Railways of Tomorrow

[daveklepper]

[quote user="Firelock76"]

Wasn't the theme song to the 1939 World's Fair "Hi-Ho, Come to the Fair?"

Which to my knowledge actually predates the '39-'40 World's Fair.  Maybe DaveKlepper needs to sound off on this, he was there!

I've heard "Come to the Fair," I think it's actually quite charming.  It' s a hell of a lot better than "It's A Small World After All" which I only mentioned because someone else did first!  

"Small World" makes my skin crawl, it makes Lady Firestorm homicidal!

 [/quote ABOVE]

 

I don't remember the theme song.  I would probably recognize it if I heard both the music and the words.  Of course, the St.  Louis turn-of-the -Century theme song, Take me out to the Fair, remains with me.

 

But in those days railroads still were upbeat, and Hungerford had them put on a terrific show, Railroads on Parade, which I think a attended four times during counting both seasons.  I certainly still remember the    PRR S-1 with its drive wheels in motion, the Loewey K4 qne the Dryfuss J3 as show curtains, the cut-away lightwieght Pullman sleeper, the John Bull (or replica), a really great show.  The EMD E-6 with glass siding so one could see the two prime-movers. The British Flying Scotsman, the Trilong and Perisphere, the GM World of Tomorrow (but mostly highway based).  A new PRR long distance reclining seat coach coupled to a fairly new New Haven "Amiercan Flyer" that did not have reclining seats,  but both examples of then modern passenger equipment.   And coming home once I did get my first MP-54 front platform ride, at age 7-1/2!   "Ten Miles, Ten Cents, Ten Minutes" was the LIRR slogan (but actually it was most often 12 minuts.)

[tree68]

Deggesty

Housewives, with freshly hung out laundry, paid attention to such things as coal smoke.

Hence "the wrong side of the tracks..."

[wanswheel]

Paul_D_North_Jr

wanswheel

It seems there were two of them.

Maybe the same one - just changed the number board to match that year of the Fair ? That's what the caption on this photo you found says

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3119018

Paul, thanks for ensuring my attempt at humor would fail to misinform.  

[Deggesty]

Housewives, with freshly hung out laundry, paid attention to such things as coal smoke.

[Firelock76]

That's interesting, and I do appreciate the copier toner example.  Most people don't realize just how fine the stuff is, finer than baby powder.  Which is why it makes such a mess if people are careless with it and spill it.

Any idea what the exhaust emissions were like on a powdered coal engine, and would it pass muster with the EPA nowadays?  Or maybe there's no data at all about the same?  Back then no-one paid attention to those things.

[Overmod]

54light15

I did not know that Elwood Engel designed the Chrysler turbine car. To me his finest achievement was the suicide-door Lincoln Continental.

The '61 is the right year for the Continental.  They got the nose wrong after that; it looks too much like a Mercury.  (Note how very similar the '61 Continental and T-Birds are -- and yes, those back doors are useful!)

But for sheer rocket fun, you can't top the lines of the Bird, especially with the top down and disappeared...

 

 

"coal burning Eldorado?" Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Turbine.  Don't forget the turbine part.

 

 

The "coal" that was used was actually solvent-refined and had approximately the fineness -- Firelock will appreciate this -- of copier toner.  Loudest sound in the car was not the clock but the little vibrating shaker that kept the fuel in that tank fluidized enough to feed right.

 

What this car really needed was more gears and a bottoming cycle.  I thought then, and still do, that the idea was a good one -- but that most 'Cadillac drivers' would never have the combination of traits to make this particular thing 'do'.

 

 

[Firelock76]

A coal-burning Eldorado?  Did it have a whistle?

[54light15]

I did not know that Elwood Engel designed the Chrysler turbine car. To me his finest achievment was the suicide-door Lincoln Continental. I have a mint 62 in my garage so I may be a bit biased. I used to see a turbine car occasionally where I grew up on Long Island. Remember the Adam West Batmobile? The sound it made was of the turbine car. the narrator of the video is wrong about the survival rate, all but a handful were destroyed so to not pay import taxes on them as the bodies were assembled in Italy, by Ghia, I think. There is one in the Chrysler museum in Auburn Hills, Michigan in perfect working order and Jay Leno has one in his collection. There may be others.

"coal burning Eldorado?" Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

[Overmod]

54light15

One thing I sure remember was finding new in the box laying in the middle of the sidewalk, a pre-built 1/24th scale model of the Chrysler turbine car.

Actually 1:25 scale.

There were a couple of the demonstrators at the Fair ... and you could get rides in them ... but I didn't see them.  Which was a shame, as not only was this one of Elwood Engel's very finest achievements, it was also the subject of one of the best model kits ever made (Jo-Han, with the special Frame-Pak, molded in Turbine Bronze!)  (I went through several of these restyling the front end to look more like my father's '62 T-bird, as those big owl-eye 'turbine' lights were alarming at the front, and the T-bird had better turbine exhausts at the back

It does have to be said, a bit grudgingly, that the coal-burning Eldorado was a cooler use of technology if you have to have a turbine.

