I am sorry to read Mr. Schmidt's post on top. It seemed to me Angie and Steve were doing very nicely with their lighter touch. I, for one, have noticed no important flame wars of late. Is this a solution looking for a problem?
No, it is a troll who picks a fight, and when he gets his butt haned back to him, he whines to the mods about being picked on, even though he starts the fight in the first place.
Typical troll action.
23 17 46 11
The best thing to do with trolls is ignore them. I was insulted once for a response to a Forum topic but just blew it off.
With a gentle admonition to the insulter that not everyone's as tolerant as I am.
Firelock's Rule: You can question someone's opinion, but NEVER his intelligence or integrity.
dakotafred Is this a solution looking for a problem?
I would opine that Mr Schmidt's rationale is slightly flawed. Topics and subjects do not start flame wars. Intolerant narcissistic crybabies start flamewars with their incessant praddle about defending their turf. "Wah, you made my head hurt by discussing a topic which my personal insecurities see as controversial, RIGHT HERE IN MY E-LIVING ROOM"...etc.
Firelock76I was insulted once for a response to a Forum topic
There are a handful of regulars here who appear to believe their insults are warranted whenever they target someone they see as a "nere-do-well", And if that targeted individual dare swipe back, then THEY are branded as the "one who started the trouble" go figure.
We as a society have this tendency to attribute to a single cause, problems that in actuality are a product of many. It is from this that a majority of our controversies originate. You can quote me on this.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Gee, a "bad order" card for egos. I guess that's the "railroad" context for this thread.
LOL, which begs the question: do "real men" report threads to moderators?
Convicted One LOL, which begs the question: do "real men" report threads to moderators?
I do, but only when things get out of hand to the point that it is obstructing other, perhaps more productive discussions. The only 2 posts/threads I have ever reported were the Made In America and Conrail/Amtrak/Socialism threads over the past week, and I would note that new and productive discussions on some of the better content in those threads has since started, and in a polite manner, so people took the hint. Perhaps there is still antimosity between the warring parties and they have shifted to PM'ing each other, but at least I don't have to look at their ugly posts while reading Dave Klepper's responses about Israel's railways.
So in my limited experience here I think the reporting/moderating system works pretty well.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Firelock76Firelock's Rule: You can question someone's opinion, but NEVER his intelligence or integrity.
Alas, some folks seem to feel that if you question their opinion, you are questioning, nay - demeaning, their intelligence and/or integrity.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I think most of you above are missing the point.
Shouldn't we be able to expect the host of this forum to be a little more Olympian, to realize that boys will be boys and to be above the occasional cheap shots and especially the crybabies who go crying to Mama when they get an owie?
Let's take a step back and remember office politics. Mr. Schmidt sounds to me like someone who is watered because a new unwelcome duty has been dumped in his lap.
For his unhappiness not to be taken out on forum members -- and Trains subscribers! -- is my fondest, not unreasonable, wish.
In case nobody else has noticed, this forum has gotten slow and dull enough, all on its own, in recent months.
dakotafredMr. Schmidt sounds to me like someone who is watered because a new unwelcome duty has been dumped in his lap.
It's a shame that it has been dumped in anyone's lap. And we generally do get along just fine for long periods of time - most everyone has figured out everyone else and takes them for what they are worth to them.
Add one "new" person to the mix and suddenly all you-know-what breaks loose.
A bit of "wisdom" I once heard - if it seems like everyone around you is a problem, maybe they aren't the problem at all...
dakotafredLet's take a step back and remember office politics. Mr. Schmidt sounds to me like someone who is watered because a new unwelcome duty has been dumped in his lap.
Perhaps he has better things to do than babysit a lot of bitchy old men.
dakotafredShouldn't we be able to expect the host of this forum to be a little more Olympian, to realize that boys will be boys and to be above the occasional cheap shots and especially the crybabies who go crying to Mama when they get an owie?
No, not really. I'd guess that if it gets to be too much trouble, then we can most likely expect the host to pull the plug on the whole damned thing. It's pretty obvious that the forums are not a main focus of Kalmbach, and I doubt they want to devote much (any) time to it. It's not 2000 anymore - forums are pretty much dinosaurs. How many news-type sites even have them anymore?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I took it as a (not-so-gentle) reminder myself.
And yes, some topics seem to always cause issues. (Coming from a mod on another site, with much less traffic than this one.) Sometimes you need to have some ground rules that these topics will not be tolerated, even before they slip into being a problem.
(The site I am a mod on has the rule that any discussing of politics, religion, or nationality/race will be locked and deleted as soon as noticed by mods, regardless of if it has digressed into an issue or not. Warning is also issued to all on post. 3 warnings result in reviewed postings, two further warnings within 6 months result in temporary suspension of posting privileges. If the poster is the one who caused the issue, by making it one, via a post that attacks another post, or containing profanity, two warnings result in reviewed postings, one further warning results in temporary suspension.
