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Updates on Multi-Tracking the Two BNSF Transcons

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Posted by dpeltier on Thursday, December 8, 2022 8:20 AM

blue streak 1

Will the center pivot be removved from old bridge to provide wider navigation or is that needed?

 

Not needed. Other than some concrete repairs above the low-water mark, nothing is happening with any of the piers on the old bridge.

Dan

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, December 8, 2022 12:50 AM

Will the center pivot be removved from old bridge to provide wider navigation or is that needed?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, December 7, 2022 8:16 AM

Other reports also said some track alignment work has to be done around the historic Sandpoint Railroad Station to fit in double track at that point and in that area.

That work is supposed to be going on simultaneously with the upgrade work on the original bridge so that when the original bridge is reopened, the double track all the way through Sandpoint will also be fully open.

https://keepsandpointrolling.com/project-updates/

 

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Posted by dpeltier on Tuesday, December 6, 2022 10:33 AM

blue streak 1

Some write ups say the project is complete. Not so. Now BNSF has taken the old spans out of service to do much needed upgrades.  BNSF release says it will be mid 2023 before all the spans are replaced.  At least now upgrades can go full speed ahead.   Sandpoint residents probably will not understand why there is still the bottle neck.

Much of the work on the old bridge will have to wait until spring. In the winter they draw down lake levels to the point where 2/3 of the bridge and the spot in shore where they load and unload barges are inaccessible by water. They'll be doing some work over the winter, but the site will really get busy again in the spring when the water comes back up.

Right now Sandpoint is a single-track bottleneck a couple miles long. Once the double-track is in place, taking either bridge out of service will result in over 10 miles of single track. So, it makes sense to do a heavy rehab of the existing bridge before putting the double track in service.

Dan

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, December 5, 2022 9:31 PM

This document gives infomation on the Northern Transcon Mandan Bridge, but slide 24 gives insight into the planning process for the Southern Transcon Second Sibley Bridge to be built just slightly downstream from the existing Sibley Bridge.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/BNSF%20Design%20Concept%20Explanation_6NOV2019%20FINAL%20Version_Redacted.pdf

 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Monday, December 5, 2022 4:58 PM

SD60MAC9500
I don't know if BNSF will even need a new bridge at Sibley, MO. BNSF could very well upgrade the connection at Bucklin, MO in the NW corner between the Marceline and Brookfield Sub's. Since the Brookfield and Marceline Sub's parrallel each other between Bucklin and KCMO.

I'm pretty sure that BNSF will proceed with a new second single track bridge. The Brookfield sub to the west ends at NS trackage rights, then proceeds over another bridge to Santa Fe Jct. Two parallel single track bridges come in real handy when maintenance has to be performed.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 5, 2022 12:14 PM

Some write ups say the project is complete. Not so. Now BNSF has taken the old spans out of service to do much needed upgrades.  BNSF release says it will be mid 2023 before all the spans are replaced.  At least now upgrades can go full speed ahead.   Sandpoint residents probably will not understand why there is still the bottle neck.

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Posted by diningcar on Monday, December 5, 2022 8:14 AM

Let's not overlook tunnels for vertical clearance issues. BNSF has a clearance program which they use to route high/wide loads along routes where those loads will clear any known obstacles.

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Posted by David1005 on Monday, December 5, 2022 12:50 AM

One of the issues with these old truss bridges is vertical clearance. The railroads are currently pushing 20' 6". I do not know how high it will go. If electrification is in the future of this line 26' is probably the clearance needed. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, December 4, 2022 10:08 PM

History of the ATSF bridge at Sibley, MO with many historical photos:

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2017/01/santa-fe-bridge-over-missouri-river.html

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, December 4, 2022 2:10 PM

Back in 2010, BNSF replaced 7 spans on the Mississippi River Bridge at Burlington, IA.

In 2020 they replaced the Missouri River Bridge at Plattsmouth, NE.

They are wrapping up the second bridge over Lake Coeur d'Alene, ID and associated track changes in Sandpoint, ID.

They have been working their way through the second main track in the Flint Hills of KS.

They are working on 30 miles of 3rd main track between Needle and Goffs, CA.

They have received all their permits for the replacement of the Missouri River Bridge between Mandan and Bismarck, ND.

They are working on permits for the Barstow International Gateway in CA.

The apparently have initial permitting going on for the second bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO, as evidenced by the USCG presentation listed a few posts back.

Maybe after all those other projects listed are completed, the Sibley Bridge will get funded and constructed.

