Got another for my forum friends: On our local BNSF line this evening, I saw a standard coal train except for a couple of things. First, it had two engines on both engines. (not unusual. I have seen sets on both ends before.) Second, (and this is the unusual part) one engine each of the sets was a engine lettered for Kansas City Southern (KCS). It was too dark to see the numbers on the units, however.
Two thoughts I had: Run-through agreement with the KCS. Short on motive power and leasing units.
Any clarification on why those units were there would be welcomed.
Foreign power goes thru here all the time. Mostly NS and CSX. Did see one UP.
I have been told they are "you owe me time or I owe you time". And....KCS runs a grain train through here pretty regularly. Entire train is KCS and a good looking train.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
You've covered two options, and Ms Mook brings up a third.
Run through power may be used if it's easier to do so than to change power out (for any number of reasons). Running a Diesel is pretty much the same no matter whose you're in, so it's not a steep learning curve.
Railroads do lease power, both from leasing companies, and from other railroads which may be experiencing a surplus of motive power. Or they may just borrow power (see the next paragraph).
And run-through power can also cause one railroad to owe another "horsepower hours." The railroads have entire offices dedicated to tracking that, and I'm sure there's a fairly complicated formula for doing so.
I'm betting that if the hours owed between any two railroads reaches zero, it's a fleeting event.
And I'm sure I've missed something...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 You've covered two options, and Ms Mook brings up a third. Run through power may be used if it's easier to do so than to change power out (for any number of reasons). Running a Diesel is pretty much the same no matter whose you're in, so it's not a steep learning curve. Railroads do lease power, both from leasing companies, and from other railroads which may be experiencing a surplus of motive power. Or they may just borrow power (see the next paragraph). And run-through power can also cause one railroad to owe another "horsepower hours." The railroads have entire offices dedicated to tracking that, and I'm sure there's a fairly complicated formula for doing so. I'm betting that if the hours owed between any two railroads reaches zero, it's a fleeting event. And I'm sure I've missed something...
Lots of UP power comes thru here on CSX, occasionally I see BNSF locomotives, and two times saw a KCS locomotive. Would love to know the story behind my most unusual sighting - a CSX loco towing an NS unit.
How does it work with Amtrak when they use a freight carrier's power? Last week I saw a 7 hour late #8 Empire Builder blasting through Nordeast Minneapolis with BNSF power on the point. Only one Amtrak unit trailing, so they either hit something or the P42 croaked and was not able to be towed dead.
When would the clock start? From the time the BNSF unit was dispatched to meet the stranded EB or from the time it coupled up to it?
Also, who would drive the thing? An Amtrak or BNSF engineer?
Last week I saw a UP stack train on the UP near Sierra Blanca, TX. The lead locomotive was an UP unit, follow by a Norfolk and Southern unit and a CSX unit.
When run through power or leased power runs on a foreign road; that is say, off of its owner's road, does the lead locomotive need to be from the road that the units are running on?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
JPS1 Last week I saw a UP stack train on the UP near Sierra Blanca, TX. The lead locomotive was an UP unit, follow by a Norfolk and Southern unit and a CSX unit. When run through power or leased power runs on a foreign road; that is say, off of its owner's road, does the lead locomotive need to be from the road that the units are running on?
It depends on the needs of the road they're running on. UP uses cab signals on some routes and one of their locomotives is usually in the lead. Elsewhere, it doesn't make much difference which one leads.
Norm
Norm48327t depends on the needs of the road they're running on. UP uses cab signals on some routes and one of their locomotives is usually in the lead. Elsewhere, it doesn't make much difference which one leads.
Mookie, I may go you four better--one time when I was traveling to the east, I saw five CSX engines running light as the train went west.
Johnny
Johnny: I bet they were "exercising" them....
Walking Chessie the cat - oh wait, that was a couple mergers ago . . . .
Paul_D_North_Jr Walking Chessie the cat - oh wait, that was a couple mergers ago . . . .
There is still a bridge in Grand Rapids, MI with Chessie on it.
Would post this in the Chatterbox, but everyone knows no one reads the CB.
So in keeping with the theme, we saw NS as a lead engine with the 2nd motor BNSF. Then the two DPU's were both NS. Train was headed to Atlanta (loaded coal)
Another loaded coal going east with UP first and BNSF 2nd. We don't see that much UP on any of the trains, except the local.
Norm48327 Paul_D_North_Jr Walking Chessie the cat - oh wait, that was a couple mergers ago . . . . There is still a bridge in Grand Rapids, MI with Chessie on it.
There's still a bridge near Stockton, GA (between Valdosta and Homerville) with ACL on it.
Mookie . . . So in keeping with the theme, we saw NS as a lead engine with the 2nd motor BNSF. Then the two DPU's were both NS. Train was headed to Atlanta (loaded coal) . . .
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr Mookie I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ? - Paul North.
Mookie
I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ?
Can't speak to NS directly, CSX's last several orders of new locomotives have been equipped for DPU. Selectively CSX has been training crews on specific territories on the use of DPU. CSX has had to install a number of 'radio repeaters' to permit the use of DPU's as they require reliable communications between the control unit and the distributed units and many of the territories where DPU is intended to be used do not have the proper 'line of sight' to create reliable end to end radio communications. I suspect NS may be undertaking the same process.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And! Once again I learned something!
I do know that every time we see a coal train thru here it has a DPU or 2. Beyond that...
Thank you, gentlemen!
