This showed up on my facebook feed, so I thought it would be worth sharing. This blog was written by Georgetta Gregory (chief of the NTSB Railroad Division):
"Fatigue in transportation is such a significant concern for the NTSB that it has put “Reduce Fatigue-Related Accidents” on its Most Wanted List of transportation safety improvements. It is not just an issue in rail, but an issue in all modes of transportation that must be addressed."
Read the rest:
https://safetycompass.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/rail-workers-deadly-tiredbut-still-working/
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
The article cites "three decades of research"...yes, its time to "implement what was learned".
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=micro+naps+while+driving&view=detail&mid=DE4FDB8895DEB0930246DE4FDB8895DEB0930246&FORM=VIRE
zugmann This showed up on my facebook feed, so I thought it would be worth sharing. This blog was written by Georgetta Gregory (chief of the NTSB Railroad Division): "Fatigue in transportation is such a significant concern for the NTSB that it has put “Reduce Fatigue-Related Accidents” on its Most Wanted List of transportation safety improvements. It is not just an issue in rail, but an issue in all modes of transportation that must be addressed." Read the rest: https://safetycompass.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/rail-workers-deadly-tiredbut-still-working/
As a now- retired Safety Manager, I am non-plused, but unsurprised by the coments by Ms. Gregory. Twenty plus years ago, I had attended a number of sessions provided by not only Federal regulatory agencies, but some local governmental agencies, and Industry-lead training sessions regarding various periods of sleep deprivation due to 'tight scheduling' (and attendant delays enroute). Circadian ryhthm interruptions, and the phenomenom called "Micro Nap-now referred to as Micro Sleep)".
Truck drivers, driving,alone or pushing to make an 'on-time' derlivery, were having rear-end accidents, or running into stopped vehicles on the roadway orrunning off a long straight-way, when failing to make a curve, dozing off, late at night; or driving into an early sunrise, unrested, and victimized by a micro sleep episode.
link to a video on a lab test for micro sleep @ http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=micro+naps+while+driving&view=detail&mid=DE4FDB8895DEB0930246DE4FDB8895DEB0930246&FORM=VIRE
Unrested crews have been problematic on railroads for a long time. THe accident mentioned by Ms. Gregory's post of the BNSF coal train rear-ending a stopped train of MOW equipment at Red Oak, Ia is one example of the cost of lack of sleep. Back about 2000 there was a post on the BNSF Home Page that they were (then) actiovely considering a process that woulld place a 'bunk' in the locomotive cab, and allowing one member to 'take a break'- with the 'consent' of the other crew member, who would agree to stay away [ presumably the rest would be taken while the train was 'stopped and awaiting permission to porceed'. I suspect that this was never 'approved' at a management level?
On my carrier - If a train is stopped and is made aware that they will be stopped for and 'amount' of time the crew members are authorized to take upto a 45 minte nap - Individually, with the other crew member remaining awake and alert and able to answer the appropriate communication devices.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Welcome to our world, fatigue is a major problem industry-wide and the Companies don't want to address it because acknowledging it would force them to make changes that would impact the bottom line.
BaltACD On my carrier - If a train is stopped and is made aware that they will be stopped for and 'amount' of time the crew members are authorized to take upto a 45 minte nap - Individually, with the other crew member remaining awake and alert and able to answer the appropriate communication devices.
Years ago CN had a similar program, it even go to the point where locomotives were being fitted with the baultar "sleepr" seats that lean back almost flat, all the better to take a nap in. But management ended the program over the Union's objections, and now trainmasters sneak up to trains in the middle of the night while you're stopped in the siding spying to see if you're napping, and if you're caught even for one second with your eyes closed you are issued demerits or suspended.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
At 84 years of age, I find I doze off easily. Even when attending a lecture of material which interests me (and often a young student will tap my leg with his to wake me) or even atending a concert with music that I love and awaited with anticipation to hear. Before moving to Jerusalem, I did own car (history, first a Ford Mainline, then two Covrairs in succession), and I found the radio an absolute necessity to keep me awake on long trips, except when conversation witih a friend riding with me (and usually sharing the driving) was an excellent alternative.
In Jerusalem, unlike New York or any other North American transit system, and not like the light rail line, bus drivers usually have a radio on, distributed to passengers through the bus public addrss system, never too loud to prevent normal conversation, and interrupted by the station announcements. The latest news is always the program of highest priority, reflecting our need for security information.
When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
Or maybe another solution would be to have the two-man crew continualy converse with each other in a constructive conversation, reviewing rules that are supposed to be commited to memory, having a sort of game of alternating the stations and control points along the line with the winner the one that lways reponse correcdtly and the looser the one who misses a point. If I were an active engineer or conductor I would dream up such a conversation game with my fellow crew-member to keep us both awake.
daveklepperWhen PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
Locomotives nowadays have alerters, set to go off every couple of minutes at the longest (on our ALCO's it's at least partly speed related), but I believe it's been found that an engineer can do that in his sleep. A radio (satellite?) might help, but if you're tired enough, a brass band isn't going to help.
