This from 1937 might be appropriate here??http://wondersofworldengineering.com/great-salt-lake.html Amazing rerouting!The old line over Promontory was something else! Was there in a snowstorm in April.Did they have to bring in water for locomotives on the old route?, as it is quite steep up to there and looked very arid.??Thank You.
Interesting update on the subject:
CURRENT MARINA NEWS
Marina News
Great Salt Lake State Marina
March 11, 2017
2017 - What Awaits Us?
What a winter! Snow, snow, snow! Today we are at 165% snowpack. That is an incredible recovery. Yet March looks drier and warmer than normal. That means a lot of spring runoff heading Great Salt Lake way. The lake has already risen nearly as much as it does for the whole season. And we will continue to rise. It is very likely we will have enough water this spring to get all the boats back in the water and keep them in all year. Let us hope we keep this wet cycle up for at least a few years.
DREDGING
DREDGING IS ON! Equipment has begun to arrive and dock fingers are being removed in the areas to be dredged. Dredging should begin late March and last about three or four months.
Railroad Causeway Breach
Union Pacific opened up the new breach on December 1st. There are two different groups that created models to estimate what this would mean to lake levels on the two halves. USGS estimated 1 to 1.5 foot loss to the south half with nearly a 3 foot rise in the north half in three to five weeks. Another group estimated a loss of only 1 to 1.2 feet over a three month period. But Mother Nature had other plans and delivered desperately needed moisture at the same time the south half was losing water to the north half. Instead of losing over a foot the south half only lost 0.2 feet before coming back up 0.2 feet by the end of January. And the two halves are in relative "equilibrium." The two halves never balance out. They always remain 1/2 of a foot difference in the winter to about 1 foot difference in the summer. We are about 1 foot difference as of March 11.
AnthonyV NDG Construction of Causeway, G S Lake. As Above.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp4qebb16cw And opening Gap, longer version, as Above Post.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFu1D6r1uEA Thank You. Great film - thanks for posting. At the end it was stated the project cost $50 million ($414 million in 2015 dollars according to inflationdata.com). I know nothing about what such a project should cost but it is surprisingly low to me, even for the late 1950s. I wonder what the payback period was.
NDG Construction of Causeway, G S Lake. As Above.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp4qebb16cw And opening Gap, longer version, as Above Post.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFu1D6r1uEA Thank You. Great film - thanks for posting.
As Above.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp4qebb16cw And opening Gap, longer version, as Above Post.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFu1D6r1uEA Thank You.
Great film - thanks for posting.
At the end it was stated the project cost $50 million ($414 million in 2015 dollars according to inflationdata.com). I know nothing about what such a project should cost but it is surprisingly low to me, even for the late 1950s.
I wonder what the payback period was.
Don't think I would have wanted to be the operator of either of the diggers on either side of the opening - moving water can move the ground you are sitting on before you can vacate the area.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
NDG Construction of Causeway, G S Lake.As Above.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp4qebb16cw And opening Gap, longer version, as Above Post.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFu1D6r1uEA Thank You.
Construction of Causeway, G S Lake.As Above.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp4qebb16cw And opening Gap, longer version, as Above Post.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFu1D6r1uEA Thank You.
Fascinating! If you go to the youtube URL cited above and page down, there's also another somewhat longer video of the breach.
UP has reported that the new control berm between the two halves of the lake was breached on December 1. Not much detail in the short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhRV8QBUUY0
Equalization between the levels of the lake arms should be complete sometime in January.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Thought I had posted this link before, but was mistaken. Quite an interesting article:
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4392697-155/union-pacific-agrees-to-delay-breach
A replacement structure for the older crushed culverts has been built, but opening the connection between the two halves of the lake has been deferred until higher water levels are available (hopefully in a few months).
NOTE to @CMStPnP, suggest fixing the title spelling.