Once reinstated, for any reason, all postings must be approved for the next 6 months. Any further infractions during this probation period results in deactivation of account privileges. Two suspensions also results in deactivation of privileges. And any of the common "don't let this person in because they dislike _____" results in immediate deactivation of account. YouTube has a huge problem with this right now, and it is not permitted at all on the site I am mod on. That issue is zero tolerance. As is personal attacks.)
So, while I do get the reminder, as a mod on another site, I also see why there is a slight issue with the way it was delivered.
So, as one mod elsewhere to the whole group, if he was not asked, and is seeing issues soon after being "volunteered" for the job, please try to be understanding.
And, as he reminded, so long as everyone minds their P's and Q's, no one will have issues.
That, is a true win-win. No hurt feelings, and, easy job for the mod.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
zugmann dakotafred Shouldn't we be able to expect the host of this forum to be a little more Olympian, to realize that boys will be boys and to be above the occasional cheap shots and especially the crybabies who go crying to Mama when they get an owie? No, not really. I'd guess that if it gets to be too much trouble, then we can most likely expect the host to pull the plug on the whole damned thing. It's pretty obvious that the forums are not a main focus of Kalmbach, and I doubt they want to devote much (any) time to it. It's not 2000 anymore - forums are pretty much dinosaurs. How many news-type sites even have them anymore?
dakotafred Shouldn't we be able to expect the host of this forum to be a little more Olympian, to realize that boys will be boys and to be above the occasional cheap shots and especially the crybabies who go crying to Mama when they get an owie?
Exactly. The forums are strictly a sideshow for Kalmbach; they are not about to have someone spending much time moderating. The stuff that occurred recently on the forum that precipitated Brian's actions should be obvious. Additionally I understand there were apparently numerous PMs to members that were "less than civil." Hopefully things will calm down, especially if the attempt at more blatant political messaging stops.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
That should be GRUMPY old men!
I may be old, but I ain't bitchy.
And concerning dakotafred's comment about the Forum getting dull and slow, I'm not so sure that's the case. I DO miss a lot of the folks who were frequent posters but who seem to have dropped out of sight, people like Henry 6, Overmod, Broadway Lion, Sir Madog, John WR, and Juniatha.
We really could have used Ms. J's input on that recent German train wreck.
Oh well, maybe they'll be back. Maybe they just got bored with it all.
Actually, considering how many more "Views" compared to "Replys" I see on the heading of the various topics I'm surprised there isn't more action here.
And politics? I know I've said it before, but I HATE politics. I pay attention to it because as a citizen it's my duty to do so and because a lot of good guys died from 1775 to the present so I'd have the chance to do so. Quite honestly concerning things like Amtrak and public transportation that have to be subsidized by government I don't see how you can keep the political angle out of it. Just be respectful about it. Remember Firelock's Rule.
zugmannNo, not really. I'd guess that if it gets to be too much trouble, then we can most likely expect the host to pull the plug on the whole damned thing. It's pretty obvious that the forums are not a main focus of Kalmbach, and I doubt they want to devote much (any) time to it.
+1. We may be on thinner ice than we want to think.
(Firelock, Broadway Lion and Sir Madog are alive and well on the MR forum. You can see what they are doing over there.)
Firelock76I DO miss a lot of the folks who were frequent posters but who seem to have dropped out of sight, people like Henry 6, Overmod, Broadway Lion, Sir Madog, John WR, and Juniatha.
I kinda suspect Wizlish may know what happened to Overmod.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
This letter is being sent to the owner/operators of this forum. It reads as follows.
To Whom It May Concern
Recently, I joined your website known as, Trains. My initial reasons for doing so were, I wanted to have access to your train cam. I also thought it might be nice to join the forums. Perhaps make new friends and talk about something I really love very much. After reading the forum rules, I decided to post a few responses to several members OP's. Once I was cleared to post a topic for discussion, I decided on one and went ahead and posted it. At first, everything appeared normal and the responses were polite and thoughtful. However, very few members appeared interested in one of my first OP's. So, I created another one. Which I titled, "Made In America". Now this OP was in no way, shape or form meant to be or become political, but it did after only a few responses. It was about this time, a member posted, what would become, one of many very negative attacks upon me. This member went so far as to call me a "Troll" and he consistently tried to infer that I was something or someone else. Before long, several other members joined in and started in with personal attacks against me. According to the forum rules, this activity was not permitted. At first, I tried defending myself and my topic for discussion. At some point during these conversations, the situation digressed to the point where it became impossible to control the OP. These members literally ganged up on me and took it upon themselves to serve as judge and jury with regards to my identity. At some point, I reported this to your sites controllers. However, nothing happened. The activity went on. So, I contacted one of your moderators. I messaged him regarding what was happening and he stated he would see what he could do. In the meantime, another member, made a very disparaging and rude comment about me. In this instance, I responded to that member by private messaging him. In that message, I asked for an apology for the things he said about me. He stated he would contact the moderators about what I stated.
