The LA Times, after reviewing project documents, says"The deadline and budget targets will almost cerainly be missed"and state officials have "underestimated the challenges ahead". Current best projection for completion of Phase I is 2030 missing the original 2022.
Project-management firm Parsons Brinckerhoff said in a secret 2013 report which the Times obtained, that it saw cost overruns "in almost every phase of the project".
The state hasn't figured out how to finance the current costs, much less the overruns. All of this was projected by several at this site a few years ago.
Governor Moonbeam let costs get out of control?
Whoda thunk?
Norm
Norm48327 Governor Moonbeam let costs get out of control? Whoda thunk? Unfortunately, I guess this is what passes for intelligent discourse in your part of the country.
Unfortunately, I guess this is what passes for intelligent discourse in your part of the country.
Were you expecting me to congratulate him?
Oh, and if you want intelligent discourse tyr sloshing oil.
California Highspeed Rail solgan:
Carrying nobody between noplace and nowhere at exorbitant cost.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmitt California Highspeed Rail solgan: Carrying nobody between noplace and nowhere at exorbitant cost.
While we have no plans to secure sufficient water for the people.
Norm48327Oh, and if you want intelligent discourse tyr sloshing oil.
diningcar The LA Times, after reviewing project documents, says"The deadline and budget targets will almost cerainly be missed"and state officials have "underestimated the challenges ahead". Current best projection for completion of Phase I is 2030 missing the original 2022. Project-management firm Parsons Brinckerhoff said in a secret 2013 report which the Times obtained, that it saw cost overruns "in almost every phase of the project". The state hasn't figured out how to finance the current costs, much less the overruns. All of this was projected by several at this site a few years ago.
These problems aren't really news to a lot of us skeptics here in la-la land. What raised my eyebrows was learning these harsh criticisms were in a long and thorough critique published in the usually Jerry Brown-friendly Los Angeles Times. It's not the first left-leaning publication to question the project, but it has a lot more clout than Mother Jones magazine. This could be a sign that the whole scheme is in deeper trouble. Stay tuned.
Norm: Is it necessary to drag Gov. Brown into the discussion? Politics are AFAIK, strengst verboten!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
It's pretty hard to explore the California HSR project without dragging some of the politics into it, much more difficult than, say, the PTC deadline discussion, which has been crawling with political references.
It's reasonably objective to say that HSR is Gov. Brown's pet project. Offhand, I doubt than any halfway-alert adult here I know would dispute that, regardless of poitical leaning. And regardless of one's opinion of him or the plan, if the L. A. Times is coming down hard on it, it's probably in trouble.
ChessieCat123Geeze for railfans I would think we would be all gung ho for this.
Not on the Trains forums. Most (not all) posters are very critical of or totally opposed to HSR for a variety of reasons, such as: too expensive, not needed, the US doesn't need to copy what other nations have done, all we need are nostalgia trains as in the 1950s, or Amercans prefer cars.
Not unusual when something is the first one built or otherwise finding the best way instead of following the beaten path (best practices). A certain amount of R&D was baked into the costs and that is very easy to underestimate.
schlimm ChessieCat123 Geeze for railfans I would think we would be all gung ho for this. Not on the Trains forums. Most (not all) posters are very critical of or totally opposed to HSR for a variety of reasons, such as: too expensive, not needed, the US doesn't need to copy what other nations have done, all we need are nostalgia trains as in the 1950s, or Amercans prefer cars.
ChessieCat123 Geeze for railfans I would think we would be all gung ho for this.
schlimm:
None of that was the point of my post. Governments, and not just California, are accustomed to spending money they don't have on pet projects while necessities go begging. I would think it would behove California to be spending money to rectify their water problems before building high speed rail. Deficit spending can not last forever. Eventually, the turnips run out of blood.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Norm48327 quoting schlimm: posters are very critical of or totally opposed to HSR for a variety of reasons, such as: too expensive, not needed, the US doesn't need to copy what other nations have done, all we need are nostalgia trains as in the 1950s, or Amercans prefer cars. schlimm: None of that was the point of my post. Governments, and not just California, are accustomed to spending money they don't have on pet projects while necessities go begging.
schlimm: None of that was the point of my post. Governments, and not just California, are accustomed to spending money they don't have on pet projects while necessities go begging.
Norm: Au contraire! I think "too expensive" and "not needed" cover your points.
Unfortunately, the upgrade approach is not possible here because there is no line satisfactory to improve for acceptable modern passenger service between LA and SF. The Coast line would have to be virtually replaced and is too long. The San Joaquin Valley line goes over Tehachapi, essentially impossible for passenger service, and both that part and its northern end would have to be replaced with new allignments. Especially between Bakersfield and LA, there isn't much difference between building a new highspeed line and a new faster line, which would then have to be replaced again to get to a high speed line.
Also, those of us in LA are familiar with the badly degraded LA Times. Raph V exclusively writes anti-highspeed rail articles. For informed discussion, both pro and con go to the California High Speed Rail Blog.
I think they should bring in coolies from China to save on construction expense.
billio I think they should bring in coolies from China to save on construction expense.
Pretty offensive language there.
I think California took a Cadillac approach to HSR that drive up the costs Tens of Billions of Dollars. Maybe it will payoff later in cheap expansion costs once they get the backbone in. I cannot believe all the under city running and bridges the California line is going to have being in a state prone to Earthquakes.........Cha-Ching!
