Territory miss match

[vader225]

I live right nex to the CSX Trenton sub. between Cp. Nesh and Cp Berry. I listen to them almost 24/7 on my scanner. I here the enginerrs reporting a territory mismatch. and sometimes this throws the train in emergency. Can any one tell me what this is and explane what happens and causes this. Thank You Dennis Ewing

[BaltACD]

vader225

I live right nex to the CSX Trenton sub. between Cp. Nesh and Cp Berry. I listen to them almost 24/7 on my scanner. I here the enginerrs reporting a territory mismatch. and sometimes this throws the train in emergency. Can any one tell me what this is and explane what happens and causes this. Thank You Dennis Ewing

Many CSX engines are equipped for operating on the RF&P Sub which has Train Control and Cab Signals that were inherited from when the RF&P was a independent railroad.

I don't know the specifics of the control interactions between the locomotives and the territory they are oprating on, however, when a 'mismatch' message is displayed the locomotives computer screen in most all cases a full service application of the brakes takes place, crews then get permission to cut out the train control feature - which isn't needed except on the RF&P (and possibly some territory on the Albany Division).  Territory is sensed by 'electronic means'.

With PTC's reliance on GPS and mass use of wireless technology for myriad of other operational details - I fear similar stops will become all too frequent as the carriers move into the future.  If anyone uses a cell phone while moving across the country knows, not all areas have solid, reliable transmission and reception. 

[vader225]

Thanks so much for the come back Your answer is something I thought was happening. I now have a better understanding, and yes they do call th NI dispatcher for permission to proceed.   

                                             THANKS VADER225

[mvlandsw]

I've had that problem on CSX engines. I didn't have to call anyone or cut out the system. Just reset the cab signal system to match the non cab signal territory that I was on through the computer screen.

[BaltACD]

mvlandsw

I've had that problem on CSX engines. I didn't have to call anyone or cut out the system. Just reset the cab signal system to match the non cab signal territory that I was on through the computer screen.

Weren't operating under CSX rules were you?

[blue streak 1]

BALT:  There have been many posts in the past about the RF&P cab signals.  Please correct. but when CSX first took over the RF&P one of their locos had to lead all thru CSX trains from Richmond - Baltimore. Saw many pictures of RF&P leaders on their sub. This may have been same system as FEC ?

CSX converted the cab signal system to be compatible with the NEC and NS rules on former PRR cab signal lines.  Some former RF&P locos were changed as wellThat may be when CSX detours ove NS main lines in Pa that no NS leader is usually needed ?aa 

[vader225]

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO RESPONED TO MY QUESTION ABOUT TERRITORY MISS MATCH. THE REPLAIES WERE VERY HELPFUL. 

                                     THANK YOU VADER225

[xjqcf]

blue streak 1

BALT:  There have been many posts in the past about the RF&P cab signals.  Please correct. but when CSX first took over the RF&P one of their locos had to lead all thru CSX trains from Richmond - Baltimore. Saw many pictures of RF&P leaders on their sub. This may have been same system as FEC ?

CSX converted the cab signal system to be compatible with the NEC and NS rules on former PRR cab signal lines.  Some former RF&P locos were changed as wellThat may be when CSX detours ove NS main lines in Pa that no NS leader is usually needed ?aa 

 

 

I think the basic difference between RF&P and PRR systems was RF&P used 60 Hz vs. 100 Hz on Pennsy. Not sure if the code rates were different too.

[rfpjohn]

Yes, RF&P was 60Hz and so incompatable with former Conrail equipment. It was changed to 100Hz after the acquisistion of former Conrail lines, along with their much larger cab signal equipped locomotive roster. Prior to this, an RF&P unti had to lead, or one of the three CSX GP40s which had ATC equipment stripped from RF&P SW1200s 81-83. Later, additional CSX GP40s and 10 B36-7s were equipped with RF&P ATC equipment, as the RF&P fleet was far to small to cover traffic needs, along with the lack of dynamic brakes, which was horrifying to the B&O boys!

Currently, there are three settings: RF&P, which has penalty capability for overspeed at 60.4 (usually) on a clear, 45 on approach-limited/approach-medium and 25 on approach or restricting. NEC setting for operating on the northeast corridor with 50, 30 and 20mph overspeed settings and CS Only for former Conrail freight lines. This is also the setting for non-equipped territory, where the cab signal remains red. There is no penalty overspeed feature in this setting. The territory selection must match the GPS location of the engine and sometimes the NEC territory bleeds over or Septa northeast of Philly. It will drop into "Default" setting, which will only allow 20mph running if yellow or red are displaed in the cab. If "Territory mismatch" gets you, and you are stopped by a penalty application, you just reset to the proper territory setting and continue on.