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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, December 3, 2022 5:26 PM

As mentioned in my earlier posting, the 44-mile Williams-Crookton Arizona line change of 1959-1960 was completed in fifteen (15) months. 

Today it would take more than 15 months to determine how many permits would be required. 

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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, December 3, 2022 5:15 PM

As mentioned in my earlier post, the 44-mile Williams-Crookton line change in 1959-60 took only fifteen months. Today you could not even, in fifteen months, determine what forms to fill out for such a project.  

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, December 3, 2022 4:23 PM

https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/api/collection/p16021coll11/id/2117/download

See page 13. I know these big projects take a long time to get through the permitting stage.

I recall Matt Rose said something to the effect that Warren Buffett had told him to build the railroad for the next 100 years or something of that nature.

BNSF has steadily hacked away at bottleneck after bottleneck under Berkshire Hathaway ownership.

So, to paraphrase Lloyd Christmas, "I'm sayin' there's a chance!"

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Saturday, December 3, 2022 11:52 AM
 

PeteM3

Mike,

From what I remember, the Missouri River bridge at Sibley is still undone (even planned?). 

 

I don't know if BNSF will even need a new bridge at Sibley, MO. BNSF could very well upgrade the connection at Bucklin, MO in the NW corner between the Marceline and Brookfield Sub's. Since the Brookfield and Marceline Sub's parrallel each other between Bucklin and KCMO.

 

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by dpeltier on Wednesday, November 23, 2022 9:01 PM

MikeF90

Per a local rail(fan) posting on The Other site, BNSF is cutting over the new Lake Pend Oreille bridge on the northern transcon as we write.

 

BNSF article: https://www.bnsf.com/news-media/railtalk/heritage/sandpoint.html

This article links to a video with some drone footage and with some commentary from the project leaders (from BNSF, Ames Construction, and Hanson Engineering). Ryan and Max have done a fantastic job managing the construction for BNSF.

Trains also had an article on the opening: https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/bnsf-opens-new-bridge-at-sandpoint-idaho/.

And Railway Age actually has a detailed and accurate description of the work planned for the old bridge before it goes back in service: https://www.railwayage.com/mw/bnsfs-new-sandpoint-bridge-opens-for-business/

Dan

 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Sunday, November 20, 2022 4:48 PM

Per a local rail(fan) posting on The Other site, BNSF is cutting over the new Lake Pend Oreille bridge on the northern transcon as we write.

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Posted by MikeF90 on Tuesday, November 8, 2022 6:57 PM

As I mentioned above it seems strange that the Sandpoint, ID new bridge project has been moving right along compared to the land-bound Emporia sub 2MT upgrade. Per the local newspaper/BNSF PR the new bridge should open this month. When the project wraps up (early?) next year the old bridge will be refurbished and then they will finally have 2MT.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, November 3, 2022 6:49 PM

UPDATE: Rose Hill,Ks to RR East(?)  As opf this date 11/03/2022[Thurs] Judging by the 'traffic flow' and the 'timing' it would seem that the major part of the double tracking from Rose Hill(At the crossing for dwntn Rose Hill out to approx, just west of the crossing for Thunder Hill Rd.)  Distance is approx 4 mies (?). Wednesday, after a low level of traffic in the morning; it picked up to a train about every 15 to 20 min.  Thursday AM was similar until about 6 PM..  At the storage site just west of Santa Fe Lake Rd;  all the staged materials were gone(Sunday10/30/20220).  Seems like current line construction has been accomplshed, for now?  

Added[ 11/11/2022@0800AM]   To put a period on the recent construction from Rose ill,Ks. to the point towards Auigusta(West).  As I metioned earlier, the double tracking construction from Rose Hill towards Augusta(West) deems tohave ended at thepont about 100yrds West of the crossing at Thunder Hill Rd. That point has a 'new' mlti-headed signal stand, in place. That track distance from ther to the end of the current end of the Augusta West (passing siding) seems to be less than 3 miles(?).  

note,P.S. on Thurs 11/10/2022 an eastbnd, work train passed here with two (possibly , L&R pre-fabbed single track switches(?), and a dozen  Ballast cars (BNSF Company(?), all the cars are still lettered UPRR). Also, there has been a ecently installed culvert just east mof the crossing on Thunder Rd; approx a mile(?) west of the current end of the Augusta West passing sidings(?) ....So some 'construction' seems to be still in the planning stages to close another 'gap'  ???  

