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Towner Railroad: status/future?

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Posted by Falcon48 on Saturday, November 21, 2015 11:51 PM

I don't want to get into a debate about A&K (sometimes considered the "Darth Vader" of the short line industry).  But I was pretty heavily involved in the Towner Line abandonment and ultimate line sale in the 1990's, so let me make a few observations.

The Towner line used to be part of a main line of the MP between Pueblo, Kansas City and points east.  It was also the major eastern connection of the DRG&W (at Pueblo).  Because of the importance of the Pueblo conection to DRG&W, the latter road got trackage rights over the Pueblo-KC line in the UP-MP merger.  Once DRG&W and SP became part of the same family (following the abortive ATSF-SP merger), the "new" SP used the DRG&W trackage rights east of Pueblo (including rights over the Towner line) to cobble together a "central corridor" transcontinental route (including the Tennessee Pass line west of Pueblo) which had higher costs and poorer service than any of the competing transcontinental routes - not a winning combination.

UP proposed to abandon the Towner line as part of the UP-SP merger.   The combined UP-SP system would obviously have superior routes to handle the transcontinental traffic SP had been handling over the line, and the on-line traffic was miniscule.  The STB approved the abandonment as part of the UP-SP merger (Docket No. AB-3, Sub-No-130).

At this point the story gets interesting.  The various communities served by the Towner line sought to preserve the line.  From my  perspective, their motivation seemed to have more to do with preserving real estate tax revenue than preserving rail service.  Be that as it may, the state ended up purchasing the line from UP for Net Liquidation Value (the scrap/sale value of the line's assets less disposition costs), on the theory that, if the line proved to be non-viable (as it proved to be), the state could recover the value it had paid.  I think it fair to say that neither the railroad nor the state expected that the deal would be successful in preserving rail service. That expectation proved to be accurate, as the road was never able to generate enough traffic to be viable.  The state ultimately sold the road to recover its investment.  Given this history, it is hardly surprising that the line ended up being proposed for abandonment - the wonder is that it lasted as long as it did.  A railroad needs traffic to stay in business. Without the overhead traffic, there was precious little business to sustain this line  From an economic standpoint, it should have been torn up in the late 1990's.  And, but for Colorado state political considerations, it would have been.     

   

 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, November 19, 2015 4:38 AM

Someplace in Trains way back when was a itttle story or photo caption like "Incident at Nepesta Curve" - might have been the FM publicity photo series, or a frontispiece-type photo and caption.

Bingo !

"Incident at Nepesta curve - a slow order not canceled"

by Robbins, Ralph M., from Trains, September 1969, pg. 43.
(keywords: anecdote atsf  speed )

- Paul Nortth. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by JOHN MEHRLING on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 6:16 PM

Thank you.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 4:51 PM

Deggesty
tree68
doghouse

I doubt MC would be willing to post that here.  If you do a search on "a&k railroad colorado problems" you'll find a few links that might give you an idea of what's going on.  Hint:  at least one link included the word "vultures."

From what I have seen, these people are vultures; vultures (the bird kind) look for dead or almost dead animals and if the animal is not quite dead will attack it so as to hasten its death.

May they be absolutely foiled in this instance.

My understanding is that A&K and their dealings gives vultures a good name in comparison.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by diningcar on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 10:07 AM

MC, Nepesta (NA) is what some old timers used, and I may have known some of them. Now I are one!!

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 8:11 AM

JOHN MEHRLING

Between Fower and Boone there is a junction - which line is that coming in from the southeast?  It looks like there were 2 roadbeds west of there?  Can anyone give a little history of those lines?

Thank you.

 

Between Fowler & Boone ....The junction is NA Junction (North Avondale Junction or NepestA, heard both as explanations of the name) and it was, until 1974, the crossing of the MoP and the ATSF. The two railroads ran as a braided pair the rest of the way into Pueblo. The MoP was the latecomer by about 13-14 years in 1888. The Towner line is the old MoP. After 1974, there has been a single track joint line built out of pieces of both railroads. When the line consolidation happened, there was no clue that the Powder River coal boom was about to happen. By the 1960's, both railroads realized they had excess plant there.

 

EDIT: For the record, ATSF  built into Pueblo from the east in February 1876....MoPac built into Pueblo in December 1887 and was officially in operation on 1/1/1888....There was almost a third railroad in the 26 mile stretch between Pueblo and NA Junction in 1906 [Headed to Burlington on the Rock Island out on the KS border], the Colorado & NorthEastern RR, but American Sugar Refining (later American Crystal Sugar) backed off in its war with Holly Sugar over the sugar refining and supply capacities in SE Colorado. Union Pacific's Kansas Pacific/ "Arkansas Valley Ry" (which I assume DC is expert on, being from the SE CO area) was coming from the other direction (Kit Carson-Las Animas-La Junta-Timpas Creek/Swink) in 1875 until it fizzled out in 1877....Coulda been a congested place.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:38 PM

tree68

 

 
doghouse
Mr. Chicken, I know not who A&K is.  Would you be so kind as to provide a brief history of the cast of characters and their nefarious deeds?

 

I doubt MC would be willing to post that here.  If you do a search on "a&k railroad colorado problems" you'll find a few links that might give you an idea of what's going on.  Hint:  at least one link included the word "vultures."

 

From what I have seen, these people are vultures; vultures (the bird kind) look for dead or almost dead animals and if the animal is not quite dead will attack it so as to hasten its death. 

May they be absolutely foiled in this instance.

Johnny

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:30 PM

doghouse
Mr. Chicken, I know not who A&K is.  Would you be so kind as to provide a brief history of the cast of characters and their nefarious deeds?

