As a former Transportation Corps lieutenant who spent my years on active duty at Ft. Eustis, I'm very glad to learn that the US Army is retaining some rail capability. I thought they had totally done away with rail in the latest round of cuts. (I was with the "Railway Operating Detachment" for a while, but then I was moved to a truck company. I then did two year's reserve time with the 1157th Trans Co., part of the 757th, in Milwaukee.)
I was disappointed that their new document did not include anything about moving containers and trailers. Or the special terminal requirements for intermodal. I reason that's a lot of what would be moved from arrival ports.
Thanks for the lengthy reply, CMStPnP. You did reset my blood pressure a bit but that manual seemed to me to be saying this was the entire organization that would actually go abroad to work with HN railroads.
My first choice of branches on graduation was Transportation Corps (my second was Armor with Europe and Hawaii as assignment preferences --- any suprise that I wound up as a tanker in Korea? ). Even though I didn't get TC, I've always known about Eustis and kind of followed any stories about it.
The word "Center" in ERC should have been a clue that they were talking about Fort Eustis. I guess I'm too much old school and out of touch with the modern Army. I guess "Fort" doesn't sound warm and fuzzy enough for ... Ooops, almost got political.
Even with your explanation though, I still wonder at the wisdom of a single railway MOS. Nobody can possibly be expert enough in all aspects of railroading to be able to step into an engineer's job today, a dispatcher's job tomorrow, and RoW construction or mainenance the next day. And these people are expected to advise HN operating personnel? Maybe the HN people will let 'em make coffee every morning.
ChuckAllen, TX
caldreamerNo a TOE (table of equipment) and TOO (table of organization are not available to the general public.
"In my day" they were a single table (hence the & in TO&E). I don't recall if they were classified or not. If they were, I doubt it was above "Confidential" as they were frequently referenced in Orderly Rooms, Supply Rooms, Maintenance, etc. But I can see how the information therein would have been invaluable to an enemy, particularly a clandestine enemy.
cefinkjr samfp1943 Your tax dollars at work. Apparently, not very ****** well !! I didn't get very far into this manual before I blew my top. This Expeditionary Railway Center (ERC) (what desk jocky dreamed that one up?!) they're talking about would have a total authorized strength of 184 people. That's broken down as: The headquarters element consists of 14 Soldiers, including the ERC’s O-6 commander. The railway planning and advisory teams each consist of 34 Soldiers, including their O-5 commanders. Now I've been out of the service for a few years (few=50+) but I do remember pay grades, ranks, etc. The two sentences I quoted above mean that the ERC will be commanded by a full Colonel with an administrative staff of 13 and five Lieutenant Colonels who will each command 33 people. (For you Navy veterans, that's a Captain and five Commanders.) For comparison purposes, an Army or Marine Corps rifle company is about 200 people commanded by a Captain (O-3) with four Lieutenants (O-1 or O-2) who are, as I was informed when I was one, "learning to be officers". The current base pay (not including benefits) for less than 2 years to more than 18 years service is $6,267 to $9,848 for a full Colonel and $5,224 to $8,389 per month for a Lieutenant Colonel. You can bet the ranch that these people will be closer to 18 years service than 2; if you were in the service, how many people with these ranks did you know with less than about 15 years service? I didn't know any. So do the numbers. We (you and I) are going to be paying these six officers alone $313,440 to $696,720 per year to run an outfit that's little more than half the size of a rife company. That rifle company Captain and four Lieutenants, by the way, receive a maximum of $304,848. If there is a Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) available for the ERC, I'd love to see it. I'm betting that at least half the other ranks are junior officers (Majors and below) and the other half are senior NCOs. There probably is no formal TO&E yet for the ERC though; the Army may not be using them any more and they're typically not drawn up until the unit is about to be manned. I've only skimmed the rest of the manual so far but from what I've seen and what you said about combining the Army's railway MOSs into one, maybe the ranks I'm ranting about are justified. It sounds like they at least think they have a source of railroad supermen. Gotta back off. My blood pressure is going through the roof.
samfp1943 Your tax dollars at work.
Apparently, not very ****** well !!
I didn't get very far into this manual before I blew my top. This Expeditionary Railway Center (ERC) (what desk jocky dreamed that one up?!) they're talking about would have a total authorized strength of 184 people. That's broken down as:
The headquarters element consists of 14 Soldiers, including the ERC’s O-6 commander. The railway planning and advisory teams each consist of 34 Soldiers, including their O-5 commanders.