     

 

 


 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, October 23, 2022 10:18 AM

rdamon

   THANKS!  [rdamon]  Was unaware of this 'new' camera site...  According to the site info'; started in July of this year and went 'live' 07/24/2022...   The BNSF's Arkcity sub rosses the Southern T-con at Mulvane. Eldorado sub (Main3)  whch junctions with the Arkcity sub just north of the old Mulvane Santa Fe station (now museum), and proceeds {east?} via Rose Hill and Augusta.]    The line between Mulvane and Wellington s double tracked and with the traffic coming down from KC and via Wichita from the (east?) [puts the count at around 60 trains a day?]..  So the new VR Camera sure sheds some more light on the traffic BNSF/ BNG RR & SKOL RR around here, that would ormally, not get seen.

* [ BNG RR is Blackwell Northern Gateway- Between Blackwell, OK (and intermediate points) to connection with BNSF at Welington, Ks., and then trackage rights to BNSF Wichita Yard for interchange(?).]*

 

 


 

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, October 21, 2022 7:20 AM
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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, October 19, 2022 10:51 PM

"....Likewise, the Emporia sub 2MT upgrade seems to be going quite slowly given the 'relative' flatness of eastern Kansas. I often see stopped eastbound traffic on the Wichita VR webcam just waiting for that new MT Smile.Likewise, the Emporia sub 2MT upgrade seems to be going quite slowly given the 'relative' flatness of eastern Kansas. I often see stopped eastbound traffic on the Wichita VR webcam just waiting for that new MT Smile...."

MikeF90...[ period of Fri. 10/14 to Mon.10/17/2022]  [North of Mulvane, RREast?}  seemed as if there was so little traffic it was nreal; whattraffic there was was odd MOW moves, several of those 'angled,switch carrier' cars(?) were seen moving East.  Their pre-fabbed assembleys seemed to  be rather large(?). Not sure if they were for the 'roject between Rose Hill (Ks.) and the area West of Augusta, Ks ? Where there is an existing long siding, and second track paralel to the passing siding... Isuspect that may be the oint thatthe 'new' construction will 'tie' into (?). That line from the construction oint at the Santa Fe Lake Road, is a  single track (not much of it is straight, but seems to be wide enough to double up(?).  There has been some large drainage tube run under the existing line, whochwould seem to indicate preps for a parallel line(?).  Hopefully, I'll be abe tgeto olver t theat area and scope it out, soon(?)...  Out on the East side of Augusta, there are several (4?) long tracks, where they seem to stage trains at times, that seem to be awaiting power(?)... Unfortunately, have not been able to get out towards the Matfield Green or (Bazaar Cattle Pens area) on I-35 to see progress in that area.   

As to that VR camera (?) for the Wichita area, can you post a URL for it... Thanks!

 

 


 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Sunday, October 16, 2022 2:30 AM

PeteM3
So, how many 2MT projects (Southern Transcon) are as yet undone? From what I remember, the Missouri River bridge at Sibley is still undone (even planned?). What about the Salt River bridge at Alva, OK? The last I remember reading was that some grading was done, but nothing after that.

Hey PeteM3, that's pretty much what i know. I think a 'railfan rumor' post somewhere said that the Sibley bridge project would be started when the Sandpoint, ID bridge and Emporia 2MT projects are winding down. Cash flow is cash flow.... 

Fixed my Southern Transcon link in my sig, discovered that Firefox was blocking some fields but Brave worked. Browser diversity is good Yes.

I was watching the RfAz Kingman camera but it just went down again, oh well. The AZ/NM small towns the cameras are in seem to have frequent ISP or power issues.

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Posted by PeteM3 on Saturday, October 15, 2022 11:22 AM

Mike,

Problem with the Southern Transcon link again. Please fix.

So, how many 2MT projects (Southern Transcon) are as yet undone? From what I remember, the Missouri River bridge at Sibley is still undone (even planned?). What about the Salt River bridge at Alva, OK? The last I remember reading was that some grading was done, but nothing after that.

Pete

 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:25 PM

Just checked updated ATCSMon Emporia East layout, confirmed that Aikman to Matfield Green new 2MT was cut in at the end of September.  There is 9 miles of single track left from CP E Matfield Green to CP Flint (former E Bazar), 2MT probably to be completed in 2023.

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Posted by MikeF90 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 4:17 PM

Good eye, samfp1943 !

That seems to match my speculation that a universal crossover may be built to the west which would make a lengthened Salter siding about three miles long - good for monster train staging. Yes, a new second main track will built extending west to East Jct and east to West Augusta. We'll wait and see ....

