Mass Shooting Near Railroad …
… Track in San Bernardino, CA
The TV (shown below, KABC Channel 7) is reporting 12 are dead by a mass shooting in a medical center in San Bernardino, CA, the site of which is out of view below on the upper right. The site is near Metrolink’s ex-Santa Fe (AT&SF) Redland Loop. The street is South Waterman Ave., with the Redlands Loop line in view. The whole area is jam packed with law enforcement.
K.P. knows someone who knows someone personally that is INSIDE the San Bernardino police station. They called that known person and said 14 were killed in the shooting.
The rail line is between San Bernardino and Redlands, and projections are to rebuild the line to eventually run RDC type trains on it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
I could be wrong, but with three gunmen it strikes me as a domestic terror incident, assuming the initial reports are correct.
Or gang-related. Who knows at this point?
Firelock76 I could be wrong, but with three gunmen it strikes me as a domestic terror incident, assuming the initial reports are correct. Or gang-related. Who knows at this point?
Should 'gangs' now be treated as urban terrorist organizations and pursued as such?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Firelock76 I could be wrong, but with three gunmen it strikes me as a domestic terror incident, assuming the initial reports are correct. Or gang-related. Who knows at this point? Should 'gangs' now be treated as urban terrorist organizations and pursued as such?
Whether the perps are gangs, terrorists or the mentally disturbed, as long as guns are as easy to get hold of as a Coke, these tragedies will go on and on and on.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I'm of the opinion that this was a targetted attack. The assailants entered the building, went to a specific location, and did their deed, then left.
Had this been a more general attack, three gunman probably would have done a lot more damage.
The group which suffered the casualties reportedly was not from that building - they were just holding a Christmas party there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
schlimm Whether the perps are gangs, terrorists or the mentally disturbed, as long as guns are as easy to get hold of as a Coke, these tragedies will go on and on and on.
Try and get long term psychotherapy or behavior therapy for a family member....once your private insurance runs out, your have to impoverish yourself to qualify for any type of federal or state aid, then good luck with getting any type of quality treatment.
Trust me, if they can't get a gun, they will use Molotov cocktails, or kitchen knives, or baseball bats, or their automobile.
Gonna make all those "illegal" also and "solve" the problem?
The issue isn't the tool used, but the motivation and delusional reasoning behind the action...come on, your the self proclaimed super shrink here, you should already know that!
I have been licensed to carry a weapon for over 30 years, I walked into a gun store, paid cash for my side arm, a holster, and a box of ammo, and in that 30 plus years my gun has never managed to commit a crime
23 17 46 11
Scary situation and a heart breaking site for such an attack.
Looks like Euclid got it at least partly right, this is not a typical mass shooting and does look very pre-planned and targeted. Not sure about possible motives, figure any of my guesses now will probably go wild of the mark when more information comes out.
Obviously one of the uninformed about legal gun purchases. Coming from a man of your educational stature, I expected better. OTOH, the black market has no such restrictions.
Norm
At the risk of making this thread about TRAINS, While watching this in progress on TV I saw a fire truck parked across the track.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Exactly Ed,
I bought my first gun in 1973 and the only thing it has killed is a paper target in front of mound of sand. Since it's kept locked it hasn't been able to sneek out on its own it reek havoc on the innocent.
Bob
Phoebe Vet At the risk of making this thread about TRAINS, While watching this in progress on TV I saw a fire truck parked across the track.
A couple years ago, Detroit Fire Department learned no to do that. Scratch one expensive ladder truck. Amtrak couldn't stop in time.
edblysard schlimm Whether the perps are gangs, terrorists or the mentally disturbed, as long as guns are as easy to get hold of as a Coke, these tragedies will go on and on and on. Well, we have all seen how great making coke illegal has worked...sorta like prohibition and making alcohol illegal did. Great way to create an major profitable enterprise for organized criminals. Oh, wait, wasn't there this group of guys around Chicago that tried that? The real issue might not be the guns, or the drugs and booze, but the way we as a society deal with the chronic mental health issue here. Try and get long term psychotherapy or behavior therapy for a family member....once your private insurance runs out, your have to impoverish yourself to qualify for any type of federal or state aid, then good luck with getting any type of quality treatment. Trust me, if they can't get a gun, they will use Molotov cocktails, or kitchen knives, or baseball bats, or their automobile. Gonna make all those "illegal" also and "solve" the problem? The issue isn't the tool used, but the motivation and delusional reasoning behind the action...come on, your the self proclaimed super shrink here, you should already know that! I have been licensed to carry a weapon for over 30 years, I walked into a gun store, paid cash for my side arm, a holster, and a box of ammo, and in that 30 plus years my gun has never managed to commit a crime
Is it ever possible to read carefully? Did I say anything about laws? Many/most of the long series of mass killings were done by folks who purchased guns legally. And yes, mental health laws should be tightened and enforced. Perhaps all folks who wish to purchase weapons should be required to have a thorough pyschiatric/psychological exam.