Besides, what if the engineer likes heavy metal and the conductor is a country fan?
Aside from the other crew member (who, if equally tired may be asleep, too), about the only solution might be introducing a more complex method of clearing the alerter - maybe like that thing they use on the Internet to prove you're not a robot. A code appears on a display and it would have to be entered exactly on a keypad...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
All these ideas are not mutually exclusive, and again, if I were an active engineer or conductor, and my partner in the locomotive cab was willing, I would at least do what I suggest in the last paragraph, have a continiual useful conversation.
All of the above suggestions are very sensible. Additionally, have regularly scheduled shifts for weeks at a time. Shifting sleep schedules would help fight fatigue. I don't know who objects to this, but certainly the unions fear reducing working hours. This is an interesting battle where railroads attempt to use human subjects in ways that won't work. PTC will lead to unmanned trains and then watch the unions scream!
tree68 daveklepper When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives? Locomotives nowadays have alerters, set to go off every couple of minutes at the longest (on our ALCO's it's at least partly speed related), but I believe it's been found that an engineer can do that in his sleep. A radio (satellite?) might help, but if you're tired enough, a brass band isn't going to help. Besides, what if the engineer likes heavy metal and the conductor is a country fan? Aside from the other crew member (who, if equally tired may be asleep, too), about the only solution might be introducing a more complex method of clearing the alerter - maybe like that thing they use on the Internet to prove you're not a robot. A code appears on a display and it would have to be entered exactly on a keypad...
daveklepper When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
I have suggested that in the past... but I'd have the code displayed on the Engineer's console to be entered on the Conductor's console and vice-versa (alternately or randomly)... one crew member must read the code and the other must enter it... keep them both busy, and some way to make the code pertinate to the situation; randomly ask for the time, speed, notch number, air pressure, last milepost, or some engine parameter that varies somewhat (oil pressure, current, voltage, temperature, etc.).
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Commercial aviation has this problem, too. I remember from quite a few years ago, a crew fell asleep in the cockpit and it wasn't discovered until air traffic control noticed that the flight did not begin its approach to the airport.
It is a fine line between complicating the alerter reset procedure to prevent unconscious reset; and having the reset procedure become a burden on the crewmember. The technology will lead to an alerter that will know when an alert is needed, and will act only then.
Remember too, that the theories behind this fatigue problem are not just a simple lack of sleep. Instead, they are about a medical problem affecting some people and caused by rotating shifts and/or simple constant nightshift. Having defined the issue that way, the industry and its regulators must screen and test to find which employees have this medial problem, and either successfully treat them or remove them from safety sensitive service.
This screening and testing will have to be ongoing, and it will investigate and advise on all of an employee’s activities and lifestyle both on and off duty, including all types of food, drink, and medications consumed.
Euclid This screening and testing will have to be ongoing, and it will investigate and advise on all of an employee’s activities and lifestyle both on and off duty, including all types of food, drink, and medications consumed.
EuclidThis screening and testing will have to be ongoing, and it will investigate and advise on all of an employee’s activities and lifestyle both on and off duty, including all types of food, drink, and medications consumed.
Sounds like it came from a former New York mayor.
Norm
Well, I am certainly not advocating this. I am also not convinced that the diagnosis of the problem is accurate. But the definition of the problem and its remedy amount to an enormous challenge. It is about so much more than getting enough sleep. It is also about diet, exercise, and lifestyle; and also about everything in person’s medical history.
Given what we've read in the past about the irregular working hours faced by railroad crews, sleep - particularly the consistency thereof - is probably one of the easiest fixes.
I would submit that it would take old-style boarding houses to improve the on-the-road diet of crews in general. Many locales have a burger/fast food joint. Not many have a place where you can get a good old meat-and-potatoes meal at a reasonable price and in a reasonable amount of time.
Exercise would also benefit from longer rest times. Even assuming the equipment is available (as it is at many motels), it's hard to fit a decent sleep, a decent meal, and some decent exercise into the time currently allotted.
tree68 I would submit that it would take old-style boarding houses to improve the on-the-road diet of crews in general. Many locales have a burger/fast food joint. Not many have a place where you can get a good old meat-and-potatoes meal at a reasonable price and in a reasonable amount of time.
Many UP or BNSF crew change locations have a Oak Tree Inn. I've stayed in a couple, and they are sort of a Motel 8 but with important differences. Extra attention was given to soundproofing, both from street noise and the hallway or adjacent rooms. Many also have an attached Penny's Diner open 24 hours featuring all day breakfast and sort of a retro-1950's diner menu.