Location on southern transcon Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/view?mid=1VRnODytoJvQobOqykJUwAH2FU4w&ll=37.60000000000059%2C-96.99999999999999&z=11

EDIT: fixed references to siding

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 2:18 PM

[quote user="MikeF90"]

Per a KS local frequent poster on The Other railfan site, BNSF contractors are actually grading near El Dorado for the 2MT project. No word on the Augusta to Mulvane single track section yet.

Meanwhile they seem to be working all along the ROW between Bazaar and Aikman including both highway and RR bridges.  Hard to tell when specific blocks will be completed and cut over.

On the nearby Wichita railcam traffic patterns look pretty wild to me. I've seen both northbound (RR east) and southbound trains held and passed by higher priority ones in the same direction!

 [quote]
 
 
Monday: 10/04/2022
 
Mike F90: 
 
I hope this will appear in the right order in this THREAD !!      Seems to be getting so many responses that the TRAINS Computer system is starting to loose its' mind as to the order in its 'mind'??
 
Sunday: 10/03/2022:  We were returning from SE Kansas. and as we crossed over the BNSF tracks at Santa Fe Lake Road; [ RR East of Rose Hill,Ks.] I noticed  a number of heavy earth movers parked East of the crossing. adjacent to the ROW. Appeared to have been used to build up the grade for another adjacent track on the south side of the existing single track(?).  Right to mthe west of that road crossing there appeared to be preperatioon to add a third track on the soputh side of existing trackwork.  For some time the BNSF has used a gravel lot to 'stage' a large amount of what looks to be 'signal' type(?) supplies...
  Not sure how far the track work is proceeding to the East of the Rose Hill(Ks,) area ; my guess is, at least three miles(?), and I have no idea how far to the East of Santa Fe Lake Rd it continues. The next road crossing is, maybe, four to five miles, and then it picks up an existing double tracked area just West of the Augsta, Ks area(?)...  Augsta is where the line splits towards Mulvane/Wellington (*BNSF's Southern T- Con], and then one track turns souith towards Winfield and Arkansas City; and South towards Oklahoma.  :[Large Yard in Ark City].
 
Sorry for this verbal description...Google Map was unhelpful Sigh... Hope this will show-up,  where it is readable, in the Thread Zip it!  ..
 

 

 


 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Saturday, August 20, 2022 6:01 PM

samfp1943
Here, aty the house, we are starting to notice some of the Westbnd 'Land Barges' seem to be regularly compliations of JBH's stackers and Import/Export TOFCs; origin might be Garner, Kansas(?) (surprising the amount of growth that has sprung up around the big yard there; from the highway, it would seem to be about 4-5 miles in length(?).. Not sure how much traffic origins at KCK or KCM0 (?). Comes via Mulvane.(?)

I agree that much of the IM traffic originates or ends at the Logistics Park Kansas City (LPKC) yard in Gardner. It was built recently as better functioning, longer yard than the old Argentine yard in downtown KC. Looks like westward or eastward traffic can use the yard. I see many fast Z or Q 'shorties' on the La Plata cam that probably terminate there.

BTW the VR Hesperia/Cajon cam has returned to active status - yay! The Cajon sub is extremely busy, probably second only to Barstow - Belen.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, August 17, 2022 9:51 PM

MikeF90 I really can't  speak to much traffic on the UPRRR's North- South line into Wichita [former RI (OKT sub) ]; it is approx 9/10 miles West of this area. I do get into Wellinmgton/Hayuesville areas occasionally, seems about all I've gotten to see on  (UPR) there, has been grain trains.   

Here, aty the house, we are starting to notice some of the Westbnd 'Land Barges' seem to be regularly compliations of JBH's stackers and Import/Export TOFCs; origin might be Garner, Kansas(?)  (surprising the amount of growth that has sprung up around the big yard there; from the highway, it would seem to be about 4-5 miles in length(?).. Not sure how much traffic  origins at KCK or KCM0 (?). Comes via Mulvane.(?) 

Even the traffic running via Arkansas City thru Winfield, can go several directions; ArkCity Yard north via Augusta into Flint Hills and on to KC area. West via Udall to Mulvane and on to Wichita, or West to Wellngton, and onto the S. Tcon.

Or Mulvane and Derby and into Wichita; or take the Mulvane(East) line, and turn back to Agusta and ENE. Or take the lower line(E-W) at Mullvane arcoss from the East line to a connection on the West side of Mulvane to the S,T-con.  There are plenty of trains to watch around here, going in a number of directions.  I was told by one of the BNSF supevisors, the traffic amounted , at time to around 60.or so, trains; onto, and off of, the lines thru here. 

 

 


 

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Posted by PeteMthree on Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:20 PM

Mike, 

AOK with the new link. 

Thanks,

Pete

 

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