Now I've been out of the service for a few years (few=50+) but I do remember pay grades, ranks, etc. The two sentences I quoted above mean that the ERC will be commanded by a full Colonel with an administrative staff of 13 and five Lieutenant Colonels who will each command 33 people. (For you Navy veterans, that's a Captain and five Commanders.) For comparison purposes, an Army or Marine Corps rifle company is about 200 people commanded by a Captain (O-3) with four Lieutenants (O-1 or O-2) who are, as I was informed when I was one, "learning to be officers".
The current base pay (not including benefits) for less than 2 years to more than 18 years service is $6,267 to $9,848 for a full Colonel and $5,224 to $8,389 per month for a Lieutenant Colonel. You can bet the ranch that these people will be closer to 18 years service than 2; if you were in the service, how many people with these ranks did you know with less than about 15 years service? I didn't know any.
So do the numbers. We (you and I) are going to be paying these six officers alone $313,440 to $696,720 per year to run an outfit that's little more than half the size of a rife company. That rifle company Captain and four Lieutenants, by the way, receive a maximum of $304,848.
If there is a Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) available for the ERC, I'd love to see it. I'm betting that at least half the other ranks are junior officers (Majors and below) and the other half are senior NCOs. There probably is no formal TO&E yet for the ERC though; the Army may not be using them any more and they're typically not drawn up until the unit is about to be manned.
I've only skimmed the rest of the manual so far but from what I've seen and what you said about combining the Army's railway MOSs into one, maybe the ranks I'm ranting about are justified. It sounds like they at least think they have a source of railroad supermen.
Gotta back off. My blood pressure is going through the roof.
Well you can relax now....
Well it might not be apparent in the manual or internet articles but the Expeditionary Railway Center actually is the new name for the Railway Transportation Corps at Ft. Eustis, VA. They are reponsible for all the training and doctrine of the Army railway MOS'. Which I might add includes two Railway BN in addition to the center. And if you add in the support BN needed, amounts to half an Army Brigade of manpower. More that appropriate to be headed by an O-6 Full Bird Colonel. On top of that the Army has moved to a Modular Brigade Structure which again is where "Expeditionary" comes from. They no longer deploy at the Division level as they used to but rather Brigade or smaller level. So it is not unusual say for the 101st Airborne Division to have Infantry Bn in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and South Korea all at once and under different commands. It's smarter and cheaper to do things that way as they do not have to maintain as much overhead or as large a standing Army.
So net result is savings to the taxpayer. So potentially, I would have to go to the Ft. Eustis webpage to see what other units fall under this Expeditionary Railway unit to make it self sufficient to deploy at the Brigade level or less. I have no idea as I have not studied the new Organization nor asked about it.
Additionally and finally after almost 5 decades of waiting for it. The Army and Army Reserve / National Guard are going to start operating as one unit instead of three. They are starting to affliate both Army Reserve and National Guard units with Active Army units. So now when an Active Army unit deploys such as First Cav or Third Infantry Division, they will be taking their National Guard and Army Reserve affiliates with them. No more of the stay at home business that took place prior to the GWOT. It's going to be interesting how that plays out because communities are going to feel it more now when an Active Army unit deploys overseas as it's taking the weekend warriors with them now. When I was in the National Guard in the 1980's they tried doing that but the Army Generals would fight it tooth and nail. They tried it again with Operation Desert Storm but again Army Generals intervened and nixed the plan. Finally now with the troop cutbacks they feel they have to do it and finally the Army Generals are not fighting it. So in reality with a 450,000 Active duty Army Force plus NG and Reserve we are back up to almost 800,000 standing Army again. Throw in the Marines and we are close to or over a Million.
No longer is the National Guard or the Army Reserve unit a place of safety or a place to hide out and bide your time. Finally they will share the risk and mission with the Active Duty Force equally.
So a LOT has changed just within the last 10 years.
samfp1943 It might be that the current generations do not view 'railroads' to be as 'sexy' as some of the other endeavors such as cyber warfare, or armored engagements ( much of which is now taught by training with video games(?). Drone operations(?). It is still going to take individual effort; individual's with small arms, and their own sweat and blood to combat an enemy who is so inclined to fight for the same ground, to grind out 'victories'. Not nearly as 'sexy' as big engagement with expensive weaponry, but every bit as necessary. Transport of bullets and beans to areas of combat will always call for those that understand 'arcane' systems like railroad infrastructure to get there "fustest with the mostest" To sort of paraphrase Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest.