Norm48327 cudjoebob to 'wanswheel'....fascinating, educational, and very interesting film! Thanks for posting! In context of the times, the St. Lawrence Seaway project was being built at the same time. Glad the eco nuts weren't around at that time. Neither project would have been built. Given the number of invasive species that have been brought into the Great Lakes since the seaway opened, and the damage they have caused, people are not sure that was a good idea.
cudjoebob to 'wanswheel'....fascinating, educational, and very interesting film! Thanks for posting! In context of the times, the St. Lawrence Seaway project was being built at the same time. Glad the eco nuts weren't around at that time. Neither project would have been built.
to 'wanswheel'....fascinating, educational, and very interesting film! Thanks for posting! In context of the times, the St. Lawrence Seaway project was being built at the same time. Glad the eco nuts weren't around at that time. Neither project would have been built.
Given the number of invasive species that have been brought into the Great Lakes since the seaway opened, and the damage they have caused, people are not sure that was a good idea.
That certainly, and also killed the Buffalo grain milling and storage industry and innumerable New York Central and other railroad carloadings to eastern ports.
Norm
wanswheelIslam section crew on Shriners' train to Ogden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAIIsSbmFp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAIIsSbmFp8
The segment crossing the Salt Lake trestle would indicate a speed of about 25 MPH - not 'line' speed but not that slow.
Islam section crew on Shriners' train to Ogden
I rode across this causeway two times, once with parents in 1959 on SP section of City of St. Louis, it was the wooden trestle at that time, because someone asked the conductor and he said yes. It had a different sound and seemed strange to look out coach windows and see water on both sides. The other time was 1965 and sounds like it would have been the rock fill by that time. I know it had a different sound, not hollow like the wooden one had been. Very interesting comments & articles.
Union Pacific: Volume 2 by Maury Klein has a much better detailed acount of the Salt Lake causeway and projects related to it than the book by Keenan.
mudchickenIt has never stopped sinking, inspite of the late 1980's reconstruction by SP and MKCo. (all they managed to do was get rid of the soldier piling and old boxcars)....Still blows out at the base of the fill and the crappy lake bottom soils can't hold bearing, so the slump and rotational fail at the base of the embankment fill continues, albeit slowly. What's old is new once more.
What's old is new once more.
"The Bear vs. the Lake - rising lake level and SP's Lucin Cutoff" by Steinheimer, Richard, from Trains, April 1987, pg. 24& etc.
( [Magazine Index 'keywords":] cutoff lake Lucin salt sp Utah )
- Paul North.
Modern concrete can be very strong - 4,000 to 5,000 psi is easy to achieve - and very dense/ impervious. "High-range water reducers" can be used to minimize the water needed in the mix but still leave it fluid enough to be workable. With the excess water gone, there are less voids left in the concrete when that water has evaporated, so it is more impermeable to salt water intrusion.
Rebar can be protected from salt corrosion and rusting-caused expansion (which cracks the concrete) by using the green-coated epoxy common in northern states.
The concrete piling can also be made thicker ==> more strength and more protection for the rebar.
The worst loading condition for the piles is when they're being driven. After that they might be supported and protected by the fill around them.
Keep in mind that a concrete column with a horizontal cross-section the size of letter-size paper - 8-1/2" x 11" = 93.5 sq. in. - can support a full-size railcar's worth of weight. Using concrete with allowable stress of 3,000 psi (moderate) x 93.5 sq. in. = 280,000 lbs., cf. 285K max. gross weight for most modern cars. A single 12" diam. piling would have to be only 2.5" thick to have that much area; even just a handful across the ballast section could support maybe 5 - 10 carloads.
Lots of concrete piling is used in saline / brackish shore areas, and holds up fairly well.
MidlandMike Paul, I also thought of concrete, but then I also thought of the steel reinforcing, and figured it would quickly corrode in the hypersaline environment. Can this be avoided, or would they just have to figure on planned replacement?
Paul, I also thought of concrete, but then I also thought of the steel reinforcing, and figured it would quickly corrode in the hypersaline environment. Can this be avoided, or would they just have to figure on planned replacement?
Living here in the north woods, I know what salt does to concrete - never mind the re-rod...
I suspect that about the only materials that would do well for such a structure are wood (which was used) and bulk fill (as is now in place.)
