Other than schnabel cars, cars with very heavy loads on a single car (e.g.: A large transformer in a depressed center or well car), cars marked DO NOT HUMP, and cars that have their load extend over the ends of the car, are there any other cars that that cannot be humped?
caldreamer Other than schnabel cars, cars with very heavy loads on a single car (e.g.: A large transformer in a depressed center or well car), cars marked DO NOT HUMP, and cars that have their load extend over the ends of the car, are there any other cars that that cannot be humped?
Not sure what the current 'rules' are for it; but it used to be a 'common' practice(?) among shipper's with cargos that could be damaged in 'humping' situations to mark cars with placcards on each end, and side that said " DO NOT HUMP". Some commodities that fit in that catagory were: Food stuffs (Fresh or canned), Palletized coils of steel, rolls of tinplate ( palletized and on their 'side' ) Glass Containers, or other 'fragile' , any loads that might be damaged in rough handling.
Also, some boxcars that might, or might not be, of the 'Damage Free' kind, ( generally internal locking bars, or 'door' systems) They could be used to ship product that was palletized, but could also be double stacked in the car.
I vaguely remember reading some time ago that auto carriers were not allowed to be humped. The autos were chocked but not otherwise restrained, and they could jump the chocks. With the unit trains today, I don't imagine this is likely to be an issue.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
How about hazmat cars loaded with things such as crude, ethanol, LPG, CNG,etc? One could get a bang out of humping them.
Norm
carknocker1 Intermodal cars and auto racks are the most common cars that can't be humped
Intermodal cars and auto racks are the most common cars that can't be humped
And in addition: BaltACD mentioned tank cars with liquids like grades of crude, compressed gases, and other volital liquids...
Watching passing trains around here, I can say I've not seen "Do Not Hump" warning placcards, eiher on single cars or on cars in unit [train] moves.
The indication seems to be that certain 'classes'[products/cars] may have specific rules for handling; that everyone who is responsible for their movement understands, and complies with(?)
My question is: Is there still a requirement for the "Do Not Hump" warning placcard to be affixed to those cars? Has that requirement for warning placcards, other than the diamond shaped HazMat warning [ They have specific points to be placed on the cars containing HazMat items been revoked?
I've never seen a auto rack car placcarded.
Thanks,
Scale test cars and geometry cars come to mind as well.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Before stretch wrapping and banding were as common as they are now boxcars loaded with bricks or ceramics were usually marked "Do Not Hump". Large steel sheets loaded on flats or gons are also often so marked.
UPRR11 I believe it's loaded autoracks that are prohibited from humping, but empties are fair game. I've certainly seen a few humped at UP's Enlgewood Yard in Houston (And I think I saw a video of some being humped at West Colton). As far as haz mat being humped, Englewood wouldn't need to have a hump if haz mat couldn't go over it. Englewood's primary purpose is to serve Houston's petrochemcial complex and they hump all sorts of goodies. Goodies that can make for a big boom if something goes wrong (And I believe SP had a run-in with a boom at Englewood in the 70's). Also, Strang Yard in La Porte, TX (along the Houston Ship Channel), one of UP's smallest hump yards, serves pretty much only haz mat and plastics. They shove some pretty hazardous stuff over that hump.
Only the worst of the worst can't be humped and those (the ones I've seen) are marked, "Do not hump." There are some classes of HM that can be humped, but not "kicked" or otherwise be cut off in motion. They also can have some special handling instructions, like only allowed over the hump in cuts of no more than two or not being allowed to roll free until preceding cars have cleared the hump lead, etc.
You need to see a HazMat instruction booklet, specifically the switching chart (not placement in train) for the full scoop.
Kicking cars in general is getting harder to do. Once a staple of flat switching, it's getting more and more restricted. They are doing it in the name of eliminating all risk. I swear that eventually we won't be able to move in the name of zero risk.
Jeff
jeffhergertKicking cars in general is getting harder to do. Once a staple of flat switching, it's getting more and more restricted. They are doing it in the name of eliminating all risk. I swear that eventually we won't be able to move in the name of zero risk. Jeff
My carrier just put out bulletins prohibiting cutting off cars in motion except at specificaly identified locations and then only for specific tracks. The original way they worded the bulletin prohibited humping cars at a hump yard, that did get changed in short order.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDMy carrier just put out bulletins prohibiting cutting off cars in motion except at specificaly identified locations and then only for specific tracks. The original way they worded the bulletin prohibited humping cars at a hump yard, that did get changed in short order.
And those guys in the suits get paid for thinking this up? Travesty I say, travesty.
BaltACDThe original way they worded the bulletin prohibited humping cars at a hump yard, that did get changed in short order.
Ah, yes. The law of unintended consequences....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I see here and on the blog section of this site all sorts of people kicking around ideas to increase the number of cars handled or ways to attract more customers. But with the way management acts, the rules written/modified, and the extreme cost cutting measures (single man crews, fewer locomotives, no OT), even if the business materialized - could the railroads handle it anymore?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Norm48327 How about hazmat cars loaded with things such as crude, ethanol, LPG, CNG,etc? One could get a bang out of humping them.