At this point, I made the decision to try and ignore everything and try posting to other members threads. I came upon another members OP and started reading it. Once again, I was the subject of conversation and from the same exact members who started the trouble in my OP. I contacted the same moderator hoping for assistance, but what I got was more or less a company line response. I even offered to speak to him by phone because I thought if he would speak with me, he might just understand exactly what was really going on. However, is response was very rude. At this point, I decided to copy every single page of every single post made by everyone, including myself. The purpose of this is to document what I strongly believe was bullying. This is a subject I am very familiar with. It is where someone new, enters a forum with the intent of being a member and communicating about, whatever the topic of discussion happens to be. In most cases, new members are treated with some measure of respect. In my case, numerous members came together because of what one single member stated about me. He had no proof of his accusations, but never the less, many members rallied around his negative discourse about me. Nothing he stated was true. Yet, other members joined in and thus the "bullying" began.
Ganging up on someone, all because of what one member said about me. Even though, it was not true. Bullying is a serious crime in my home state. I take it very seriously when people resort to such behavior. The laws of my state are clear, concise and very effective in dealing with bullying on line. No company, organization or individual, whether public or private, has the right to bully anyone on line. No one is immune or invincible to the statutes/laws which cover bullying on line.
Enclosed, for your records, are all the pages containing everything that was stated. Including my responses. I also have included all private messages between myself, a member and one moderator. I have listed all screen names of those involved in this bullying. I posted this letter to your company on line. I want everyone to see everything that is going on. At this point, I will conclude my letter.
Bullying is a serious issue facing many people. Both on line and in a face to face world. I have a deep understanding of why it is important to recognize bullying right away and to stop it at its source. Especially before someone gets hurt. Several years ago, I lost a friend. He had issues and had sought professional help. He was on line in a forum, not unlike yours here at Trains. Several individuals started bullying him. Saying extremely terrible things about him. He was found the next day at his computer with a gunshot to his head. The site he was on was still active on the computer. Those responsible were found out and held accountable for his suicide. That site no longer exist and those responsible were later tried and convicted of bullying my friend to the point where he could no longer deal with it. The case was argued back in fourth for many months before a final verdict was read. Well, I am not suicidal. I can take allot of abuse, but there are people out there that join sites like yours because, they have no outlet. No place to go. So, like me, they come onto a site like yours and just communicate. Hoping to find some sense of their life and perhaps to just talk with others and make new friends. In conclusion, I take bullying, to whatever degree it is, very seriously. I should think after what I stated, you will begin the process of monitoring your site with a greater degree of discretion. Making sure that, what happened to me or God forbid, my friend, never ever happens here. A copy of this letter was forwarded to my attorney. I will no longer respond to anyone representing your company or its affiliates. My attorney will field all questions when he has made contact with your company. I sincerely hope that this matter will be taken very seriously and that those members responsible for this bullying understand that no matter where they are, they shall be held accountable.
Respectfully,
Jack Ryan
(Address withheld on line for security purposes)
^Bully!
BaltACD ^Bully!
NorthWest zugmann No, not really. I'd guess that if it gets to be too much trouble, then we can most likely expect the host to pull the plug on the whole damned thing. It's pretty obvious that the forums are not a main focus of Kalmbach, and I doubt they want to devote much (any) time to it. +1. We may be on thinner ice than we want to think.
zugmann No, not really. I'd guess that if it gets to be too much trouble, then we can most likely expect the host to pull the plug on the whole damned thing. It's pretty obvious that the forums are not a main focus of Kalmbach, and I doubt they want to devote much (any) time to it.
dakotafredAnother idea -- and an incentive, perhaps, to buy the magazine -- would be to restrict the forum to fare-paying passengers, like NewsWire.
I've been thinking that for some time. It would go a long way toward keeping the riff raff out.
Norm
I enjoy both the magazine and this forum but believe I spend a lot more time here than I do on the magazine, and I think there is much more detailed knowledge to be obtained here.
If had to choose between receiving the magazine and access to this forum, I'd take the later. Would I renew the subscription without the forum? Maybe not; I sort of look upon the subscription as in the same category of things as the (small) annual contributions I make to various rail museums, some of which I haven't visited in years.
Trainorders is "pay-to-play" and they have lots of folk willing to pay. They don't send you a magazine for that money either.