About four years ago, while on a trip retuning home from Ohio, I was tired as was my wife who was driving and while on I65 North of Lafayette IN, I was dozing and my wife unintentionally dozed (as in the video). I woke up as the car ran over the shoulder rumble strips. We hit the guard rail at about 60 mph and totaled the car. Seat belts and air bags did their job and we walked away unharmed. We were fortunate that traffic was lite for I65 and no other vehicles were close emough to be involved. Others stopped and the State Police came, got a wrecker and within about three hours, we were on our way in a rental car. So close to what could have been so bad.
One may think that they can stay awake but the body will do what it needs to keep functioning as in the video.
I think the companies and the Unions ned to work to resolve how to provide sensible consistant crew schedules that will recognize this problem and still maintain an economical solution. I have heard that this is one good thing about being in passenger service is that you have a defined schedule that you can count on. The FEC's idea of having scheduled freight trains departing from both ends of the RR and crews swapping when they meet so that they are home at the end of each trip is a great start. The great proponent of scheduled service E. H. Harrison, should try scheduling crews in an intellegent manor. As should other RR executives.
When it comes to asking 'the Feds' for 'quality of life' rules to be put in place; be careful what you ask for. You may no longer be able to afford a life of quality.
The HOS regulations that were enacted at the instigation of the Brotherhoods a couple of years ago decreased T&E earnings potential by about 26%. Once one factors additional rest required of 'limbo time' the earnings potential is decreased even further.
The one thing that is most misunderstood is that this problem is not directly caused by a lack of sleep. That used to be the common thinking maybe 20 years ago or so. If you are tired, get more sleep. It was simple. The problem of insufficient sleep was thought to be caused by night shift workers trying to sleep in the daytime and being kept awake by typical daytime activity and noise. But that is old school thinking.
The problem has been redefined in recent times as something called Shiftwork Sleep Disorder or SWSD. A lack of sleep does not cause SWSD. A lack of sleep results from SWSD.
There are two factors in the cause of SWSD:
A work schedule that interrupts the circadian rhythm.
Whether or not a person will succumb to SWSD.
Both factors must be present in order to a person to have SWSD. Whether a person works on a schedule that interrupts the circadian rhythm is easy to determine. But whether or not a person will succumb to SWSD requires testing. I do not know what is involved in testing, but I gather that it looks at many factors, and has to be done on an ongoing basis to guard against the sudden onset of SWSD.
If a person tests positive for SWSD, they cannot work in a safety-sensitive job. They must be taken out of such a job, and treated for SWSD. They cannot return to the safety-sensitive job until or unless they are cured of SWSD.
I expect that as this moves forward, the testing will be further refined, and it will also require a variety of lifestyle factors and record keeping. I suspect that there is a widely held fear that this testing will be intrusive in the dictation of lifestyle factors when off duty.
But the larger fear will be the potential to be permanently removed from a safety-sensitive job if SWSD is found to exist in a person and it cannot be successfully treated.
BaltACD When it comes to asking 'the Feds' for 'quality of life' rules to be put in place; be careful what you ask for. You may no longer be able to afford a life of quality. The HOS regulations that were enacted at the instigation of the Brotherhoods a couple of years ago decreased T&E earnings potential by about 26%. Once one factors additional rest required of 'limbo time' the earnings potential is decreased even further.
quote fromElectroliner 1935 post on this Thread: "... The FEC's idea of having scheduled freight trains departing from both ends of the RR and crews swapping when they meet so that they are home at the end of each trip is a great start. The great proponent of scheduled service E. H. Harrison, should try scheduling crews in an intellegent manor. As should other RR executives..."
This would seem to be a reasonable way to handle a sticky situation and keep crews happy. There used to be a regular 'meet' on the Southern Rwy's line at Cherokee,Ala. each morning between 10AM, and Noon between East and Westbound trains.
Variations in rotating shift work:
A brother of mine rotated shifts every week for several years when working at the Ensley Wire Mill (US Steel)--first shift one week, second shift the next week, and third shift for a week before starting over. He was salaried, working in Quality Control.
The worst I have known of was the schedule for the man who worked five days a week as the relief operator at a three-trick station--0700-1500 Saturday and Sunday; 1500-2300 Monday and Tuesday; and 2300 Wednesday-0700 Thursday. I never did know the schedule of the operator who took the 2300 Thursday-0700 Friday trick (I never saw him--nor did I ever talk with the man who worked the third trick for five nights a week; I did see him selling peanuts at high school and junior college football games; he was known as "Peanut").
The best rotating shift I knew of was that at the Southern Natural Gas plant in Reform--one month at a time on each shift.