Unless someone can come up with some form of composite or plastic piling, what they've got is probably as good as it gets.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
https://archive.org/stream/ehharrimanbiogra01kennuoft#page/248/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/ehharrimanbiogra02kennuoft#page/400/mode/2up
M636C At the time, the WP was new, wasn't it? SP may have felt they had to do something dramatic to remain competitive. Everything I've read suggests that SP would try anything to delay or stop the WP getting access to San Francisco (or Oakland). And the old SP line dated to 1869, as everybody knew. M636C
At the time, the WP was new, wasn't it?
SP may have felt they had to do something dramatic to remain competitive. Everything I've read suggests that SP would try anything to delay or stop the WP getting access to San Francisco (or Oakland).
And the old SP line dated to 1869, as everybody knew. M636C
I really wish the quote feature wouldn't smash them down...
The Lucin Cutoff precedes the completion of the WP (1904 vs 1909) but I suspect that it was no doubt a factor in its construction. The old line survived until WWII.
JSP1: yes, the Bagely Train Wreck knocked passenger cars off the trestle into the lake, also in WWII. The accident killed 48.
These days, a trestle of concrete cylinder pilings or caissons would be a preferred material instead of timber or steel. They're common to support many rail lines over water or soft ground / wetlands approaches the stream/ river/ lake. The UP article linked by the OP above has photos with captions showing the bridge construction crews using pipe casings to pre-drill for either concrete or steel piles.
Here, they could be installed by driving or drilling/ boring in the existing fill (which would provide side support as well). The track would then be transferred to concrete slab decks between them with less disruption to rail traffic than any excavation. The support would have to come from the friction of the soil on the sides of the piles, not the end bearing on the bottom.
The trestle was more of a fire hazard than anything else. Decay was not much of an issue as the wood was pickled in the brine of the lake. For the same reason, corrosion would be a real problem with a steel trestle.
Was any sinkage noted with the original trestle? If not, or if negligible, maybe they should've replaced it with a more modern trestle and avoided the tremendous weight of the causeway fill.
dakotafred The Greenies would stop construction of the cutoff today. On balance, I wonder if S.P./U.P. wouldn't have been better off sticking with the original route, with refinements.
The Greenies would stop construction of the cutoff today. On balance, I wonder if S.P./U.P. wouldn't have been better off sticking with the original route, with refinements.
MK got the job for $49M - I don't think $49M today would get you a Enviornmental Impact Statement, let alone any construction.
Crossing the Great Salt Lake on Styrofoam..well that's how they build building/housing foundations these days. The environmental groups would go bananas.
Soundtracks of the fifties documentaries...yes, they were all the same. Remember those film clips throughout the school years! Yeesh.
Even today they got to put some kind of either a) jazz b) country c) video game crunch/crash guitar on everything..particularly obnoxious when added to film from the past. A lot of the train soundtrack is not real..added in later. Mute, mute, mute.
Some fills that are on weak soils have used Styrofoam blocks in the core to provide the needed volume or bulk without all the usual weight. The Salt Lake City light rail crossing over UP main line comes to mind - hey, that's only a few miles away !
Far enough down - where the fill is usually widest, too - the typical 'surcharge' pressure from the fill above ('dead load') and trains ('live load') is within the capabilities of the foam to withstand, particularly since it's confined on all sides. If memory serves, 20 PSI is a typical value, which is 2,880 lbs. per SF. That's close to 3,000 PSF, which is a pretty good bearing capacity for any soil (sometimes a presumptive or default value in lieu of better data or testing).
That would be able to support a column of typical fill dirt at 120 lbs. per cu. ft. (only - no train - and as a static load, i.e., not moving) 25' high above the foam. Or, add a moving train at 8,000 lbs. per ft. (E-80 loading) - at the bottom of the ballast under the tie (10 ft. across), the static load would already be down to about 800 PSF, dynamic maybe 1,200 PSF. So the Styrofoam could start at the lake bottom and come up to within a few feet of the bottom of the ballast, and still have plenty of excess capacity. But, since the Styrofoam is quite buoyant, the bigger problem would then be to keep the whole affair from floating away ! Some careful calculation and balancing of the weight vs. buoyancy could probably make it work.
Seems like a good idea for a master's or Ph.D. thesis, some small-scale 'beta' testing as an experiment and to prove the concept, and then maybe a start-up tech company . . .
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