blue streak 1 Can imagine that RRs would not like amonia and chlorine close together ? If you don't know what the mixture is well -- just say WW-1.
Can imagine that RRs would not like amonia and chlorine close together ? If you don't know what the mixture is well -- just say WW-1.
There is no issue with those two being next to each other.
The placement rules for different types of dangerous goods being next to each other really aren't that strict.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
1170 is elthanol. Plenty of free apps for smartphones that are easy to use. I use Hazmat Pocket Guide and DOT Lookup.
AMTK 281 BaltACD Convicted One There are spcific HAZMAT placement restrictions to observe when building trains. They are too involved to repeat here. A similar question I have always wondered about is are tankers washed out after each use so that the next product isn't contaminated/possible big boom? Or do they mostly go between two locations carrying the same thing for long periods of time unit-train style?
BaltACD Convicted One There are spcific HAZMAT placement restrictions to observe when building trains. They are too involved to repeat here.
Convicted One
There are spcific HAZMAT placement restrictions to observe when building trains. They are too involved to repeat here.
A similar question I have always wondered about is are tankers washed out after each use so that the next product isn't contaminated/possible big boom? Or do they mostly go between two locations carrying the same thing for long periods of time unit-train style?
Railroad tank cars are normally leased by tank car leasing companies to the shipper. They remain in captive service as long as that shipper maintains the lease; we are not talking trip leases. If and/or when the shipper decides to terminate the lease, the car owner will have the car thoroughly cleaned before leasing again (I have no idea if the car owner knows what particular substance(s) the car was hauling when under the lease).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
BaltACD Convicted One I'd find it interesting to know if there are specific chemical combinations fobidden to be near one another in the same consist? For instance something highly toxic (acetone cyanohydrin) next to something highly explosive (ethylene oxide), stuff like that. There are spcific HAZMAT placement restrictions to observe when building trains. They are too involved to repeat here.
Convicted One I'd find it interesting to know if there are specific chemical combinations fobidden to be near one another in the same consist? For instance something highly toxic (acetone cyanohydrin) next to something highly explosive (ethylene oxide), stuff like that.
Euclid It is hard to describe what something smells like if nothing else smells like it. Vinegar: A vinegar-like odor.
It is hard to describe what something smells like if nothing else smells like it.
Vinegar: A vinegar-like odor.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
RMEInsidiously, quickly-fatal concentrations of HCN or other cyanides/producers can be masked by other chemical smells, for example burning acrylonitrile -- the "A" in the ABS plastic you're overheating when cutting (and as encountered in a recent accident where a broken axle set a tank-car on fire).
Yes, Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. I have made quite a few product models out of that plastic mostly by cutting and fabricating from sheet stock in the range of .125-.250 thick. Once you get the hang of how to apply the solvent and squeeze the joint, it welds beautifully, and makes assemblies that are incredibly strong.
But that acrid odor when cutting or machining ABS is a bit annoying. I could not get a straight answer from G.E. as to what the odor was or whether it was harmful.
I have also worked with polycarbonate and acrylic, but ABS is my favorite.
RME Citrus-scented? What I remember they added was allyl isothiocyanate, to give it that irritating mustardy tang. Before that, the 'best' glue for models in my early childhood was something called Styro-Weld, back in the days that glue came in a soft metal tube that had to be opened and then kept sealed with a pin. That stuff had a wonderful ethereal scent, which rapidly got engineered out of circulation (either for health or 'sniffing-prevention' reasons). When I got to orgo I sampled a few of the solvents to figure out what awful liver-cancerizing substance might have had such a good smell, but never did discover the answer. Does anyone here know for sure?
Citrus-scented? What I remember they added was allyl isothiocyanate, to give it that irritating mustardy tang. Before that, the 'best' glue for models in my early childhood was something called Styro-Weld, back in the days that glue came in a soft metal tube that had to be opened and then kept sealed with a pin. That stuff had a wonderful ethereal scent, which rapidly got engineered out of circulation (either for health or 'sniffing-prevention' reasons). When I got to orgo I sampled a few of the solvents to figure out what awful liver-cancerizing substance might have had such a good smell, but never did discover the answer. Does anyone here know for sure?