I read in TRAINS article from one of the Soldiers in one of the railway BN. Both Army Reserve Railway Bn deployed to Iraq and were instrumental in getting the Iraqi railways back up and running on a limited basis post 2003 invasion. So yes they are still used.
I retired from the Department of Defense worked a number of years in logistics computer operations and programming. No a TOE (table of equipment) and TOO (table of organization are not available to the general public. Seperatly they are not classified. BUT together they are classified SECRET. That information would give an adivsary knowledge of our equipment, strenght and capabilities. Any time we handled that information in hard copy form it was kept in the secure vault.
samfp1943Your tax dollars at work.
A good article about his experiences during WW II - might also be some stories in his others, too:
- Paul North.
"Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics." - attributed to many.
Interesting booklet. My very perfunctory review concludes that there's a lot of unnecessary material - too much on the operation of wrecking cranes is a good example - and some material that's very dated. A week or two on a decent-sized and busy shortline or regional railroad would probably be a better training experience.
Note: "HN" = "Host Nation" - took me awhile to figure out that.
(I was going to quote from the 1st paragraph, but somehow I fumbled it and it was destroyed. I'm so tired of that happening on this website, I'm not going to bother recreating it.)
I thought Afghanistan - around which experience this booklet is written - didn't have any railroads ? Well, apparently not much/ many until recently, and even then only about 50 miles and a 20 mile branch - but lots of plans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Afghanistan
http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/afghanistan/
CMStPnP Your tax dollars at work. Good primer though. They recently combined the Army railway MOS into one. So now one person will be trained on track maintenence and construction, locomotive and equipment maintenence and locomotive and equipment operation (the existing commercial railway labor unions would probably flip at that revolutionary idea of combining crafts). They are going to start teaming the railway MOS folks to go out into the field with Special Forces units...........which is an interesting new twist at nation building. Here is the manual link: http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp4_14.pdf Anyways, read a reference on the Illinois Railway Museum web page that the 757th Army Railway unit visited IRM recently from Ft. Eustis, VA. They did not specify why but perhaps for some training or familiarization? Not sure but it would be neat if Railway Museums could benefit from their labor.......while they train on equipment. Win-win situation. (Highlighted: samfp1943)
Your tax dollars at work. Good primer though. They recently combined the Army railway MOS into one. So now one person will be trained on track maintenence and construction, locomotive and equipment maintenence and locomotive and equipment operation (the existing commercial railway labor unions would probably flip at that revolutionary idea of combining crafts).
They are going to start teaming the railway MOS folks to go out into the field with Special Forces units...........which is an interesting new twist at nation building.
Here is the manual link:
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp4_14.pdf
Anyways, read a reference on the Illinois Railway Museum web page that the 757th Army Railway unit visited IRM recently from Ft. Eustis, VA. They did not specify why but perhaps for some training or familiarization? Not sure but it would be neat if Railway Museums could benefit from their labor.......while they train on equipment. Win-win situation.
(Highlighted: samfp1943)
With references tto the last paragraph: I recall reading an article a couple of years back about the Wiscassett,Waterville and Farmington Railroad Museum That had the good fortune to have an "Army Unit" ( Reserve or National Guard) that came to the museum and did some volunteer track work that was badly needed to help the museum track and bridge work(?).
The public tends to forget the work of the US Army's Railway Battalions performed during in most theaters of the WWII. And even their activities in WWI providing troop transport, and ammunition resupply at the 'Front'. As well as the work done on both sides of the Civil War to manintain, and disrupt the infant American Railnetwork.
It might be that the current generations do not view 'railroads' to be as 'sexy' as some of the other endeavors such as cyber warfare, or armored engagements ( much of which is now taught by training with video games(?). Drone operations(?). It is still going to take individual effort; individual's with small arms, and their own sweat and blood to combat an enemy who is so inclined to fight for the same ground, to grind out 'victories'. Not nearly as 'sexy' as big engagement with expensive weaponry, but every bit as necessary. Transport of bullets and beans to areas of combat will always call for those that understand 'arcane' systems like railroad infrastructure to get there "fustest with the mostest" To sort of paraphrase Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest.
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