You might notice that several threads that had been locked have now been deleted. That would seem to be an indication that moderator Brian responsibly takes the situation seriously, with appropriate responses. This may be a consequence of the thinly veiled threat posted today.
Jack R. This letter is being sent to the owner/operators of this forum. It reads as follows. To Whom It May Concern Recently, I joined your website known as, Trains. My initial reasons for doing so were, I wanted to have access to your train cam. I also thought it might be nice to join the forums. Perhaps make new friends and talk about something I really love very much. After reading the forum rules, I decided to post a few responses to several members OP's. Once I was cleared to post a topic for discussion, I decided on one and went ahead and posted it. At first, everything appeared normal and the responses were polite and thoughtful. However, very few members appeared interested in one of my first OP's. So, I created another one. Which I titled, "Made In America". Now this OP was in no way, shape or form meant to be or become political, but it did after only a few responses. It was about this time, a member posted, what would become, one of many very negative attacks upon me. This member went so far as to call me a "Troll" and he consistently tried to infer that I was something or someone else. Before long, several other members joined in and started in with personal attacks against me. According to the forum rules, this activity was not permitted. At first, I tried defending myself and my topic for discussion. At some point during these conversations, the situation digressed to the point where it became impossible to control the OP. These members literally ganged up on me and took it upon themselves to serve as judge and jury with regards to my identity. At some point, I reported this to your sites controllers. However, nothing happened. The activity went on. So, I contacted one of your moderators. I messaged him regarding what was happening and he stated he would see what he could do. In the meantime, another member, made a very disparaging and rude comment about me. In this instance, I responded to that member by private messaging him. In that message, I asked for an apology for the things he said about me. He stated he would contact the moderators about what I stated. At this point, I made the decision to try and ignore everything and try posting to other members threads. I came upon another members OP and started reading it. Once again, I was the subject of conversation and from the same exact members who started the trouble in my OP. I contacted the same moderator hoping for assistance, but what I got was more or less a company line response. I even offered to speak to him by phone because I thought if he would speak with me, he might just understand exactly what was really going on. However, is response was very rude. At this point, I decided to copy every single page of every single post made by everyone, including myself. The purpose of this is to document what I strongly believe was bullying. This is a subject I am very familiar with. It is where someone new, enters a forum with the intent of being a member and communicating about, whatever the topic of discussion happens to be. In most cases, new members are treated with some measure of respect. In my case, numerous members came together because of what one single member stated about me. He had no proof of his accusations, but never the less, many members rallied around his negative discourse about me. Nothing he stated was true. Yet, other members joined in and thus the "bullying" began. Ganging up on someone, all because of what one member said about me. Even though, it was not true. Bullying is a serious crime in my home state. I take it very seriously when people resort to such behavior. The laws of my state are clear, concise and very effective in dealing with bullying on line. No company, organization or individual, whether public or private, has the right to bully anyone on line. No one is immune or invincible to the statutes/laws which cover bullying on line. Enclosed, for your records, are all the pages containing everything that was stated. Including my responses. I also have included all private messages between myself, a member and one moderator. I have listed all screen names of those involved in this bullying. I posted this letter to your company on line. I want everyone to see everything that is going on. At this point, I will conclude my letter. Bullying is a serious issue facing many people. Both on line and in a face to face world. I have a deep understanding of why it is important to recognize bullying right away and to stop it at its source. Especially before someone gets hurt. Several years ago, I lost a friend. He had issues and had sought professional help. He was on line in a forum, not unlike yours here at Trains. Several individuals started bullying him. Saying extremely terrible things about him. He was found the next day at his computer with a gunshot to his head. The site he was on was still active on the computer. Those responsible were found out and held accountable for his suicide. That site no longer exist and those responsible were later tried and convicted of bullying my friend to the point where he could no longer deal with it. The case was argued back in fourth for many months before a final verdict was read. Well, I am not suicidal. I can take allot of abuse, but there are people out there that join sites like yours because, they have no outlet. No place to go. So, like me, they come onto a site like yours and just communicate. Hoping to find some sense of their life and perhaps to just talk with others and make new friends. In conclusion, I take bullying, to whatever degree it is, very seriously. I should think after what I stated, you will begin the process of monitoring your site with a greater degree of discretion. Making sure that, what happened to me or God forbid, my friend, never ever happens here. A copy of this letter was forwarded to my attorney. I will no longer respond to anyone representing your company or its affiliates. My attorney will field all questions when he has made contact with your company. I sincerely hope that this matter will be taken very seriously and that those members responsible for this bullying understand that no matter where they are, they shall be held accountable. Respectfully, Jack Ryan (Address withheld on line for security purposes)
What a waste of 0s and 1s.
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