Shouldn't that last one be "Acetic acid" (or glacial acetic acid or acetic acid anhydride)?
And the reference to acrylic does have some answers (as anyone who has bought plexiglas sheet knows when they work with it) but a number of the chemicals used to produce it hydrolyze (in the presence of water) to release something else you should have put in your table:
Hydrogen cyanide: Almonds or bitter almonds.
If you smell it, stop in the middle of that breath and get away. A full breath of it can be enough to kill you even if you start breathing clean air immediately (it works metabolically by affecting mitochondria so your cells stop breathing and don't start again).
Insidiously, quickly-fatal concentrations of HCN or other cyanides/producers can be masked by other chemical smells, for example burning acrylonitrile -- the "A" in the ABS plastic you're overheating when cutting (and as encountered in a recent accident where a broken axle set a tank-car on fire).
I have had experience with MEK, but more with Methylene Chloride which is used to solvent bond A.B.S. plastic. Here are some descriptions of various chemical odors from on-line references. The description for A.B.S. is mine:
Styrene: A Sweet, floral odor.
MEK: A mint-like odor.
Methylene Chloride: A sweet, pleasant chloroform odor.
Chloroform: A pungent smell similar to ether.
Ether: pungent, sweet, nauseating, or fruity.
A.B.S plastic: A sharp, acrid, burning plastic odor when cutting.
Acrylic: Only references are how to not encounter it.
Ammonia: Like you have been punched in the nose.
Xylene: A strong, sweetish odor.
Oh, yes, that was the stuff--take one of your mother's pins and keep it in the tube. Yes, I remember something about the dangers of sniffing the glue.
Johnny
Fruity smell? I had gone on to other things, such as trains and railroading by the time that came out. I had not thought of the good ol' airplane glue with its smell until this morning when I read the latest on this thread.
Murphy SidingFruity smell? That was the citrus scented glue they made to replace the good stuff.
Yeah, those stupid blue-labeled tubes. May as well be filled with water.
I use MEK and some Faller stuff with the needle applicator. I have this truck model, that at the rate I work on it, will be done (hopefully) by the time I retire.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Murphy Siding Who doesn't fondly remember the smell of airplane glue? Stick out tongue (Oops! Did I say that out loud? Whistling) We get the occasional styrene tank here. One came in with a leaking seal. It was reported, proper authorites responded, and the one environmental guy asks me what I smelled: "Styrene". "No, what did you smell? Was it a fruity smell?" "It was styrene." "But, what did it smell like..airplane glue?" "Styrene." They had to replace the seal.
Murphy Siding Who doesn't fondly remember the smell of airplane glue? Stick out tongue (Oops! Did I say that out loud? Whistling)
We get the occasional styrene tank here. One came in with a leaking seal. It was reported, proper authorites responded, and the one environmental guy asks me what I smelled:
"Styrene".
"No, what did you smell? Was it a fruity smell?"
"It was styrene."
"But, what did it smell like..airplane glue?"
"Styrene."
They had to replace the seal.
The most remarkable thing in the train was the boxcar that was a few years old and nearly graffiti free.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Murphy SidingWho doesn't fondly remember the smell of airplane glue? Stick out tongue (Oops! Did I say that out loud? Whistling)
zugmann schlimm Not smart to breathe the MEK vapors in enclosed areas with exposure to concentrations >200ppm. It has been linked to some neuropsychological damage (severe chronic headaches, memory loss, peripheral neuropathy). It's handy for putting together models. At least I think was putting together models.
schlimm Not smart to breathe the MEK vapors in enclosed areas with exposure to concentrations >200ppm. It has been linked to some neuropsychological damage (severe chronic headaches, memory loss, peripheral neuropathy).
