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Buffett's BNSF Builds Twin-Track Rail Superhighway to Grab Truck Freight

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, October 11, 2015 10:57 PM

I think domestic intermodal is the growth opportunity, more so than imports.  Buffett is smart and the BNSF goal, as the article says, is to grab traffic from trucking, which means domestic.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, October 11, 2015 10:29 PM

schlimm
True.  One thing you see from the statistics is that intermodal represents almost as many carloadings as all other sources combined.

UP is investing a lot more than BNSF in intermodal and interior Intermodal ports than BNSF is.....in my opinion.

I am curious how CSX is going to improve with their tunnel clearance projects and addition of some North-South capacity.  Seems Wall Street has a lot of hopes there and CSX stock is holding fairly steady despite the drops in Coal and Oil traffic.    Have my doubts the updated Panama Canal will have as much impact as Wall Street is banking on though......we'll see.    So hopefully CSX has a targeted Intermodal marketing campaign they intend to roll out.

Wall Street still thinks CSX is a merger candidate for CP though, a good chunk of people think CP is going to find a way at some point.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:07 PM

CMStPnP

Wow has this thread gone off topic!    Anyhow, I wish the BNSF luck but I still think UP will eat their lunch as it has more and longer rail corridors to serve with Intermodal.

 

LaughLaughLaugh

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:59 AM

dakotafred-  I see what you mean.  In S.D. Pierre, and Fort Pierre accross the river,  were about the only good sized cities or town affected by the annual spring flooding.  Being a lot smaller than Bismarck, I  don't think the same real estate games went on.  You are right about some of the indian tribes coming out on the short end of the dam projects.

     Speaking of off-topic, while thinking over this reply, I happened to watch all of BaltACD's meme.  Laugh I guess I'd never noticed there was an ending before.

     On topic- the article makes it sound as if doubling the track will double the amount of freight hauled.  Is that type of proportional thinking realistic?  In comparison, how much freight does UP haul on its transcon compared ton BNSF on its transcon?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:20 AM

Ask the Native Americans about 'illegal' immigration!

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, October 11, 2015 7:55 AM

Murphy Siding
 
dakotafred

What hydropower produces is usually worth less than what it destroys, not only in resources but in natural beauty. The flooded Missouri River valley (where I live) is Exhibit A.

The test: Would the dams be built again? No way!

 

 

 

 I've always read that an important featue of the Missouri dams built in the Dakota I live in was to provide flood control in the spring.  This seems to be a useful tool on the Nebraska / South Dakota border.  Further north, where the river is contined in deep valleys, maybe not so much.

     What resources were destoyed by the ND dams?

 

 

Murphy is absolutely correct that the main idea was flood control, and Dakguy that the flood control enabled a lot of commercial and residential development in the valley.

However, as I see it -- certainly as it played out in my city of Bismarck -- the development was mainly for the enrichment of a few well-placed farmers and would have taken place elsewhere in the vicinity without the dams. And, of course, it allowed housebuilders to fill up the valley with trophy houses where there used to be cottonwood trees.

We flooded out no end of archaeology and natural landmarks. As usual, the worst damage was sustained by Indians. (A wag once suggested that the fastest way to locate Indian reservations on a map is to look for the big puddles of water.) The farming Indians of Ft. Berthold -- previously an exception to the poverty rule -- were relocated to the hilly heights and now host all the modern reservation problems.

P.S. Sure, we're off topic. And the damage to the common weal is ... what?

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:17 PM

CMStPnP

Wow has this thread gone off topic!    Anyhow, I wish the BNSF luck but I still think UP will eat their lunch as it has more and longer rail corridors to serve with Intermodal.

 

True.  One thing you see from the statistics is that intermodal represents almost as many carloadings as all other sources combined.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:16 PM

CMStPnP

Wow has this thread gone off topic!    Anyhow, I wish the BNSF luck but I still think UP will eat their lunch as it has more and longer rail corridors to serve with Intermodal.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:23 PM

Mookie
As we all reach a certain age, I think this is what happens to everyone....

True, but for a different reason...