I recall sometime in the 60's or 70's on the Alton and Southern a tank car carrying a volitile gas was humped and "bashed" into the string of cars at the bottom going to fast, the result of faulty retarders. The gas was released, and found a spark soon enough. It destroyed about half of the hump yard
Of course, even if the car is marked "Do Not Hump", it is questionable how often the sign was and is obeyed by the hump crews.
I worked for 2 heavy hauling and rigging co's moving, loading and unloading heavy loads handled by railroads, a DO NOT HUMP sign doesn't mean jack to the railroads. We moved 1 transformer 4 times, it had an event recorder on it that registerd over 15,000 "hits". I don't know what constituted a "hit" but the power co. took delivery of it and put it in sevice and it immediately blew and split the case.
Eddystone I worked for 2 heavy hauling and rigging co's moving, loading and unloading heavy loads handled by railroads, a DO NOT HUMP sign doesn't mean jack to the railroads. We moved 1 transformer 4 times, it had an event recorder on it that registerd over 15,000 "hits". I don't know what constituted a "hit" but the power co. took delivery of it and put it in sevice and it immediately blew and split the case.
Don't know what a 'hit' is. Normal rules state that 4 MPH is the maximum safe coupling speed. Hump yards and their retarders are engineered to provide safe couplings for the cars that are humped. While in transit cars are subject to slack action in the trains they are in.
Cars carrying weapons such as rocket motors or missiles cannot be humped.
D. Carleton would know more, but I think unoccupied passenger cars being carried in freight trains are prohibited from being humped.
Historic equipment also often is.
NorthWestbut I think unoccupied passenger cars being carried in freight trains are prohibited from being humped.
Previous comments about kicking notwithstanding, I don't think passenger cars are to be kicked, either.
Federal law permits humping loaded hazmat cars (except RSSM). They have to be in cuts of two or less, and they leads have to be clear of car ahead and following cars can't be released until the hazmat cars are clear of the lead and must be in cust of two or less.
RSSM can't be kicked, can't be humped, can't be cut off in motion, must be coupled to at minimum speed, and can't be struck by a car rolling under its own momentum.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Sorry to plead ignorance, Dave, but I can't recall what the acronym RSSM stands for.
John
dehusman Federal law permits humping loaded hazmat cars (except RSSM). They have to be in cuts of two or less, and they leads have to be clear of car ahead and following cars can't be released until the hazmat cars are clear of the lead and must be in cust of two or less. RSSM can't be kicked, can't be humped, can't be cut off in motion, must be coupled to at minimum speed, and can't be struck by a car rolling under its own momentum.
TIH/PIH = toxic inhalation hazard/poison inhalation hazard.
RSSM = rail security sensitive material.
I have been avoiding this discussion, because I'm too long gone from the scene of the crimes.Jeff, the special instructions for Proviso used to be different because it wasn't an "automatic" hump like every other one on the railroad. I know that when I was up there, the instructions were adhered to religiously, but I suspect that the almighty car count persuaded some people to cut corners, and some officers to look the other way.We did have the advantage of being able to control the retarders to stop cars from rolling beyond them, so coupling a "buffer" car behind them could be done more efficiently.The "RSSM" classification must have come about after I retired. I'm sure that it covers some tank cars whose release of commodity would be a total disaster. I'm sure that chlorine and ethylene are among the RSSM goodies.I still get a chuckle when I think about the first time a Schnabel car showed up on the hump lead. It was empty, but it still required special handling, and nobody (else) seemed to know what to do, or why.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR I have been avoiding this discussion, because I'm too long gone from the scene of the crimes.Jeff, the special instructions for Proviso used to be different because it wasn't an "automatic" hump like every other one on the railroad. I know that when I was up there, the instructions were adhered to religiously, but I suspect that the almighty car count persuaded some people to cut corners, and some officers to look the other way.We did have the advantage of being able to control the retarders to stop cars from rolling beyond them, so coupling a "buffer" car behind them could be done more efficiently.The "RSSM" classification must have come about after I retired. I'm sure that it covers some tank cars whose release of commodity would be a total disaster. I'm sure that chlorine and ethylene are among the RSSM goodies.I still get a chuckle when I think about the first time a Schnabel car showed up on the hump lead. It was empty, but it still required special handling, and nobody (else) seemed to know what to do, or why.
Johnny
I worked for a local Power Company, if we had a transformer considered essential (a generator step up or very large grid unit), we would have a "rider" accomany the car....
In some cases, also done for over the highway moves as well
from the Far East of the Sunset Route
(In the shadow of the Huey P Long bridge)
Johnny, that's the truth--I dealt with it every day I worked up there. Eventually folks got used to dealing with me, knew the job would get done safely and properly, and everything was fine.
certain coal gondolas cant be humped
denveroutlaws06Certain coal gondolas can't be humped
Actually, that's not true. Those big red signs on the sides of the old steel coal gons say "Do Not Tamp". I don't think it's a question of structural integrity so much as the possibility of overloading the car if the load of scrap or whatever is compressed. There are plenty of other cars I'd have been more scared of not surviving a trip over the hump than those.
i wasnt refering to the steel hopper/gondolas some of the aluminum gondolas have do not hump on them
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2276746hem
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