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The Lucin Cufoff across the Great Salt Lake

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The Lucin Cufoff across the Great Salt Lake
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, August 7, 2016 10:11 PM
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Posted by erikem on Monday, August 8, 2016 12:58 AM

Interesting article, although I think the causeway was known to be sinking well before the UP took control of the SP.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 8, 2016 1:00 AM

That is a UP article - I wonder what the Eco-terrorists point of view is?

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Posted by NDG on Monday, August 8, 2016 1:52 AM

 

The 'First Spike'

In 1942, when Hyman-Micheals was removing the Promontory Line made redundant by the Lucin Cut Off, there was a photo taken @ the 1869 'Last Spike' location with two locomotives head-to-head in a reverse 'First Spike' location as steel was lifted.

This photo appeared in 'Trains' many years ago.

Is that photo available to view On Line?? Please

On a trip to California I visited that area and the Last Spike Location on a snowy day, and was very moved by the isolation and remoteness.

Thank You.

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Monday, August 8, 2016 6:13 AM

erikem

Interesting article, although I think the causeway was known to be sinking well before the UP took control of the SP.

I worked for the SP in the early 1980's and the issue then was that the lake level, after decades of slow decline, was rising due to increased rainfall. For a time they had a 12 hour curfew and were running 3-4 rock hauling work trains at a time the other 12 hours. They also planted many boxcars filled with rock more or less at water level at that time.

Separately, the causeway is the third SP main line in the area. The first was the original line of 1868 which was both crooked and had some grades to get over the ridges north of the lake. It was replaced by the trestle completed about 1906-1910. By the end of WW II it was too lightly built to support heavy trains at speed. The causeway was completed about 1950 and the side slopes of the fill were made relatively flat to spread the weight widely as the lake bed was known to be soft. 

The SP had no choice but to pour millions of dollars into the causeway since it was their only connection with the UP. That the UP, which has the former WP line around the south end of the lake, continues to maintain the causeway tells much about the value of a direct line as opposed to a circuitous one.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, August 8, 2016 8:11 AM

Yes, there was early runoff of the snow in the Wasatch Mountains one spring--to the point that it was possible to catch fish in State Street. The rise in the lake was so alarming that huge pumps were bought to move the water over a ridge west of the lake--and they have not been needed since that year. Now, the lake is so low that many boats had to be taken from a marina--there is not enough water to float them there.

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Posted by PJS1 on Monday, August 8, 2016 12:03 PM

Has there ever been a derailment on the cutoff severe enough to have some or all of the train go into the water?

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, August 8, 2016 3:27 PM

Going back to the spring with heavy early runoff of the snow, in the December before this, it snowed every day for three weeks--I built quite a wall beside my driveway, using an Armstrong snow thrower. 

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, August 8, 2016 6:04 PM

It has never stopped sinking, inspite of the late 1980's reconstruction by SP and MKCo. (all they managed to do was get rid of the soldier piling and old boxcars)....Still blows out at the base of the fill and the crappy lake bottom soils can't hold bearing, so the slump and rotational fail at the base of the embankment fill continues, albeit slowly.

What's old is new once more.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, August 8, 2016 6:11 PM

(DUPLICATE POST)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, August 8, 2016 6:47 PM

Not exactly germane, but it has been decided to build a new penitentiary between the airport and the lake (replacing the one south of Salt Lake City because the land there is wanted  for development). I wonder how far down piles will have to be driven to make sure that the walls do not sink to where they can be stepped over and how much farther they will have to be driven so nobody will have to climb stairs to get from the top floor to the ground level. There are other considerations that are causing head scratching.

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, August 8, 2016 8:35 PM

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:04 AM

I recall reading why the lake shows as two different colors - something to do with drainage, etc.

When I took a look at the causeway on Acme Mapper, I noted that near the west end it appears that SP ran into issues - it looks like the fill was started to go straight across the lake, but instead curved north a bit.  The original fill is still there and just "fades out..."

On further "investigation," it looks like the same thing happened on the east end as well...

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:04 AM

tree68

I recall reading why the lake shows as two different colors - something to do with drainage, etc.

When I took a look at the causeway on Acme Mapper, I noted that near the west end it appears that SP ran into issues - it looks like the fill was started to go straight across the lake, but instead curved north a bit.  The original fill is still there and just "fades out..."

On further "investigation," it looks like the same thing happened on the east end as well...

 

 

Aren't those just the approaches to the original trestle?

The replacement fill would have to be built while the trestle was still in use and would have to join the original alignment at each end.

M636C

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 10:40 AM

M636C
Aren't those just the approaches to the original trestle?

Could be.  I definitely am not a historian on that line...

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:14 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 3:29 PM

Fabulous film. What an undertaking. That Ed Reimers fellow sure narrated a lot of these documentaries. Thankfully I can tune out the annoying music, which they do even today in an even more annoying form. 

It would seem that the difficulties in the battle with the lake are ongoing. 

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 5:08 PM

Wanswheel,

Thank you for the film!

Mac McCulloch

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 5:39 PM

The background music fairly shouts 50's - without even looking at the film or narration.  Every 50's era documentary film all have the same sound and look.