 

 

[54light15]

I brought home from the 64-65 fair a bunch of paper brochures and what not that I kept for over 40 years until I sold it all on Ebay. Wasn't doing me any good and I think I got $40.00 for it all. Just paper stuff but I imagine anything like a miniature Unisphere would be worth more.

[Firelock76]

54light, that's what firecrackers are made for, spectaular disposal of car models or tank models that don't turn out right.

But don't feel bad.  Remember my mentioning my mother and the 1939 World's Fair?  She told me "I brought home so much crap from that Fair!  I wish I held onto it all, it'd be worth a lot of money now!"

The hell of it is, she's right!

[54light15]

My parents were in a square dance club and put on shows at the federal pavilion at the 64-65 worlds fair. Every single time, when we left the fair to drive home, my old man got lost. Once he drove over a highway median and tore the muffler off the car! He'd curse a blue streak each and every time we drove home. I do recall most of the main exhibits of GM, Ford, Chyrsler, GE and Bell telephone and the monorail that only covered one area of the fair but I sure don't recall a Marklin trains layout.

In Robert Caro's book about Robert Moses, "The Power Broker," the fair was the beginning of the end for RM. Worlds fairs are only supposed to be for one year, but it lost so much money in 64, they ran it for another year to try to make the money back which it sure didn't.

One thing I sure remember was finding new in the box laying in the middle of the sidewalk, a pre-built 1/24th scale model of the Chrysler turbine car. If not for firecrackers, I'd still have it today.

[Firelock76]

Thanks for the information Erikem, I always wondered what happened to the "Carousel of Progress."  I'm glad it was saved, it was too good to go out with the garbage.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

wanswheel

Or maybe not. It seems there were two of them.

Thanks for finding those photos. 

Maybe the same one - just changed the number board to match that year of the Fair ? That's what the caption on this photo you found says, as well as some other interesting details (only dynamic-brake GP35 on the New York Central):

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3119018

The Fair was 1964 & 1965 (don't know about through the winter). With all the effort it took to make the loco up that way with the glass side, etc. and to get it in there, I don't think it would have been worthwhile to remove and reconfigure it, then do it all over again a few months later.

- Paul North.   

[zugmann]

wanswheel

With these new economic policies, trillions of dollars will start flowing into our country. This new wealth will improve the quality of life for all Americans. We will build the roads, highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, and the railways of tomorrow. This, in turn, will create millions of more jobs.

 

And I have a bridge to sell you.  Do people actually buy this (crap)?

[wanswheel]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Maybe wanswheel / Mike can find more about it ?

Or maybe not. It seems there were two of them.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3119018

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4464275

[erikem]

Firelock76

The things I remember best from the '64 Fair are the GE Pavilion, THAT one had a good song, "Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow", I still remember the words, the Ford Pavilion where they introduced the Mustang, and you got to ride though the pavilion in one, (I let my brother take the driver's seat, I'm not a car guy) The Vatican Pavilion where we saw Michaelangelo's Pieta, hey we were good Catholics, couldn't pass THAT one up!

The GE pavillion was moved to Anaheim and became the GE Carousel of Progress at Disneyland - visited that one many times between 1968 and 1972. The sets and characters were moved to Disney World and I gor reacquainted with the show a few months ago when spending a week at Disney World. There were a couple of changes in the display - missed the "one boy power" vacuum cleaner from the Disneyland version and have a vague recollection of street car sounds in the 1920's display at Disneyland.

The wife of the couple that were hosting us at WDW worked at the Vatican Paviliion and she got really tired of hearing "It's a small world after all".

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Overmod

I went to the '64 World's Fair, probably at just the right age, and had one of the best times I can remember. . . .  You'd think I would remember the E units ... but I don't, probably didn't remember to look for them. 

. . . I guess I got too old, too fast, or perhaps the world changed too much in the following few years, but I never again saw a Worlds' Fair to touch that one in '64.

"+1" - 3 times, I think.  Loved the trip up the NJ Turnpike from the front seat of a chartered bus.  Wish I had a time machine - this is as close as I'll get, I'm afraid:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_New_York_World%27s_Fair

E units ??? There was a GP35 - #1964, it seems - with a glass side ! Or at least opened up in the hood area, and a glass side to the cab (didn't see it until my 3rd trip, I think):

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GP-35_Diesel_1964_Worlds_Fair.jpg 

http://www.worldsfaircommunity.org/topic/14367-gm-locomotive/ 

http://www.billcotter.com/misc/nywf64/gm-locomotive-65.jpg 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/locomotive/images/b/bd/GP35_Demo.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130809085152 

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/File:GP35_Demo.jpg 

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/File:GP35_Demonstrator.jpg

Maybe wanswheel / Mike can find more about it ?

