Good memory, Jeff !
For those who want to know, here's the link to a pretty good explanation of a (single) saw-by - 1 train too long, a double saw-by - both trains too long - commonly written about, and a reverse saw-by (first time I've ever seen that term and explanation):
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1257921
- Paul North.
Thanks for the reminder Jeff.
RIP Casey. A childhood hero of mine, and nothing I've read about him in the past 50-plus years has caused me to change my opinion.
Paul_D_North_Jr Might even bring back the saw-by meet or pass. - Paul North.
Might even bring back the saw-by meet or pass.
How ironic, mentioning meeting trains by sawing them through on the anniversary of one time that didn't work out so well.
Only one person killed, but they did write a song about it.
Jeff
dakotafredThe June TRAINS, whose cover story concerns the trend to long trains, says there was only one of those super jobs on the UP, it caused such an operations snarl. To this day, UP has a lot of work to do on sidings and yards before it can super-size, the story says. Finding the stretch room for longer sidings is a problem in itself, even up here in roomy North Dakota (for BNSF).
Finding the stretch room for longer sidings is a problem in itself, even up here in roomy North Dakota (for BNSF).
*Enough sidings close together could function as double / 2MT, with the end turnouts similar to universal crossovers.
Total Distribution Services Inc; it's part of CSX.
Norm
Norm48327just one working TDSI
Please explain to this ignorant one what TDSI is.
UP's current System Special Instructions allow an intermodal train to be up to 18000 feet long. To run that size they are required to be DP with the DP consists positioned 6000 feet apart. Even so, outside of the test train I've not heard of them running another that big. I have seen a couple 12 or 13000 foot stack trains.
Conventional manifest are allowed 10000 feet. DP manifests can be 15000 feet long. The midtrain DP consist must be within 8500 feet of the lead consist and equipped with an EOT repeater.
Contrary to what the story said, UP does operate monster trains east of North Platte to Proviso. We even have three symbols that are currently limited to 40mph because they often are 9500+ feet. Trouble is the restriction applies on days when they are more normal sized. Lately, two of those east bound manifests that regularly run big have been reducing before crossing the Mississippi. Even so, last night MNPPR was 10000 ft leaving Clinton. It was 12000 ft going into there.
They have even ran a 10000 ft manifest up the single track Short Line (or now more commonly known as the Spine Line) where no siding could hold it.
Firelock76Watch what happens the first time a monster train blocks some emergency vehicles, police, fire, or EMT, especially in this lawsuit-crazed society where the ambulance-chasers are always circling like sharks.
That happened just a few days ago in New Boston, MI. It wasn't a monster train, just one working TDSI. House is a total loss and the town mayor is screaming mad.
The U.P. experimented with this in 2010. I recall this news article. It drew lots of attention with all sorts of different concerns and perspectives.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/13/local/la-me-monster-train13-2010jan13
From the linked article:
An apparently unprecedented, super freight train extending about 3 1/2 miles rolled through Southern California over the weekend, catching state regulators off guard and prompting concerns about potential safety risks and traffic delays, The Times has learned.
Union Pacific said that the train was used to test equipment and find ways to improve operating efficiency, but that the company had no plans to run such trains regularly.
Some officials worry that the train may be a harbinger of things to come in a crowded region where passenger and freight trains already share tracks that cross hundreds of intersections bustling with cars and trucks.
"I will be asking a lot more questions," said Democratic U.S. Rep. Grace Napolitano, whose San Gabriel Valley district includes part of the train route.
"If they're testing to increase the size of trains in L.A., I have a problem with that," she said.
The state Public Utilities Commission raced a team to Imperial County on Saturday to monitor the train as it headed toward the Inland Empire. The train originally left Texas on Friday night and reached its ultimate destination, a large intermodal facility near the Port of Long Beach, on Sunday.
"We were quite concerned about it, which was why we scrambled our people to be out there Saturday to essentially find out what was going on," said Richard W. Clark, who oversees rail safety at the PUC.
There are no state or federal limits on the length of trains or requirements to notify agencies about unusually long trains, officials said. Union Pacific said it did alert local federal regulators, who observed the train's movement.
The 18,000-foot-long train was two to three times the length of a typical freight train, Clark said, and the largest he knew to operate in the state.
It linked 295 rail cars, carrying more than 600 cargo containers, mostly double-stacked, said Tom Lange, a Union Pacific spokesman. Nine locomotives were spread along the train and additional personnel were on board to monitor equipment.
The train, the longest ever assembled by Union Pacific, was permitted to travel up to 65 mph as it crossed the Los Angeles Basin, Lange said. He said the train needed three to five minutes to clear a grade crossing.
The test was part of an effort to explore ways to "better serve our customers," Lange said. Such trains reduce the chances of derailment, he said, because locomotive power is distributed along the train, easing stress on couplers and other equipment.
I live in a city of 175,000 people. I've been caught in several traffic snarls in the last year that held me up more than 7 minutes. I'm going to ask the city to not allow other cars on the streets between 5:00 and 6:00pm.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
It is hard to say how much the public reaction will be based on real delays versus the perception that longer trains will cause unacceptable delays. How many cars are they talking about with this new trend to longer trains? I can’t see that 100 more cars is going to cause a crossing time legal violation. It is usually a case of stopping on a crossing that brings the unacceptable delays. Some railroads routinely ran relatively long trains in the past. The CGW, Milwaukee, and Omaha each ran lots of trains that were 200 cars plus. The longest I heard of on the Milwaukee was 270 cars.
Watch what happens the first time a monster train blocks some emergency vehicles, police, fire, or EMT, especially in this lawsuit-crazed society where the ambulance-chasers are always circling like sharks.
There's probably a time and a place for monster trains, but they better be careful about the time and place. Out on the Great Plains where there's miles and miles of nuthin', probably OK. In urban, suburban, or built-up areas, not such a good idea.
The June TRAINS, whose cover story concerns the trend to long trains, says there was only one of those super jobs on the UP, it caused such an operations snarl. To this day, UP has a lot of work to do on sidings and yards before it can super-size, the story says.
I don't know to what extent train lengths are expected to grow. But I do recall an experiment by U.P. a few years ago when they ran an exceptionally long train as an experiment. The intent was to study the feasibility for routine practice, and they publically announced that. As I recall, there was plenty of official objection to the plan.
I am wondering what push back will occur in response to grade crossings being blocked for long times by the new trend to longer trains. Mny cities already have laws about how long a RR can obstuct a crossing (which requires trains to be split if stopped). If a two mile long train has to go through a town and because of a crossover or a connecting track, its speed is twenty mph, a crossing can be blocked for over seven minutes or more. Or if it has to wait for an opposing train for a meet, are there enough locations where a two mile long train can fit between crossings? As in the case of the CSX mess in Richmond, VA.
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