I doubt MC would be willing to post that here.  If you do a search on "a&k railroad colorado problems" you'll find a few links that might give you an idea of what's going on.  Hint:  at least one link included the word "vultures."

LarryWhistling
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Posted by doghouse on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 9:42 PM

mudchicken
 
chutton01

Ok, so the STB filing is void - probably my search term string was lacking, but that was the latest info I could find with simple searching (lots of info from 2000 or so discussing how spiffy the new operators were going to be).
As for the Todd Point, CO - USGS map - this is what I could find - not sure what the hint means.

BTW, the turn of the century articles indicated the freight traffic expected was pretty much grain and quarry, with a rail museum eventually.  What were/are the real revenue prospects for this line?

 

 

 

(1) As for the map, lower right hand corner, it's there in bold black letters (it isn't in Hutton's cut & paste attachment above...DC got it.)...Looks kinda dumb when you don't even know whatcha bought?

(2) white winter wheat (the drought is finally over), relatively high grade (for filtering) limestone deposits, oil & gas (read fracking) carload bulk materials plus some E-W bridge traffic. Car storage has helped a little, but it kills operations (A&K already stripped the backtracks and sidings where they could get away with it - a couple of the Ag industries didn't catch on until it was too late. Typical less than above board or ethical A&K stealth tactic.)

 

Mr. Chicken, I know not who A&K is.  Would you be so kind as to provide a brief history of the cast of characters and their nefarious deeds?

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Posted by JOHN MEHRLING on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:58 PM

Between Fower and Boone there is a junction - which line is that coming in from the southeast?  It looks like there were 2 roadbeds west of there?  Can anyone give a little history of those lines?

Thank you.

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:32 PM

chutton01

Ok, so the STB filing is void - probably my search term string was lacking, but that was the latest info I could find with simple searching (lots of info from 2000 or so discussing how spiffy the new operators were going to be).
As for the Todd Point, CO - USGS map - this is what I could find - not sure what the hint means.

BTW, the turn of the century articles indicated the freight traffic expected was pretty much grain and quarry, with a rail museum eventually.  What were/are the real revenue prospects for this line?

 

(1) As for the map, lower right hand corner, it's there in bold black letters (it isn't in Hutton's cut & paste attachment above...DC got it.)...Looks kinda dumb when you don't even know whatcha bought?

(2) white winter wheat (the drought is finally over), relatively high grade (for filtering) limestone deposits, oil & gas (read fracking) carload bulk materials plus some E-W bridge traffic. Car storage has helped a little, but it kills operations (A&K already stripped the backtracks and sidings where they could get away with it - a couple of the Ag industries didn't catch on until it was too late. Typical less than above board or ethical A&K stealth tactic.)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by diningcar on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:27 PM

Looks to me like our college MC has found that Otero County is involved for a very short distance which 'probably' voids the abandonment application because of the inaccurate description.

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Posted by chutton01 on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 4:15 PM

Ok, so the STB filing is void - probably my search term string was lacking, but that was the latest info I could find with simple searching (lots of info from 2000 or so discussing how spiffy the new operators were going to be).
As for the Todd Point, CO - USGS map - this is what I could find - not sure what the hint means.

BTW, the turn of the century articles indicated the freight traffic expected was pretty much grain and quarry, with a rail museum eventually.  What were/are the real revenue prospects for this line?

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 3:07 PM

(1)  The thing is in limbo. The abandonment filing is void.

(2) There are two offers for assistance out there...

(3) The rail pickup train is gone.

(4) A&K (V&S) is about to collide with STB. A&K tried a procedural end around the last time and it blew up in their face. Two separate sets of attorneys plus CDOT made a fundamental blunder that nobody, except the surveyors (PLSC) caught. PLSC also hammered them on the Federal Grant R/W issue that they tried to sweep under the rug.

(5) A&K owns the railroad, but they failed to notify STB or anyone else until recently (another A&K junkman's careless blunder)

(6) A&K is going to have to explain why it ignores state statute in two separate cases. They are already in the state's crosshairs for two other screw-ups that date back to the 1990's. Their biggest enemy is looking back at them in the mirror. 

Chutton: Your entry above is missing something very key, very simple. Look at state map and see if you can find it. Hint: look at a USGS quad for Todd Point, Colorado.

Stay tuned.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, November 16, 2015 9:26 PM

You may already know this, but V&S railway filed for abandoment of the line in August of this year 2015)

V and S Railway, LLC—Abandonment
Exemption—in Pueblo, Crowley, and
Kiowa Counties, Colo.
V and S Railway, LLC (V&S) has filed
a verified notice of exemption under 49
CFR part 1152 subpart F—Exempt
Abandonments to abandon a line of
railroad extending between milepost
747.5 near Towner and milepost 869.4
near NA Junction, a distance of 121.9
miles in Pueblo, Crowley, and Kiowa
Counties, Colo. (the Towner Line). The
Towner Line traverses United States
Postal Service Zip Codes 81022, 80125,
81062, 81033, 81063, 81076, 81021,
81045, 81036, and 81071

Docket No. AB 603 (Sub-No. 4X)

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Towner Railroad: status/future?
Posted by caboose63 on Monday, November 16, 2015 6:40 PM

i am curious about the 122 mile long towner railroad which operates 122 miles of ex MP track from NA junction near pueblo, colorado to Towner colorado on colorado/kansas border. is this shortline still in business, or is it being torn up for scrap. heard that V&S Railway owned it and then heard state of colorado owned the railroad. can anyone help me sort out which is correct info?

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