trains, etc. etc. etc.
Remember excess power can't be sent to the proper terminal by taxi cab like crews can.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
blhanel jeffhergert Many years ago, sometime in the 1980s, I went to what was called a railroader's reunion over near a historical musuem complex near Cedar Rapids IA (A recreation of a late 1800s/early 1900s village called Usher's Ferry.) It was an annual event (do they still have them?) where one year someone from Rockwell-Collins had a presentation of their ARES they were developing. The full blown system was envisioned to be able to do it all, including blowing the whistle. Jeff .. Re your question above, Jeff, doesn't look like they hold this event anymore. I suspect it ended after the flood of 2008.
jeffhergert Many years ago, sometime in the 1980s, I went to what was called a railroader's reunion over near a historical musuem complex near Cedar Rapids IA (A recreation of a late 1800s/early 1900s village called Usher's Ferry.) It was an annual event (do they still have them?) where one year someone from Rockwell-Collins had a presentation of their ARES they were developing. The full blown system was envisioned to be able to do it all, including blowing the whistle. Jeff ..
Many years ago, sometime in the 1980s, I went to what was called a railroader's reunion over near a historical musuem complex near Cedar Rapids IA (A recreation of a late 1800s/early 1900s village called Usher's Ferry.) It was an annual event (do they still have them?) where one year someone from Rockwell-Collins had a presentation of their ARES they were developing. The full blown system was envisioned to be able to do it all, including blowing the whistle.
..
Re your question above, Jeff, doesn't look like they hold this event anymore. I suspect it ended after the flood of 2008.
As I remember the event, once they had honored all the RR's that had service in the area at one time, everybody lost interest in it.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
Murphy Siding jeffhergert Compliance with the system prompts (non-auto throttle LEADER version where the engineer physically moves the throttle/dynamic brake handle in response to the system prompts) is mandatory and must be made within 15 seconds of receiving the prompt. That is, when the system beeps and makes a prompt you have 15 seconds to make the change to be in compliance. Jeff What happens if you don't make the change and aren't in compliance?
jeffhergert Compliance with the system prompts (non-auto throttle LEADER version where the engineer physically moves the throttle/dynamic brake handle in response to the system prompts) is mandatory and must be made within 15 seconds of receiving the prompt. That is, when the system beeps and makes a prompt you have 15 seconds to make the change to be in compliance. Jeff
Compliance with the system prompts (non-auto throttle LEADER version where the engineer physically moves the throttle/dynamic brake handle in response to the system prompts) is mandatory and must be made within 15 seconds of receiving the prompt. That is, when the system beeps and makes a prompt you have 15 seconds to make the change to be in compliance.
What happens if you don't make the change and aren't in compliance?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
My bigger fear going forward is that the 'new group' of engineers will never learn the real rational of how to operate a locomotive and it's trailing train, but will instead rely upon the promptings from 'Leader' or 'Trip Optimiser' and won't know when they have been lead down the track to disaster. Same issues apply to pilots that rely so much on autopilot that they have basically forgotten the critical elements of flying planes themselves.
Use it or lose it!
jeffhergert mvlandsw Murphy Siding Interesting that light trains ride rougher. As far as being harder to maintain the correct speed, isn't that what the cruise control is for? GE's Trip Optimizer is supposed to do that. So does the second version of NYAB's LEADER system. Trip Optimizer is the better of the two. They are more than cruise control. They will slow the train down for speed restrictions and increase speed back up after clearing the restriction. Jeff
mvlandsw Murphy Siding Interesting that light trains ride rougher. As far as being harder to maintain the correct speed, isn't that what the cruise control is for? GE's Trip Optimizer is supposed to do that.
Murphy Siding Interesting that light trains ride rougher. As far as being harder to maintain the correct speed, isn't that what the cruise control is for?
Interesting that light trains ride rougher. As far as being harder to maintain the correct speed, isn't that what the cruise control is for?
GE's Trip Optimizer is supposed to do that.
So does the second version of NYAB's LEADER system.
Trip Optimizer is the better of the two.
They are more than cruise control. They will slow the train down for speed restrictions and increase speed back up after clearing the restriction.
On locomotives that is called Pacesetter, and it only works at 10 MPH or less.
As for running light engines, CN restricts 1 unit by itself to 30 MPH and 2 units or 1 unit and 1 car to 50 MPH, with 3 pieces of equipment you can do track speed.
And in my experience the rough riding is not caused so much by the lack of cars, but the lack of power being transmitted at the wheel/rail interface. With the units in low throttle, low dynamic braking or idle you will get a very rough ride, even if you are pulling a train. With light engines you don't need to apply those heavy forces so they ride rough all the time as a result.
On my territory there are a couple crossovers that are renowned for their rough track, no matter what Engineering does to try and fix it. To smooth out the ride everyone tries to approach them going less than track speed, and then throttle up so you are pulling with full power as you go through them, and it does noticeably smooth out the ride.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Hey Murphy,
If you really want a locomotive Ed Blysard's grand daughter may have a used one for sale.
Norm
On a locomotive, that's for really low speed application (glorified rheostat).
Murphy Siding zugmann You'd think so, but running lite power is a pain in the butt. How's that?
zugmann You'd think so, but running lite power is a pain in the butt.
You'd think so, but running lite power is a pain in the butt.
How's that?
We can run light power at the maximum freight train speed, provided speed can be controlled by dynamic braking, which on a couple of subdivisions for me is 70mph.
Except, if you have 12 or less physical axles (2-six axle locomotives) you have to be prepared to stop at crossings with lights and gates until you can see that they have activated and provide protection. (More of a problem on lightly used trackage where a layer of rust might develope on the rail.)
Light power rides rougher than engines pulling cars. I have had a few where we could run 70, not worry about crossings but ran around 50 just because the ride was so bad. And those were newer engines. Some older/worn engines can ride just as bad at the slower speeds.
Not to mention on light power you will probably be doing a lot more throttle/dynamic brake manipulations to maintain speed. On a nice long heavy train, in some places, you might put the throttle in notch 8 and leave it there for quite a while. Just blow the whistle now and then.
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