While we seem to have wandered off topic, there is still relevance to railroads.  In addition to flood control, dams have been used to control navigability of rivers.  Removal of dams may have an effect on river traffic, and it's possible that traffic would go by rail.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:45 PM

A lot of dams built last century are now inadaquatly maintained.  Small hydro plants are closed as inefficient, and some backwaters have filled up with sediment.  Your tax dollars now have to go to a ferderal program to remove them, restore rivers thru former resevoirs, and buy out properties in flood plains.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, October 10, 2015 1:14 PM

Wow has this thread gone off topic!    Anyhow, I wish the BNSF luck but I still think UP will eat their lunch as it has more and longer rail corridors to serve with Intermodal.

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:38 AM

Murphy Siding

  I've always read that an important featue of the Missouri dams built in the Dakota I live in was to provide flood control in the spring.  This seems to be a useful tool on the Nebraska / South Dakota border.  Further north, where the river is contined in deep valleys, maybe not so much.

     What resources were destoyed by the ND dams?

 

Much of the industrial and residential development that has occured around here since the early 1950's would be in a frequent flood plain without those dams.  We got just a taste of what would be an annual event here without the dams a few years ago.  A freak rain storm system combined with unusually heavy winter snows in the upper Rockies and lousy reservoir management by the Corps of Engineers overcame the storage capacity of the system. 

As a bonus, we get cheap and non-polluting hydropower.

Nearly all of the bank stabilization material used on the river as rip rap is those "pink rocks" that Murphy sees on the trains that go by his workplace.

 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, October 9, 2015 10:15 PM

dakotafred

What hydropower produces is usually worth less than what it destroys, not only in resources but in natural beauty. The flooded Missouri River valley (where I live) is Exhibit A.

The test: Would the dams be built again? No way!

 

 I've always read that an important featue of the Missouri dams built in the Dakota I live in was to provide flood control in the spring.  This seems to be a useful tool on the Nebraska / South Dakota border.  Further north, where the river is contained in deep valleys, maybe not so much.

     What resources were destoyed by the ND dams?

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 9, 2015 9:33 PM

So, to keep this neutral - what if we, the people, can't come to an agreement on a particular type of energy - will we find ourselves one day lighting the last ounce of coal and saying "now what"?  

I will leave it at that and enjoy all the different answers everyone has.(No, I have no answers, but I won't be around for the above either!)

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Posted by dakotafred on Friday, October 9, 2015 9:06 PM

What hydropower produces is usually worth less than what it destroys, not only in resources but in natural beauty. The flooded Missouri River valley (where I live) is Exhibit A.

The test: Would the dams be built again? No way!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 9, 2015 7:22 PM

tree68

Hydropower is clean and efficient, but has its detractors as well.

There's one version of hydropower that requires other sources of power, and that's stored.  Water is pumped uphill into a reservoir, then released to generate power during peak demand.  

...

 

In Michigan they recently built a wind farm next to a pumped storage plant.  A great way to even out the variability of wind.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 9, 2015 7:16 PM

Mookie

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

 

There is also solar.  Germany gets a lot of energy from solar (I think it's 30%) and Germany is not really a very sunny place.

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 9, 2015 6:35 PM

tree68
Unfortunately, there are those who would prefer we go back to eating roots and berries, and using available daylight only.  

As we all reach a certain age, I think this is what happens to everyone....

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, October 9, 2015 5:23 PM

Hydropower is clean and efficient, but has its detractors as well.

There's one version of hydropower that requires other sources of power, and that's stored.  Water is pumped uphill into a reservoir, then released to generate power during peak demand.  

It does require some manner of elevation, however, and that's kinda rare out on the plains as well.

Unfortunately, there are those who would prefer we go back to eating roots and berries, and using available daylight only.  

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, October 9, 2015 5:16 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Mookie

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

 

Tidal movement can generate energy.  However, there isn't too much tidal movement in Iowa and Nebraska.

 

There's not much in Utah, either, though the level of the Great Salt Lake does fluctuate.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, October 9, 2015 4:31 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Mookie

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

 

Tidal movement can generate energy.  However, there isn't too much tidal movement in Iowa and Nebraska.

 

  Not yet.....     Mischief

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 9, 2015 3:27 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Mookie

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

 

Tidal movement can generate energy.  However, there isn't too much tidal movement in Iowa and Nebraska.