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Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:51 PM

The Greenies would stop construction of the cutoff today. On balance, I wonder if S.P./U.P. wouldn't have been better off sticking with the original route, with refinements.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:17 PM

mudchicken
It has never stopped sinking, inspite of the late 1980's reconstruction by SP and MKCo. (all they managed to do was get rid of the soldier piling and old boxcars)....Still blows out at the base of the fill and the crappy lake bottom soils can't hold bearing, so the slump and rotational fail at the base of the embankment fill continues, albeit slowly.

What's old is new once more.

Too late or too hard to do this, but:

Some fills that are on weak soils have used Styrofoam blocks in the core to provide the needed volume or bulk without all the usual weight.  The Salt Lake City light rail crossing over UP main line comes to mind - hey, that's only a few miles away ! 

Far enough down - where the fill is usually widest, too - the typical 'surcharge' pressure from the fill above ('dead load') and trains ('live load') is within the capabilities of the foam to withstand, particularly since it's confined on all sides.  If memory serves, 20 PSI is a typical value, which is 2,880 lbs. per SF.  That's close to 3,000 PSF, which is a pretty good bearing capacity for any soil (sometimes a presumptive or default value in lieu of better data or testing). 

That would be able to support a column of typical fill dirt at 120 lbs. per cu. ft. (only - no train - and as a static load, i.e., not moving) 25' high above the foam.  Or, add a moving train at 8,000 lbs. per ft. (E-80 loading) - at the bottom of the ballast under the tie (10 ft. across), the static load would already be down to about 800 PSF, dynamic maybe 1,200 PSF.  So the Styrofoam could start at the lake bottom and come up to within a few feet of the bottom of the ballast, and still have plenty of excess capacity.  But, since the Styrofoam is quite buoyant, the bigger problem would then be to keep the whole affair from floating away !  Smile, Wink & Grin  Some careful calculation and balancing of the weight vs. buoyancy could probably make it work. 

Seems like a good idea for a master's or Ph.D. thesis, some small-scale 'beta' testing as an experiment and to prove the concept, and then maybe a start-up tech company . . . Mischief

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:58 PM

Crossing the Great Salt Lake on Styrofoam..well that's how they build building/housing foundations these days. The environmental groups would go bananas. 

Soundtracks of the fifties documentaries...yes, they were all the same. Remember those film clips throughout the school years! Yeesh. 

Even today they got to put some kind of either a) jazz b) country c) video game crunch/crash guitar on everything..particularly obnoxious when added to film from the past. A lot of the train soundtrack is not real..added in later. Mute, mute, mute. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:01 PM

MK got the job for $49M - I don't think $49M today would get you a Enviornmental Impact Statement, let alone any construction.

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:37 AM

dakotafred

The Greenies would stop construction of the cutoff today. On balance, I wonder if S.P./U.P. wouldn't have been better off sticking with the original route, with refinements.

 
At the time, the WP was new, wasn't it?
 
SP may have felt they had to do something dramatic to remain competitive. Everything I've read suggests that SP would try anything to delay or stop the WP getting access to San Francisco (or Oakland).
 
And the old SP line dated to 1869, as everybody knew.
 
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Posted by The Ferro Kid on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:02 PM

Was any sinkage noted with the original trestle?  If not, or if negligible, maybe they should've replaced it with a more modern trestle and avoided the tremendous weight of the causeway fill.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:55 PM

The trestle was more of a fire hazard than anything else.  Decay was not much of an issue as the wood was pickled in the brine of the lake.  For the same reason, corrosion would be a real problem with a steel trestle.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:35 PM

These days, a trestle of concrete cylinder pilings or caissons would be a preferred material instead of timber or steel.  They're common to support many rail lines over water or soft ground / wetlands approaches the stream/ river/ lake.  The UP article linked by the OP above has photos with captions showing the bridge construction crews using pipe casings to pre-drill for either concrete or steel piles.   

Here, they could be installed by driving or drilling/ boring in the existing fill (which would provide side support as well).  The track would then be transferred to concrete slab decks between them with less disruption to rail traffic than any excavation.  The support would have to come from the friction of the soil on the sides of the piles, not the end bearing on the bottom.    

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 9:19 PM

M636C

At the time, the WP was new, wasn't it?

SP may have felt they had to do something dramatic to remain competitive. Everything I've read suggests that SP would try anything to delay or stop the WP getting access to San Francisco (or Oakland).

And the old SP line dated to 1869, as everybody knew. M636C

I really wish the quote feature wouldn't smash them down...

The Lucin Cutoff precedes the completion of the WP (1904 vs 1909) but I suspect that it was no doubt a factor in its construction. The old line survived until WWII.

JSP1: yes, the Bagely Train Wreck knocked passenger cars off the trestle into the lake, also in WWII. The accident killed 48.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:24 PM

Paul, I also thought of concrete, but then I also thought of the steel reinforcing, and figured it would quickly corrode in the hypersaline environment.  Can this be avoided, or would they just have to figure on planned replacement?

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