- Paul North.

[Firelock76]

Overmod

Oh, and I almost forgot:

I enjoyed the hell out of that exhibit where we floated past dolls dressed in all the costumes of the world.  I especially enjoyed the catchy little song all the dolls were singing in their different voices ... it probably might have started to be cloying if there weren't all those different voices, and the message weren't so relevant...

Outside of that context, or if you were to, say, try to make that exhibit a Disney ride that generations and generations of kids would start singing the catchy song from -- anyone out there remember the Wee Sing videos, especially 'Sillyville'? -- there might have been a bad end to that business...

 

You...can't...be...serious...

[wanswheel]

“Workers build up the sides of the crate that contains Michelangelo’s Pieta’ on its transatlantic voyage to the New York World’s Fair on April 2, 1964. The statue stands on cotton padding between its base and the bottom of the crate, on a sandwich of two four-inch planks with a rubber layer in between. As the sides of the crate are erected, it will be packed full of millions of tiny plastic beads. Then it will be put into a steel container with a fireproof asbestos layer between the two boxes. A special truck will haul the crated statue to Naples on April 4, to be loaded aboard the liner Cristoforo Colombo, for its trip to the Vatican pavilion of the New York’s World’s Fair.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ojYElSlj0&t=15m6s

Excerpt from NY Times, April 14, 1964

Michelangelo's masterwork in marble, the “Pietà,” arrived in New York yesterday, the first time it has left the Vatican since the sculptor smuggled it into St. Peter's in a horse­drawn cart 465 years ago.

The sculptor's poignant de­piction of the frail body of Jesus in death, cradled in the arms of His mother, will be put on display in the Vatican Páv­ilion at the World's Fair.

Fearful that the slightest jar might split the aged marble of the massive work, shippers had packed the Pietà in a water­tight case inside of a case in­side of another case.

Even if the Italian Line's Cristoforo Colombo—the ship that carried the masterpiece from Italy—had sunk, the con­tainer would have floated. The top of the container was paint­ed a bright orange, so it could be spotted easily. 

And even if the container, through some mischance, had sunk 10 feet below the surface, electronic equipment within the case would have radioed the Pietà's position.

[Overmod]

Oh, and I almost forgot:

I enjoyed the hell out of that exhibit where we floated past dolls dressed in all the costumes of the world.  I especially enjoyed the catchy little song all the dolls were singing in their different voices ... it probably might have started to be cloying if there weren't all those different voices, and the message weren't so relevant...

Outside of that context, or if you were to, say, try to make that exhibit a Disney ride that generations and generations of kids would start singing the catchy song from -- anyone out there remember the Wee Sing videos, especially 'Sillyville'? -- there might have been a bad end to that business...

[Firelock76]

Overmod, we just may have been within hailing distance of each other!

The things I remember best from the '64 Fair are the GE Pavilion, THAT one had a good song, "Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow", I still remember the words, the Ford Pavilion where they introduced the Mustang, and you got to ride though the pavilion in one, (I let my brother take the driver's seat, I'm not a car guy) The Vatican Pavilion where we saw Michaelangelo's Pieta, hey we were good Catholics, couldn't pass THAT one up!

And there was the "Hall of Presidents," I THINK that was in the Illinois Pavilion but I could be wrong on that.  This was the debut of the attraction that's now at the Disney theme parks.  I'll never forget the words the "Audio-Anamatronic" Lincoln said...

"As a nation of free men, we will live forever, or die by suicide!"

The rest of the Fair's kind of a blur, it was a bit overwheming.

We did get close to the Unisphere.  I thought it was supposed to be a representation of what the world would look like after nuclear war, so we'd better not have one!

[Firelock76]

Wow, Ethel Merman when she could still sing! 

This one's not as good as the Horace Height one I mentioned, but it still beats "Small World." 

[wanswheel]

Overmod

theme song to the World of Tomorrow.  "Dawn of a New Day".  Especially awful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcfgvzwaDHc&t=7m8s

[Overmod]

Firelock76

Did you go to the 1964-1965 New York World's Fair? We did, and on the way home Mom (a New York City girl) said, "Well, it was all right, but the one in 1939 was a LOT better!"

I went to the '64 World's Fair, probably at just the right age, and had one of the best times I can remember.  The only bad thing was that I was just in the throes of requiring permanent glasses, didn't remember to take them ... and so my memory of the high point, the enormous Marklin railroad layout, is of a blurred mountain with only a few little trains visible in the foreground.  Remember waiting with some excitement for the Hawaii Pavilion restaurant volcanoes to erupt.  That was the first place I saw 'diffraction grating' jewels; that was really high technology you could hold in your hand.  My father got my mom on the flume ride; I forget what story he told, but she wouldn't talk to him much for a while afterward.  You'd think I would remember the E units ... but I don't, probably didn't remember to look for them.  I waited with great excitement for the return next summer ... but we never went, and to this day I still watch clips of the goings-on with nostalgia.