It's handy for putting together models.
At least I think was putting together models.
However the worse one we know is Bopal, India -- MIC (?)
My evacuaion plan is simple --- drive through a deliberate frangible section of my fence in the rear so don't have to drive downhill towards the RR track.
schlimmNot smart to breathe the MEK vapors in enclosed areas with exposure to concentrations >200ppm. It has been linked to some neuropsychological damage (severe chronic headaches, memory loss, peripheral neuropathy).
RMEMethy Ethyl Ketone
Not smart to breathe the MEK vapors in enclosed areas with exposure to concentrations >200ppm. It has been linked to some neuropsychological damage (severe chronic headaches, memory loss, peripheral neuropathy).
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
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Convicted OneI'd find it interesting to know if there are specific chemical combinations fobidden to be near one another in the same consist? For instance something highly toxic (acetone cyanohydrin) next to something highly explosive (ethylene oxide), stuff like that.
http://s87.photobucket.com/user/edblysard/media/plaementchart001.jpg.html
Try these…
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Murphy SidingNot to worry. As I've been told, those cars only carry grain and pink rock.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I'd find it interesting to know if there are specific chemical combinations fobidden to be near one another in the same consist? For instance something highly toxic (acetone cyanohydrin) next to something highly explosive (ethylene oxide), stuff like that.
Mookie I am not unfamiliar with placards on tank cars (thanks Houston Ed) and since we watch them go by - at a safe distance, even with derailments (2 minor ones). But the posters have opened up a whole new subject to keep me awake at nite, listening to the trains not far away. Up to this point, I was worried more about our election, but this is making Halloween/the election look like a carnival.
I am not unfamiliar with placards on tank cars (thanks Houston Ed) and since we watch them go by - at a safe distance, even with derailments (2 minor ones). But the posters have opened up a whole new subject to keep me awake at nite, listening to the trains not far away. Up to this point, I was worried more about our election, but this is making Halloween/the election look like a carnival.
Dakguy201 Murphy Siding I rode with a coworker yesterday to go pick up a vehicle. He said he doesn't have any problem with the trains that run by a half mile from our office then through the middle of the city because he knows they only carry pink rock and grain. Who knew? I'm further south on that same line. Occasionally those trains also have tankers with HazMat code 1170. I doubt the tankers contain pink rocks, although I guess you could say that they have a grain derivative.
Murphy Siding I rode with a coworker yesterday to go pick up a vehicle. He said he doesn't have any problem with the trains that run by a half mile from our office then through the middle of the city because he knows they only carry pink rock and grain. Who knew?
I rode with a coworker yesterday to go pick up a vehicle. He said he doesn't have any problem with the trains that run by a half mile from our office then through the middle of the city because he knows they only carry pink rock and grain. Who knew?
tree68I read an account of a firefighter caught inside a BLEVE at a fixed site. He said it was pretty spectacular, and he survived with minor, if any, injuries. Being near the center, he was not hit with the shock wave that would have otherwise caused issues.
The principal issue with a BLEVE is less the mechanism of thermally-enhanced gas cloud expansion than the subsequent establishment of a large volume of critical mixture (which can then detonate similar to a fuel-air explosive device.). Fuels that are gases at ambient temperature but have relatively high carbon content are more troublesome than, say, CNG ... not to claim that CNG used as a vehicle fuel, or transported in railroad-car-size vessels, isn't a death trap just waiting for an excuse...
In my opinion, the worst hazards aren't the most immediately toxic or tissue-damaging -- they're the ones with no immediate symptoms but severe delayed consequences (phosgene is a very good example). Nitrogen mustard was 'king of the war gases' precisely because its victims didn't realize the extent of severe exposure until it had had a long time to occur; similar vesicants like methyl isocyanate (Bhopal)/isothiocyanate can have a like effect.
Are organophosphorus compounds seen carried in tankcar loads?
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