ALL:
This is a great tragedy with three railroaders presumed dead. As a retired NP-BN-BNSF clerk from Minneapolis I share the sorrow in this terrible tragedy. It ranks with the Motley, MN head-on for loss of life and damage.
At this early part of the investigation, were both trains on the same track? It appears that all locomotives and a number of cars and containers were destroyed. Does anyone have the numbers of the locomotives involved? One appears to be 7909.
Ed Burns
Yes, a tragic situation to be sure...especially if there was any loss of life or injury (which seems likely). It would seem there are two possible general causes for such a wreck...(a) human error (i.e. one of the train crews blowing through a red block) or (b) dispatch error (i.e. either a mistake by a dispatcher or a fault in the signal system somewhere. Am I missing yet another possibility?
Its always tragic when death rides the rails..
My condolences to their family and follow railroaders that knew and worked with these men.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
eolafan.(a) human error (i.e. one of the train crews blowing through a red block) or (b) dispatch error (i.e. either a mistake by a dispatcher or a fault in the signal system somewhere.
Two of your three (which seems to cover all the causes) are human error.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BNSF news release
FORT WORTH, Texas, June 29, 2016 – Following yesterday’s collision between two trains near Panhandle, Texas, BNSF Railway is deeply saddened to announce that the remains of two BNSF employees have been recovered, while the third missing employee is still unaccounted for. The fourth employee remains in stable condition at a local hospital. The families of the employees involved have been notified, but BNSF is not publicly releasing their names out of respect for the families’ privacy. “The entire BNSF family is terribly saddened by this event and we extend our deepest sympathy and thoughts to the families and friends of the employees involved in this incident. This is an extremely difficult time and our entire organization grieves for the loss of our colleagues,” said Carl Ice, president and chief executive officer.
The investigation is now being overseen by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).
I believe PTC would have prevented this. But there will be plenty of mileage without PTC, and I hope the investigation turns up a measure or two to prevent such a tragedy in the future. Meanwhile, my heart goes out to the families involved.
Kenneth Smith rest in peace
Cody Owens rest in peace
http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2016-06-30/victims-lived-rich-lives-love-family-outdoors
Lara Taylor rest in peace
http://www.meyersfuneralchapel.com/northland/obituaries/2016/06/28/lara-gail-taylor/
Does this guy have to wear his high visibility vest at the press conference? Looks like he expects a train to pass by any time now.
petitnj Does this guy have to wear his high visibility vest at the press conference? Looks like he expects a train to pass by any time now.
Trying to portray himself as a 'hero', fresh from the fight.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Give the guy a break, that’s his usual work clothes, except for the headgear.
"NTSB rail investigator Richard Hipskind documents track damage on scene of train derailment in Lynchburg, VA."
"NTSB rail investigator Richard Hipskind working on scene in Oklahoma, where two Union Pacific freight trains collided."
“NTSB Investigator-in-Charge Richard Hipskind shows Board Member Robert L. Sumwalt around the Casselton, N.D., derailment and explosion scene last week in below-zero temperatures."
petitnjDoes this guy have to wear his high visibility vest at the press conference?
See if the next news conference you see with a police or fire chief has them in street clothes. Guarantee the fire chief will at least have his helmet on.
For the guy in question, it's his "uniform."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
schlimm eolafan .(a) human error (i.e. one of the train crews blowing through a red block) or (b) dispatch error (i.e. either a mistake by a dispatcher or a fault in the signal system somewhere. Two of your three (which seems to cover all the causes) are human error.
eolafan .(a) human error (i.e. one of the train crews blowing through a red block) or (b) dispatch error (i.e. either a mistake by a dispatcher or a fault in the signal system somewhere.
Aren't all causes ultimately human error? Even equipment failure should have been anticipated by the design engineers and a backup or fail-safe system devised or regular maintenance should have detected the imminent failure.
ChuckAllen, TX
cefinkjrAren't all causes ultimately human error? Even equipment failure should have been anticipated by the design engineers and a backup or fail-safe system devised or regular maintenance should have detected the imminent failure.
I'll accept that there are incidents that are outside of the realm of human error. No one was able to specifically predict the tornado that famously derailed a moving train, and I doubt that any reports of said tornado probably would have reached the crew until it was too late - in which case they still might have stopped in the "wrong" spot anyhow.
Some things we know will fail, despite careful and regular inspection and other controls. It's just a matter of figuring out when.
And who knows when a bit of moisture or dirt will get into a brake valve and make it stick, resulting in a dragging wheel?