ChessieCat123 Meanwhile in the same LA Times no one questions the cost of this-
Meanwhile in the same LA Times no one questions the cost of this-
I am not quite sure what your point is here. I have seen plenty of comments about the new bomber deal, including negative comments. Maybe look for them on an airplane or news site. It really has no reason to be posted on a trains focused web site, unless you are doing the whole child like argument of "they got money so I should as well".
Airliners.net has a whole thread about it, including some complaining about the cost.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/170570/
An "expensive model collector"
Because this massive boondoggel was sold to the voters, the only way to stop it is by voter initiative. But, ELON MUSK's HYPERLOOP System will be tested on a five mile tube in the next year or two, it will make the HSR obsolete, I HOPE!
ChessieCat123 My point is....That the LA Times as well as other Conservitive Tabloids questions domestic spending on public works and welfare projects while not questioning miltary spending and giving defence contractors a blank check. Not being from the west coast my wife just reminded me that Defence Industry out still employs a lot of people. However I believe that if we have high speed electric trains we could reduce our dependency on oil that comes from the Middle East perpetual war zones and we would not need the Stealth Bombers in the first place.---Ow BTW this is a Long Range Stealth Bomber that could be used against Russia or China in a cold war scenrio (Not against a bunch of raga tag Bedoins in the desert) and if we use them its the end of the world as we know it anyway. Again my point is that California needs to go with a more conventional system rather then a Buck Rodgers system that the average man can"t afford anyway.
My point is....That the LA Times as well as other Conservitive Tabloids questions domestic spending on public works and welfare projects while not questioning miltary spending and giving defence contractors a blank check. Not being from the west coast my wife just reminded me that Defence Industry out still employs a lot of people. However I believe that if we have high speed electric trains we could reduce our dependency on oil that comes from the Middle East perpetual war zones and we would not need the Stealth Bombers in the first place.---Ow BTW this is a Long Range Stealth Bomber that could be used against Russia or China in a cold war scenrio (Not against a bunch of raga tag Bedoins in the desert) and if we use them its the end of the world as we know it anyway.
Again my point is that California needs to go with a more conventional system rather then a Buck Rodgers system that the average man can"t afford anyway.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding ChessieCat123 My point is....That the LA Times as well as other Conservitive Tabloids questions domestic spending on public works and welfare projects while not questioning miltary spending and giving defence contractors a blank check. Not being from the west coast my wife just reminded me that Defence Industry out still employs a lot of people. However I believe that if we have high speed electric trains we could reduce our dependency on oil that comes from the Middle East perpetual war zones and we would not need the Stealth Bombers in the first place.---Ow BTW this is a Long Range Stealth Bomber that could be used against Russia or China in a cold war scenrio (Not against a bunch of raga tag Bedoins in the desert) and if we use them its the end of the world as we know it anyway. Again my point is that California needs to go with a more conventional system rather then a Buck Rodgers system that the average man can"t afford anyway. I dunno, maybe your beef is with the LA Times and how they report the news? I don't know where you get "Buck Rodgers system" What is planned is a conventional high speed rail line, as used in countries all over the world. As I pointed out before, there is no practical way to upgrade the present lines given their routes and the topography. Also, the California lines were not built for high capacity passenger service, as were the eastern lines. There is no capacity to handle serious passenger traffic. The existing lines would have to be replaced in any event. Also Ralph V. is not reporting news. He writes opinion pieces, exclusively anit-high speed rail. The LA Times, like most newspapers, is a shadow of its former self.
I dunno, maybe your beef is with the LA Times and how they report the news?
Has the LA Times changed? They were pretty liberal when I lived there in the 1980's. There was another major paper that took the conservitive side.
We don't have to be dependent on Mideast oil now. We have much more oil than they do. If the Federal goverment would allow it we and Canada could supply our own needs and most of Western Europes too.
DSchmittHas the LA Times changed? They were pretty liberal when I lived there in the 1980's.
The Times was bought by Tribune Publishing in 2000. Since then, they have gone through publishers and editors like wildfire and although not a conservative paper, most observers would say it is not as liberal as it formerly was.
wanswheel The Times they are a-changin’
Indeed, California and the L. A. Times have changed quite a bit since then.
At that time, incumbent Gov. Pat Brown (father of Jerry) was only the second Democrat to serve as governor of that state since 1899. You can look it up.
And since then, the newspaper (while varying some over the years) has become pretty reliably liberal and was, if I recall correctly, very much on board with the HSR plan. That's part of what makes this a story. The paper has done a big piece of investigative journalism here, and has really stirred the pot.
Don't expect this to go away anytime soon.
Schlimm, das ist rechts, verboten.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
ChessieCat123 Most major public works projects have some leval of corruption. However that did not stop the Interstate Highway System in its tracks. The press is supposed to weed out corruption but does not offer any alternitives. There real job is to stir up the pot and increase circulation and ratings. The LA times endorced Goldwater because that would get people talking and stick it to the hippies that were infecting California. Now that we have all grown up does this have to be a all or nothing?
Most major public works projects have some leval of corruption. However that did not stop the Interstate Highway System in its tracks. The press is supposed to weed out corruption but does not offer any alternitives. There real job is to stir up the pot and increase circulation and ratings. The LA times endorced Goldwater because that would get people talking and stick it to the hippies that were infecting California. Now that we have all grown up does this have to be a all or nothing?
Try reading some history of journalism for examples of newspapers uncovering corruption and other cases of illegal activity. There are many. Surely you heard of Watergate?
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