QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C QUOTE: Originally posted by AlcoRS11Nut Nice on the 4th star....but here is my question.....what is the diameter of a piston (or cylinder) of a EMD H-series prime-mover? The reason I asked this odd question is that my cousin and I were talking the other day and he said that it was a foot across. I don't know that just seems kinda large to me, even the H series. Is he right or it is bigger/smaller? This is one of the really easy ones! EMD changed their method of engine classification, because (I think) the new H engine was more than 1000 cubic inches per cylinder, and would require a four digit number rather than a three digit number. So the decision was made to describe four stroke engines by their diameter in millimetres, in the H engine case it is "265H", about 10.43 inches. The engine STROKE is close to one foot, however. The small four stroke engine built by Caterpillar is described as a "GM170" when fitted in a GP15D, for example. While on the subject of Cat, their next size engine, the 3600, used in the now modified MK5000, was 270mm cylinder diameter. So you had a step of 100mm cylinder diameter between engine models! The MK5000 units now use EMD 645F engines. Peter
QUOTE: Originally posted by AlcoRS11Nut Nice on the 4th star....but here is my question.....what is the diameter of a piston (or cylinder) of a EMD H-series prime-mover? The reason I asked this odd question is that my cousin and I were talking the other day and he said that it was a foot across. I don't know that just seems kinda large to me, even the H series. Is he right or it is bigger/smaller?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Randy- You want the burn rate by notch? Should be almost exactly that of a GP40-2 in freight mode, which I can get you, if that's what you need.... That will work !!!! Randy
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Randy- You want the burn rate by notch? Should be almost exactly that of a GP40-2 in freight mode, which I can get you, if that's what you need....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Randy- You want the burn rate by notch? Should be almost exactly that of a GP40-2 in freight mode, which I can get you, if that's what you need.... That will work !!!! Randy But not if it is supplying HEP power to a passenger train, as outlined in my comments above, because the engine will be running at a constant 900 rpm even at idle, and will have a load of a couple of hundred kW on top of any "locomotive" functions. Peter
QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH There are also some marine diesels that are even larger than the De La Vergne.
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by jockellis I used to rent an apartment from a retired road foreman of engines in Waycross, GA who had kept the owners manual from a U-25 he had once operated. I hope you can help me but it said something about the electric motor running in different modes and in my memory they were series, series shunt, series-parallel and parallel shunt (or something like that) . Could you refresh my memory and tell me what all that mumbo jumbo means? Jock Ellis It's the way GE kept the locomotive's performance on the 2500 HP curve throughout it's speed range. They had to do it because of current and voltage limitations of the main generator and traction motors. In parallel, all 4 traction motors are connected to the main generator in parallel. As you go slower, the voltage goes down and the current goes up. Soon, it is too high for the main generator, so you reconnect the motors. You connect each pair of motors in series and then the two series pair in parallel to the main generator. This doubles the voltage but halves the current from straight parallel. The shunting comes into play at the high voltage/high speed end. You weaken the field by shunting some of the field windings in the traction motor so that the voltage goes down and the current goes up a bit. This allows the locomotive to continue to produce full HP at high speeds. Now, with traction alternators instead of generators and good, high voltage diodes to make DC from the AC, plus the advent of generator transition, a 4400 HP DC locomotive has no motor transition nor field shunting. Since the manual refers to three connections, These would be: series = four motors in series series parallel = two groups of two motors in series parallel = all four motors in parallel (each taking full voltage) These are "series-wound" motors, so all the armature current also passes through the field windings, generating a magnetic field (sometimes called "flux"). The motor speed is dependent on the voltage and the magnetic field. You can go faster by making the voltage higher, or the magnetic field smaller. The "resistance" of the motor to the current is the "back EMF" generated by the magnetic field. So when you can't raise the voltage to increase the speed, you can reduce the magnetic field by providing a "shunt" or diversion, that allows part of the current to bypass the field windings (and not generate "Back EMF") but still flow through the armature. The field shunting or diversion, can be applied independent of the actual connection of the motors in series or parallel, but this will be determined by the control system which makes the connections. It might actually be more complicated than it sounds. I understand early U boats also had sixteen throttle notches, too, but only eight were used if in multiple with an Alco or EMD! Peter
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by jockellis I used to rent an apartment from a retired road foreman of engines in Waycross, GA who had kept the owners manual from a U-25 he had once operated. I hope you can help me but it said something about the electric motor running in different modes and in my memory they were series, series shunt, series-parallel and parallel shunt (or something like that) . Could you refresh my memory and tell me what all that mumbo jumbo means? Jock Ellis It's the way GE kept the locomotive's performance on the 2500 HP curve throughout it's speed range. They had to do it because of current and voltage limitations of the main generator and traction motors. In parallel, all 4 traction motors are connected to the main generator in parallel. As you go slower, the voltage goes down and the current goes up. Soon, it is too high for the main generator, so you reconnect the motors. You connect each pair of motors in series and then the two series pair in parallel to the main generator. This doubles the voltage but halves the current from straight parallel. The shunting comes into play at the high voltage/high speed end. You weaken the field by shunting some of the field windings in the traction motor so that the voltage goes down and the current goes up a bit. This allows the locomotive to continue to produce full HP at high speeds. Now, with traction alternators instead of generators and good, high voltage diodes to make DC from the AC, plus the advent of generator transition, a 4400 HP DC locomotive has no motor transition nor field shunting.
QUOTE: Originally posted by jockellis I used to rent an apartment from a retired road foreman of engines in Waycross, GA who had kept the owners manual from a U-25 he had once operated. I hope you can help me but it said something about the electric motor running in different modes and in my memory they were series, series shunt, series-parallel and parallel shunt (or something like that) . Could you refresh my memory and tell me what all that mumbo jumbo means? Jock Ellis
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH There are also some marine diesels that are even larger than the De La Vergne. One of the great understatements of the year. Consider the Mitsui-MAN-B&W 10K98MC, which from its designation shows it has a 980-mm piston diameter. If big numbers are impressive, I think a piston diameter of a yard beats piston diameter of a foot... We have had previous threads on these, with some interesting links to pictures. I would note that information on this general class of engines can be obtained here: http://www.manbw.com/category_000284.html
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Randy- You want the burn rate by notch? Should be almost exactly that of a GP40-2 in freight mode, which I can get you, if that's what you need.... That will work !!!! Randy Fuel in gals/hr by notch for GP40-2, E3 engine, AAR std conditions N8 168.3 N7 141.2 N6 105.7 N5 79.4 N4 56.2 N3 38.1 N2 23.1 N1 8.6 idle (315 RPM) 5.0 Low idle (255 RPM) 4.0 DB4 14.5 Sorry it took me so long to get to this....
QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH If you want huge, consider the Baldwin De La Vergne engine. Bore was 12 3/4 inches and stroke was 15 3/4 inches. Maximum speed was 625 RPM. The 567 is 8 1/2 inches by 10 inches, 645 is 9 1/16 inches by 10 inches, 710 is 9 1/16 inches by 11 inches, and 244, 251 and FDL are 9 inches by 10 1/2 inches. There are also some marine diesels that are even larger than the De La Vergne.
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