NS DPUs - Seems like there are a few, based on some limited research this morning:
At least all 20 of the "Heritage" units - both EMD SD70ACe and GE ES44AC, per:
http://www.nsdash9.com/heritage.html
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/8000.html
Also the other SD70ACe's, ES40DC's, and some C40-9W's:
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1000.html
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/7500.html
Some (18 ?) of the D9-44CW's: http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/8889.html
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2952015
Some other instances:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/02/02-ns-long-train
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,3609492
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2367665
As of a few years and upgrades ago, DP units no longer have to be "family." Foreign line engines can now be recognized by the home railroad's engines for DP purposes.
Today, I had a couple of really foreign engines, two Ferromex engines. Consecutively numbered to boot and they weren't new ones being delivered. They came up north on an empty grain train. I only got to run them around the wye to get the UP engine on the front of the consist for cab signal/ATC purposes. (Then I find the UP engine once started has a fountain of water leaking from the radiator site glass and the bottom inlet valve is broken. The diesel house was able to fix it so the leak was stopped.) Most things were marked in both English and Spanish. A few only in English, a few only in Spanish. Luckily those in Spanish only were on switches that are standard to all models no matter the owner. There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off.
Jeff
Jeff - we used to see Ferromex every so often - & always on a grain train.
But it has been awhile and either they are running at really odd times, or just not coming thru here any more.
But another question: We keep seeing a container train - mostly JB Hunt, but with some other names sprinkled in - also UPS. Is this the "infamous" JB Hunt train that people talk about or is that a train that is only Hunt?
jeffhergertThere was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
Can't be any worse than the pict-o-gram knobs and buttons on the newest Aces and Gevos. Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights.
And while figuring that out, the engine starts screaming at you because you dare had the reverser thrown without throttling up after 0.000000003 seconds! An eternity by biblical proportions!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Try getting on Susquehanna 142 - Chinese...
jeffhergert As of a few years and upgrades ago, DP units no longer have to be "family." Foreign line engines can now be recognized by the home railroad's engines for DP purposes. Today, I had a couple of really foreign engines, two Ferromex engines. Consecutively numbered to boot and they weren't new ones being delivered. They came up north on an empty grain train. I only got to run them around the wye to get the UP engine on the front of the consist for cab signal/ATC purposes. (Then I find the UP engine once started has a fountain of water leaking from the radiator site glass and the bottom inlet valve is broken. The diesel house was able to fix it so the leak was stopped.) Most things were marked in both English and Spanish. A few only in English, a few only in Spanish. Luckily those in Spanish only were on switches that are standard to all models no matter the owner. There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
Here in Soth Central Ks. we will see occasionally, Canadian Pacific units on some BNSF trains. Those generally run at least, second out, on head ends.
My question is: knowing the legislated need for the Canadians to "have to" use both French and English on their freight cars, does that practice also find itslf used on the Cab Controls of their locomotives?
I have not seen any Canadian National locomotives out here, as yet. Union Pacific power is usually running after the BNSF head end power. There is a 'wind turbine blade' train that seems to cycle through this area that operates with all UPR Power, most of the times I've seen it. The NS Road Railer Trains that operated through here always seemed to have NS power, before they were discontiued between Alliance Tx and KC.
Sam: CP & CN both have been thru here. CN - I have 40 numbers and CP about 1/2 of that. So they are at least in the area.
samfp1943 My question is: knowing the legislated need for the Canadians to "have to" use both French and English on their freight cars, does that practice also find itslf used on the Cab Controls of their locomotives?
It was certainly true of the safety control systems in the F40s -- I was looking at a picture of the Faiveley bearing-overheat panel and it's fully bilingual. With, I thought, a reasonable attempt to put 'French first' as indicated by Bill 101.
I'd expect non-pictogram controls to be bilingually labeled.
Not quite germane, but: when my wife and I were traveling across Canada on VIA, we noticed that in Quebec, the announcements were first in French and then in English; in the other provinces, they were first in English and then in French.
zugmann jeffhergert There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff Can't be any worse than the pict-o-gram knobs and buttons on the newest Aces and Gevos. Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. And while figuring that out, the engine starts screaming at you because you dare had the reverser thrown without throttling up after 0.000000003 seconds! An eternity by biblical proportions!
jeffhergert There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
Then there's the ones that start ringing the alarm bell because the reverser isn't centered, but won't give you, or recognize if it does, the alarm silence button on the computer screen.
The worst was a CP engine that would immediately shut down after centering the reverser. If you didn't, the alerter would need acknowledging every 15 seconds. Even when the independent was applied, which usually suspends the alerter feature. Did I mention it was during the winter with temps around 0 and with the shut down of the engine, the heat also shuts off? It was a long 3 hours stopped at a broken rail.
Speaking of Canadian engines, I think all the CN engines I've been on are marked in French and English. I'm not so sure of CP engines, but I may be seeing some only used in the US. Those that see service in Canada are easy to tell. They have either a hot plate and tea kettle or a microwave oven, I've seen a few with both. They also have a stretcher for emergencies.
I know the CN has freight cars with the English spelling of Canadian National on one side, the French spelling on the other.
zugmann . . . Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. . . .
Paul_D_North_Jr zugmann . . . Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. . . . That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime. - Paul North.
That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime.
Zug makes it sound like a Pac-Man game, almost. It does sound like some recent automobiles and their control labeling, designed to inspire a "what the heck is that supposed to mean?" response, I guess. Makes driving some rental cars a real adventure.
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