The Big Hook

[Big_Boy_4005]

I was at a friend's house this evening, and he had this very cool model of a heavy rail crane. It was made by Lionel and was fully functional, operating with 4 small motors. It rotated , you could raise and lower the boom, raise and lower a big and a small hook, extend outriggers, and turn on and off front and rear work lights, all by remote control.

Now the prototype question. Do railroads still use this type of large crane, or do they just bring in rubber tired cranes?

[Anonymous]

Most of the wrecking being done today is by contract outfits such as Hulcher. The heavy lifting is done by side-boom Caterpillar Tractors adapted from pipeline laying duties.

There may still be some railroad derrick outfits left around - I'm sure that forum readers can provide examples - but not many.

Hulcher came into prominence about 1970, so it has been a while since the railroads did their own wrecking work.

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

Yes, railroads still use "big hooks" although they are usually no longer steam powered.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=14103&password=&sort=1&cat=all&page=1

[GMS-AU]

I have seen picture in the rail pictures forum of a crane that BNSF use. Its a Freightliner 8x4 truck with highrail wheels so it can do both. The jib looked to have a 150 ton rating which is very impressive for the size crane it is. It can drive to the derailment site and then jump on the rails to get to the site if need be and has connections so it can tow wagons if needed. A very verstitile machine all round and only needs a driver and maybe a dogman to crew it.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks guys, that was quick.

Alexander, I have seen lot's of that smaller type of crane. Those are fairly common for general MOW tasks. I was really talking about the BIG ones, like this.[:)]

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=83807

[ericsp]

I just saw one in Kingsburg, CA on Wednesday. I could not get a good look at it, however I think it was SPMW 8002. There were some ballast hoppers with and I have seen several dozen flatcars carrying concrete ties and panel track lately. I am guessing they are getting ready for much track work and the crane will be part of it.

They are doing a maintenance blitz at Goshen, CA. a few years ago and SPMW 8002 was there.

[Paul3]

I have a pic or two of a "big hook" being used during the re-construction and electrification of the NEC east of New Haven. It was in Mansfield about 5 years ago, and they were installing new pre-made concrete-tie switches off of flats and gons.

The big hook in question was yellow (cab) and black (frame), and very European looking. It had 6 axels. I don't know who owned it, and I've never seen it since.

Amtrak currently owns at least one old American crane of the small hook variety. It has a latice-work boom, and only one hook. It has 4 axels, and is used for track maintanence here on the NEC.

The New Haven still had three large (230 ton) steam derricks (D-100 class)when they were absorbed by Penn Central. I don't know how long they lasted after that.

Oh, and about 10 years ago, Conrail put one on the ground in Mansfield, and both an MBTA and a Conrail Hi-rail crane showed up to lift a loaded bulkhead flat.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

BigBoy:

The same company, Rich Franklin Inc, also has a "big hook", but I can't find a photo online.... It is generally leased out for bridge repair.

[GMS-AU]

QUOTE: Originally posted by abcraghead

Yes, railroads still use "big hooks" although they are usually no longer steam powered.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=14103&password=&sort=1&cat=all&page=1

Just a quick note, looking at the picture in the link it looks like the jib is in fact a conveyor belt. This unit may not be a crane but a conveyor for spreading ballast or fill material.

[GMS-AU]

I found a link to the picture I was talking about. It's called a mantis, and I would say that is the future of rail cranes. Hydraulics are a marvelous invention.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=3752&sort=1&cat=576&page=11

[Modelcar]

....All the pic's. of the various moble cranes posted are interesting but it's hard to understand any of those can do the work of the super heavy and mammoth units we all have seen or heard of from back in the steam days....They were huge in size and weight with outriggers and massive structured booms and of course steam powered.
It must be rare that any of these are still in operating condition and rare as well that many know how to operate them. I wonder if any of the later ones {steam}, were converted over to diesel power of some kind....
Thinking back of the steam monsters...didn't they have vertical steam boilers....
Some must have been rated up in the hundreds of tons...Remember seeing pic's of a setup and outriggers supported with massive cribbing as it was on site doing a recovery job....I have seen some at a site but don't remember the details very well.

[Randy Stahl]

We have a big hook, I think it's a 150 ton brownhoist. Way up here in northern Maine it's much too far for Hulcher to travel. I'm waiting for someone to show me how to run it. I'm told we have two of them but only one runs. The big hook just got back from a job in Vermont re railing a spreader, on the way back a draw bar broke.
Randy

[Anonymous]

The UP in Roseville had an entire wreck train at the ready with a 250 ton crane ( it was even still in the SP Daylight colors) for years but I'm not sure if it's still there. They also had a Kershaw 4 axle hy-rail hydralic big hook at the car dept. Also there was a contractor called Dobbas at the west end of the yard.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Wow guys, I never expected this much response to this little question. Here is a photo of the model that prompted it.



In his response, Old Timer mentioned side boom cats. Those I have seen recently!! Last spring, I captured this pair which were used to lift 4 prefabed switches into place.



Here is a shot of a fairly light railroad crane. This one was being used to replace grade crossings on UP's Altoona sub in western Wisconsin.



Railroad cranes come in all sizes. Clearly some of the really big ones are still out there working, though their numbers have dwindled since the days of steam.

[Modelcar]

....All kinds of photos of steam cranes over in Google....Even some with booms on both ends...called Tunnel Cranes.

[DPD1]

Yep, they are definitely still out there... I saw the old SP one in daylight scheme not long ago in Mojave. I was going to upload a pic, but I guess you can't do that on this board. The EJ&E has more then one crane.

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[Anonymous]

The SP one in roseville is SPMW 7070 and was painted into daylight in the late 70's early 80's, it is still steam and is oil fired. CSRM now has, SP donated it to them in 1996 and is still used every now and then. Its a 250ton bucyrus i beleive.

Then theres SPMW 7020 which is a 130 ton Bucyrus, still steam and is in oregon. Still used for display and operated now and then.
There is also SPMW 7113 which is now in roseville and uses 7070's tender, it is deisel but they still use it. last time i now of was in 1994 on donner pass when 4840 hit a drift and derailed.

[BaltACD]

For the most part todays railroads utilize off track independent contractors such as Hulcher for derailment clearance.

The response time for these contractors to the scene of the derailment is quicker than a wreck train with the 'Big Hook'. The utility around the derailment scene of the D-* and D-9 Cats with A frames exceeds anything the BigHooks were able to accomplish outside of sheer brute power.

When using the Big Hook, once the hook was on scene it would take a ground crew of 4 or more men to block the outriggers in place for each lift that was being attempted...a 20 to 30 minute chore for each lift....and there are many, many lifts required. A general rule of thumb that was applied to most derailments where the Hook was involved was is would be 24 hours after the hooks arrival before the scene would be ready to have track panels laid, hook arrival was generally 8 hours or more after the report of the derailment was received. 12 hours after the start of panel laying commenced you would be able to run trains at 10 MPH. All in all, any significant derailment was a 48 hour outage on the line involved.....to the railroads time is money.

With off track equipment the rule of thumb is that traffic will be moving through the derailment site in 24 hours.

The rule of thumb is a broad generalization....each derailment is unique and presents its own problems and challenges to the on scene personnel to overcome.

[Anonymous]

Well the wreck crane I saw was in 2000 at the Roseville yard while I was still working there

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drailed1999

Well the wreck crane I saw was in 2000 at the Roseville yard while I was still working there

Here are some pictures of SPMW equipment
http://espee.railfan.net/spmw_index.html?
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/spmw/index.htm