 

 Laugh

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 9, 2015 3:17 PM

Mookie

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

Tidal movement can generate energy.  However, there isn't too much tidal movement in Iowa and Nebraska.

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 9, 2015 2:44 PM

So - we go to wind turbines.  Birds and noise, so far.  Is there anything that has less drawbacks than coal, electricity, wind, nuclear - probably a dirt that can make energy - I don't know.  Everything has its drawbacks, but what would be the least in the drawback department?  (I know - depends on who you talk to about this)

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Friday, October 9, 2015 8:19 AM

Coal now. Gas next. Sierra Club and others were successful in lobbying to get the Northwest's two remaining coal-fired powerplants (Centralia, WA; Boardman, OR) to agree to a phase-out of coal in the coming years. And they've no doubt been successful in shutting down coal plants elsewhere. But they're not stopping at coal. They're already targeting natural gas. Sierra Club got themselves regretably entangled in a scandal involving collusion with the gas industry as part of their "Beyond Coal" campaign. Now they've cut those gas ties and are turning against gas. This could have implications not just for the nation's production of electricity, but for the efforts by some railroads to develop LNG-fueled locomotives.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sierra+club+natural+gas+campaign&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=nts

 http://content.sierraclub.org/creative-archive/sites/content.sierraclub.org.creative-archive/files/pdfs/100_58-Natural-Gas_FactSheet_11_low_0.pdf

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304363104577390432521371296

Etc....

 

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, October 9, 2015 7:22 AM

Ah - I hadn't thought of natural gas!  Of course!  And, Tree - if you ever watch House Hunters, people are so finicky about not looking out their window and seeing either neighbor's houses or electrical lines anywhere near the property.  This is the United States, not the United Islands!  

I love that this is a teaching forum!  

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Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Thursday, October 8, 2015 9:57 PM

Mookie

Since I always ask simple questions...

If you shut down a majority or even some of the coal-fired plants, what is the alternative.  They want to cut back on coal, but I haven't seen any replacements yet.  Wind turbines are a solution, but the general public is complaining about the noise.  (With our constant wind, we should be able to be over-energized!)  I think we have 2 - maybe 3 here in area.  

 

  I can't speak with =any= real knowledge, but the multiple coal-powered plants listed for closing in the eastern Ohio Valley seem to be small plants and/or plants with significant captial needs (including new emissions control equipment).  My guess is that that the power companies will draw on existing power plants that have already undergone or are worth the capital investment for emissions fitting.   I would also guess that any new capacity that will be needed in this area will probably use natural gas which is now cheap, abundant, and nearby to many of the plants still fueled with Appalachian coal - which has become extremely expensive to mine.  The often-cited "War On Coal" is mostly fluff - extraction costs are gradually pushing the break-even point for using Powder River coal a few miles east every year even without stricter Federal regulations.  15 years ago it was drawn along the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers to Chicago, thence along the beaches of the Great Lakes (at least for water-served plants).   Now it's more or less along line a line from Central Michigan south to Savannah, GA save for local sources in Indiana and Illinois.

Hopefully the utilities will spread their fuel use over a wider variety of fuel in the future - eventually the cost of NG and oil will increase, and coal will again become a valid choice in some areas.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 8, 2015 9:54 PM

Mookie
Wind turbines are a solution, but the general public is complaining about the noise.  (With our constant wind, we should be able to be over-energized!)  I think we have 2 - maybe 3 here in area.  

Many areas have seen significant pushback on wind, some because of problems with birdstrikes, some for visual reasons, and even some because of jealousy (they'll benefit and I won't...).

A locale near here saw a summer resident change his residency to this area, and he ran (successfully) for town supervisor.  Wind is a dead issue there - mostly due to people who didn't want to see the turbines.  Ironically, the Canadians (who didn't have to seek approval on this side of the river) built a large wind farm which the anti-wind folks have to look at every time they gaze on the river...

As for traffic levels, sometimes we tend to forget the cyclical nature of many types of traffic.  Grain we get, but others may be less obvious.

We have seen wind turbine parts travelling by rail here.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, October 8, 2015 9:42 PM

Mookie- Simple answer is that there is a plentiful supply of (relatively) cheap natural gas right now.

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