OTOH, NTSB no longer routinely refers to "accidents." Collisions are called just that - collisions.
I worked with Laura several times on the Garden City rd switcher.As an engr she briefly was assgined to the job and caught it a few times filling in on the extra bd. She will be missed by many of us
I have since heard that one of the engineers went through a red signal, which could have been a major cause of the collision. I did hear from a retired BNSF engineer friend that this engineer had done this before. Was on suspension or fired for a time, and had just returned. We'll never know why because he died in the crash. He also said the conductor in other engine was a woman-I see her pic-. She was right behind him when he jumped but never saw her again. A very tragic situation. Praying for all involved in this sad event.
Sunnyland I have since heard that one of the engineers went through a red signal, which could have been a major cause of the collision. I did hear from a retired BNSF engineer friend that this engineer had done this before. Was on suspension or fired for a time, and had just returned. We'll never know why because he died in the crash. He also said the conductor in other engine was a woman-I see her pic-. She was right behind him when he jumped but never saw her again. A very tragic situation. Praying for all involved in this sad event.
If that statemen is fact based and not hearsay, it brings to mind a very troubling thought.
Norm
This would be a modern example of a "cornfield meet".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpl4Cr3-Tm0
The cornfield wrecks were common in the early 1900s. The fact that this happened in the 21st century with CTC and PTC is sad indeed. (and then the railroad wants to blame the crew as usual is even more sadistic.I am surprised that no one has put out a drone video of the accedent like that did with CSX Lynchburg Oil train wreck
Our hearts and thoughts go out ot the families of the crew members who lost their lives in this tragedy. In this day in age such wrecks should have been a thing of the past. It is no wonder the public at large does not have a high opinion of the industry. I guess the BNSF ripped out the old Santa Fe ATC system after dropping passenger services on this route. That system alone probably would have prevented this disaster. The railroads are always hard pressed to spend money on maintaining safety systems. The railroads are not winning over neither the politicans nor the public. With GPS systems available as well, it is amazing that dispatchers cannot determine two trains are on the same track. With the loss of business, this wreck is just what the BNSF needed is such a horrific loss.
Blaming humans is cheaper than admitting the system is unsafe and rectifying it quickly. No major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC.
CandOforprogress2 This would be a modern example of a "cornfield meet". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpl4Cr3-Tm0 The cornfield wrecks were common in the early 1900s. The fact that this happened in the 21st century with CTC and PTC is sad indeed. (and then the railroad wants to blame the crew as usual is even more sadistic.I am surprised that no one has put out a drone video of the accedent like that did with CSX Lynchburg Oil train wreck
My Grandfather died in such an accident in 1909, at the age of 24. He was a Postal Clerk on the NC&StL between Nashville and Memphis.
schlimmNo major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC.
The line through Panhandle is double tracked.
tree68 schlimm No major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC. The line through Panhandle is double tracked.
schlimm No major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC.
Details, details!
Buslist tree68 schlimm No major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC. The line through Panhandle is double tracked. Details, details!
oops not supposed to be snarky!
schlimm Blaming humans is cheaper than admitting the system is unsafe and rectifying it quickly. No major rail route should be single-tracked, regardless of ATC or PTC.
A single track railroad is not unsafe.
An "expensive model collector"
But Google Earth views look like it is double-tracked. Perhaps this picture was from the Panhandle, OK collision a few years previously. It is a single track line.
So assuming this crash's line is double-tracked, why were trains traveling in opposite directions anywhere near each other on the same track? Sounds like less than optimal safety to most folks. Perhaps we need to be looking at the bigger picture.
schlimmAs posted earlier: "NTSB rail investigator Richard Hipskind working on scene in Oklahoma, where two Union Pacific freight trains collided."
Only two things wrong with using that image and caption as a resource for this incident, which is why you may be confused.
The incident occured in Panhandle, Texas, and the railroad was BNSF. The BNSF line through Panhandle, TX, has two tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiLhBOtOXk
schlimmSo assuming this crash's line is double-tracked, why were trains traveling in opposite directions anywhere near each other on the same track?
That is irrelevent. It doesn't matter if the dispatcher set up the meet that way for a reason or not, those tracks and switches are there to be used as needed and the situation dictates.
schlimm Sounds like less than optimal safety to most folks.
Sounds like less than optimal safety to most folks.
Link? Or are we to assume you speak for "most folks" now? However it is no less safe than an intersection protected by stop lights. You expect the other traffic to comply with signal indication.
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