Men in road service certainly do not have--and have not had--an easy life. I think of the passenger trainmen on the IC's Louisiana Division (McComb-New Orleans-Canton-McComb for three of the four trains, and McComb-Canton-New Orleans-McComb for the City back in the sixties: away from home 24 hours, 24 hours at home--and start all over).
Back when the Southern still had three trains a day between Bristol and Chattanooga, a conductor on the east end (Knoxville-Bristol) told me of his schedule back in '67, which had, as I recall, him working all three trains in rotation. I think it was something like this: Knoxville to Bristol on #42, lay over for a little over 24 hours and take #17 back down (I had him on a trip both ways after spending a night in Bristol); take #18 up and #45 down, take #46 up, and #41 down. Just how much time he had between trips, I do not remember. Incidentally, I had a round-trip ticket between Tuscaloosa and Black Mountain, N.C., and a round-trip ticket between Morristown and Bristol. When he boarded in Knoxville, he did not punch my coupon to Black Mountain; when I boarded in Bristol, I told him that I would be getting off in Morristown--and he told me to stay on to Knoxville, thus giving me another hour or so of sleep.
Johnny
It's been found that if you do have to rotate shifts, "forward" is the way to go.
So working a 12 hour, max HOS "shift" followed by a 10 hour rest would have you moving backwards.
Some years ago, when my uncle was a sheriff's deputy, I think they rotated monthly, and when they rotated, their days off moved forward a day, too.
I once interviewed for a job that rotated weekly. Fortunately, I didn't get it. When I did end up on rotating shifts, I almost think it was a six week rotation.
Our local paid fire department works a three on, three off schedule, with one "three on" being a 10 hour day shift, and the next being a 14 hour night shift, with one complete cycle being 12 days. Some fire departments have gone to a 48/72 schedule, many others just work a 24 on/24 off schedule with "Kelly days" to keep their hours under whatever their max is (it could be as high as 56 hours a week, depending on their contract).
Another uncle worked at a paper mill, and I can't remember him ever working anything but mids... Any time I saw him he looked tired...
So, there's lots of ways it can all go.
Larry, I had not thought about firefighters' hour. My grandson works for the Unified Fire Department (most of the county), and is away from home four days and then is home four days.
There are all kinds of schedules used to provide 24 hour coverage of jobs - NONE of them are perfect.
Recently, one of the organizations in my company decided reorganize their operation. Jobs were re-orged away from operating division lines of responsibility and thus continuity with operating division goals. Now jobs have responsibility for portions of 3 or 4 divisions. The jobs have been arranged so that the 'Relief' jobs all work one trick 1st - 2nd - 3rd; thus the holder of the Relief job must become qualified on 3 different positions for their work week rather than havin 'round the clock' qualification on a single position. Even with all this reorganization, there are still positions that have a Tag day - a day that must be filled from the Extra List. Extra List personnel must fill vacancies on all trick positions.
Every change in management brings 'new' ideas to staffing. (New ideas are really old ideas that new management didn't take the time in history to rediscover.) Those that fail to understand history are bound to repeat it. Been there, done that.
More interactive alerters are not the solution. The current ones are plenty annoying to go around.
One easy solution would be to relax the technology rules. Allow a radio or something along the lines of that and try to agree on a music choice. One of the hardest things to do is to sit there in the middle of the night loading a coal train at 0.23 mph after you have been up all day first out all day and was called for a extra job right as you were going to bed.
There's your problem right there. There is no issue when you're getting called back into work as soon as your rest period is over, that's actually much preferred because you're better rested and making more $$$. But when you sit at home 12-16 hours after your rest is up and then you're called into work that's when fatigue starts to set in.
daveklepper All these ideas are not mutually exclusive, and again, if I were an active engineer or conductor, and my partner in the locomotive cab was willing, I would at least do what I suggest in the last paragraph, have a continiual useful conversation.
When you have a partner whom you get along well with and can hold a conversation (on any topic, not just "usefull" railroad subjects. Except when required) the trips go better. I've gone to work tired (I can't sleep like my cat does, at the drop of a hat) but because of who I was working with never felt tired at all the entire trip.
Jeff
Those pursuing this topic further may wish to read my Journal of the Acoustical Society of America paper "Automobile entertainmet responsive to the interior environment," Vol 122. issue 5, pages 2499, 2500, November 2007.
CSSHEGEWISCHCommercial aviation has this problem, too. I remember from quite a few years ago, a crew fell asleep in the cockpit and it wasn't discovered until air traffic control noticed that the flight did not begin its approach to the airport.
Northwest Airlines?
There is currently a lot of informed speculation that the recent flydubai flight 981 crash may have had fatigue as a large contributing factor.
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