(One of my favorite things, from the first time I saw it in my grandparents' house, was the little 'souvenir' Trylon and Perisphere thermometer they brought back.  That, and my little 'I have seen the future' button (that I wear when giving presentations sometimes) are still prized possessions all these many years later.)

Never went back to see the burnt porkchop unisphere or the surviving buildings, although it was fun to see them from the road to Kennedy Airport.  I remember how amazing all those buildings were 'in the day' and couldn't believe all that bustle and all those crowds could just disappear so completely when they had such a cheerful and positive message for us all.

I guess I got too old, too fast, or perhaps the world changed too much in the following few years, but I never again saw a Worlds' Fair to touch that one in '64.

[BaltACD]

Firelock76

Right, I did a bit of further research and sure, "Dawn of a New Day" isn't the best of Gershwin's efforts, however the Horace Height (on You Tube) arrangement isn't too bad, it has kind of a neat 30's "Big Band" vibe to it if you appreciate that kind of music.

OK, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, or Tommy Dorsey it ain't, but I've heard worse.

Did you go to the 1964-1965 New York World's Fair?  We did, and on the way home Mom (a New York City girl) said, "Well, it was all right, but the one in 1939 was a LOT better!"

Thanks a lot Mom!  Ruined it for me!

Typical mom, typical old phart!  Things were ALWAYS better 'in my day' than they are now.

[BaltACD]

Euclid

wanswheel

With these new economic policies, trillions of dollars will start flowing into our country. This new wealth will improve the quality of life for all Americans. We will build the roads, highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, and the railways of tomorrow. This, in turn, will create millions of more jobs.

I just hope the trillions of dollars flow in before we build the roads, highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, and the railways of tommorw.

 

There are many that believe that the way to cause trillions of dollars to flow in is to borrow and spend on those infracstructure items.

...and thus we have the perpetual conundrum of economic activity.

Raw materials rarely, if ever, exist where products are manufactured and the manufactured products are rarely, if ever, fully consumed where they are manufactured.

To develop a economic stream you need facilities to transport the raw materials to the manufacturer and facilities to move and distribute the manufacturered products to the ultimate consumer.  All of these operations require transportation - if it isn't built it won't happen.

[Firelock76]

Right, I did a bit of further research and sure, "Dawn of a New Day" isn't the best of Gershwin's efforts, however the Horace Height (on You Tube) arrangement isn't too bad, it has kind of a neat 30's "Big Band" vibe to it if you appreciate that kind of music.

OK, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, or Tommy Dorsey it ain't, but I've heard worse.

Did you go to the 1964-1965 New York World's Fair?  We did, and on the way home Mom (a New York City girl) said, "Well, it was all right, but the one in 1939 was a LOT better!"

Thanks a lot Mom!  Ruined it for me!

[CMStPnP]

Euclid

There are many that believe that the way to cause trillions of dollars to flow in is to borrow and spend on those infracstructure items.   

Conventional wisdom but Indiana has already proven it can be done without spending a lot of State or Federal money.     How?   By selling rights to the private sector to use private sector money and project management over time.    The State uses it's credit to issue bonds BUT the interest and payback of those bonds is done by the private contractor via tolls collected (also could be done via real estate value capture......but this latter idea has not been tried yet and is controversial).  

Euclid

I just hope the trillions of dollars flow in before we build the roads, highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, and the railways of tommorw.

My view on this is we need to prioritize projects on return back to the country in GDP growth, cost avoidance, etc.     For example, agree with others on the controversial position that rail is not always the immediate best selection for improvement in transportation between two cities.      Mass Transit and Rail do improve what Economists refer to as Economic velocity which they attribute to GDP growth.     The bottom line is, and using hypotheticals here these are not actual stats........ do we want to build a $100-120 Billion HSR system in California if the payback on that money takes 50 years to accompish via GDP growth.     Could we obtain a faster return with that money by improving water use and retention, building reservoirs for prolonged droughts?.       

We do have a limited pool of money to spend and we can't make everyone happy as there isn't enough money.    So I think our priorities should be on projects that advance us the most on GDP and tax collection growth.

How do we best build and advance the Economy with the money we have?    Thats an approach we have not used in the past and we have wasted Trillions probably by throwing money at everything.

[Overmod]

Firelock76

Wasn't the theme song to the 1939 World's Fair "Hi-Ho, Come to the Fair?"

I meant the theme song to the World of Tomorrow.  "Dawn of a New Day".  Especially awful if you know who wrote the words and the music.