As pointed out in the DD&CS/C'Box ...the BNSF dispatchers for SoCal were less than 3/4 mile to the SW from the incident (Carnegie Dr @ Hospitality Dr). I'm sure that if in the unlikely case there was a switch engine out on the branch, they were shut down mui pronto and most of the activity in "A" yard (also not far away at the bottom of Cajon Pass) was operated in a very guarded manner.
The BNSF railway police were certainly involved, probably protecting the railroad assets to either side of the incident.
http://graphics.latimes.com/san-bernardino-shooting/#nt=outfit
The shooters were a man and his wife, both Muslims, although the motive sounds like work-related personal revenge ("going postal"). At least two of the four weapons were purchased legally.
edblysard There is a YouTube vid of that....and the firemen seemed startled there was a train using the train tracks....
There is a YouTube vid of that....and the firemen seemed startled there was a train using the train tracks....
Euclid It may have been a form of personal revenge, but authorities are considering that it was terrorism based on jihad and the question of whether the shooters were influenced to act or trained with that motive.
schlimmHowever, since the man was an employee of the agency holding the party and had gotten into an argument there with others, it seems likely it was personal (likely a mental illness involvement) and had nothing to do with political terrorism...
I would opine that terrorism, as we commonly think of it, had nothing to do with the incident. OTOH, it was reported as being a Christmas/holiday party, and the difference in the beliefs of the partygoers and the assailants may well have been a factor.
We'll have to wait until the final story comes out.
Whether it's a gun issue or a religious issue, it's not going to end well.
Euclid The level of the shooters' preparedness indicates to me that this was highly unlikely to be a case of personal workplace violence. Workplace violence typically is rather rash and spontaneous. It does not involve the massing of guns, ammo, pipe bombs, bomb-making materials and information, bullet proof vests, and assault style garb.
Then why did the shooter go to the party first, argue with unnamed person(s) and then return and murder? If he and his wife had a pre-arranged plan, he likely would not have gone there and argued in advance. He might have gone there to "case out" the place in advance but would not have made an emotional scene, lest that tip off potential victims or get the police called in and spoil his "plan."
schlimm Euclid Then why did the shooter go to the party first, argue with unnamed person(s) and then return and murder? If he and his wife had a pre-arranged plan, he likely would not have gone there and argued in advance. He might have gone there to "case out" the place in advance but would not have made an emotional scene, lest that tip off potential victims or get the police called in and spoil his "plan."
Euclid
Unfortunately, we have yet to perfect the means to interrogate the minds of the dead for their actual motives and intentions.
schlimmThen why did the shooter go to the party first, argue with unnamed person(s) and then return and murder?
As Balt said, "We can't read the minds of the dead". But his motive to visit first may have been to make certain a particular individual against whom he may have had a grudge was there so he could get the redress he thought was necessary.
The news reports are saying the perp's home was an arsenal and IED bomb factory. That sort of precludes the simple explanation of a disgruntled employee seeking revenge for a perceived wrong.
schlimm Euclid The level of the shooters' preparedness indicates to me that this was highly unlikely to be a case of personal workplace violence. Workplace violence typically is rather rash and spontaneous. It does not involve the massing of guns, ammo, pipe bombs, bomb-making materials and information, bullet proof vests, and assault style garb. Then why did the shooter go to the party first, argue with unnamed person(s) and then return and murder? If he and his wife had a pre-arranged plan, he likely would not have gone there and argued in advance. He might have gone there to "case out" the place in advance but would not have made an emotional scene, lest that tip off potential victims or get the police called in and spoil his "plan."
ChessieCat123 Arming and training teachers and those in the education system would make someone think twice before pulling off this BS.
Arming and training teachers and those in the education system would make someone think twice before pulling off this BS.
And how you reply to those teachers who do not wish to carry deadly force in the classroom since it could make a bad situation worse?
Will they still beable to operate the line through there?
Euclid schlimm Euclid The level of the shooters' preparedness indicates to me that this was highly unlikely to be a case of personal workplace violence. Workplace violence typically is rather rash and spontaneous. It does not involve the massing of guns, ammo, pipe bombs, bomb-making materials and information, bullet proof vests, and assault style garb. Then why did the shooter go to the party first, argue with unnamed person(s) and then return and murder? If he and his wife had a pre-arranged plan, he likely would not have gone there and argued in advance. He might have gone there to "case out" the place in advance but would not have made an emotional scene, lest that tip off potential victims or get the police called in and spoil his "plan." Although it was reported that the shooter went to the party and argued with someone, we cannot conclude that that means he simply got into an argument with one person, and that the whole conflict began there because of that argument. The attack may have been planned prior to the argument, and the argument set it off; or the attack may have been intended to be carried out regardless of the argument. The argument may have just been an unplanned facet of the overall unfolding of the conflict.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.