And I thought Carl was a retired railroader--or is that why he is retired?
Ahem: stringlined.
Thanks, MC. I'm sure the Cat thanks you, too.
Johnny
mudchicken (Radius?.... REAL railroaders don't need no stinkin' radius! )
Yeah, but the ulna will be really lonesome without it.
Gage side, high/outside rail at all three places. (otherwise the middle of the string gets snagged or hung up on the rail which can create false measurements)....Field side on the low rail would generate a similar number, but it isn't the actual running surface corner.
The stringline concept, albeit modified, is how the big curve liners work as well.
DiningCar, PDN and I have strungline* more than we would like to admit and then gone through the repetitive brain damage of mathematical iteratively balancing the "throws" to smooth a curve...
While stringlining has its issues, it often is all you have when the surveyors are elsewhere on something more pressing. Some old head track side Division Engineers and above wanted stringlining to the exclusion of a surveyed solution.
(*) real verb? Spel-czech might fry a processor on that one.
CShaveRR Yes.
Yes.
Ns was clear when I left work.I would think autoracks would be cars to tip over on sharp curves as well.Matt and I are going to a Christmas concert. Will see what CSX has running (or waiting to get to Garrett.)
stay safe
Joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Good explanation MC, but lacking one factor. Are the ends of the string on the gage side of the rail head or the field side?
Norm
The string-lining Carl described often has a train handling component to to it and usually it is slack action acting as the trigger as the drawbars run in and out.
Trackmen have another version of stringlining that they are all to familiar with which involves measurements based on 31 and 62 foot chords. The FRA rules are based on this and the track guys use stringlining because us mudchickens often aren't handy when ya need 'em. (Using a 62 foot string, if you measure the mid-ordinate at 31 feet on the string (the distance from the string over to the gage corner of the ball of the rail) in inches, you get the degree of curve. For the ten degree curve mentioned above would have a 10 inch distance between the string and the gage corner of the rail. (Radius?.... REAL railroaders don't need no stinkin' radius! )
(Murphy: We've been trying to pay off the Cat on an installment plan. At the rate I'm going, the cat is gonna have a lifetime supply of chocolate cake. ... )
Glad that stringlining was explained to your satisfaction, SJ.
Center-beam flat cars are far and away the worst offenders here. They're heavier on top than most other cars of that height, and the other cars have heavy underframes to lower the center of gravity, which Center-beams do not (the partition itself takes the place of the underframe in making the car rigid under load).In my experience, the curves that are the sites of stringline derailments eventually find themselves rebuilt in some way, if possible.
Stringlining was also a frequent cause of derailments involving piggyback cars. I remember a derailment in 1969 on the CWI at the 130th Street curve. The curve was superelevated and I suspect some less than ideal train handling led to the slack being pulled out and the piggyback cars went right on their side inside the curve.
BaltACD Mookie When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling) Normally, long, empty cars are involved in 'stringline' derailments. The tonnage of the train that is behind the long empties creates the 'drag' that overstresses the empties ability to stay on the rail.
Mookie When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)
When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)
Normally, long, empty cars are involved in 'stringline' derailments. The tonnage of the train that is behind the long empties creates the 'drag' that overstresses the empties ability to stay on the rail.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Wow - a picture and lots of words (probably not printable)
Thanx Balt. This I can understand.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Just saw a picture of a bunch of aluminum hoppers at the bottom of the hill having been stringlined on a 10 degree curve (pretty sharp in railroad terms).
As with my string example, you need something pulling on both ends. Too much power, heavy loads at the other end (with the aforementioned empty cars), brakes released on the front but not on the rear (and power applied), a significant grade - any of them could combine to cause the problem.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Mookie Murphy Siding ps Happy Birthday! (And Merry Christmas. Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? . pss working on the Christmas letter.) Combine them and I know where to get a whole gon of coal for your sock drawer. But if you could include a little chocolate cake in letter....
Murphy Siding ps Happy Birthday! (And Merry Christmas. Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? . pss working on the Christmas letter.)
ps Happy Birthday! (And Merry Christmas. Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? . pss working on the Christmas letter.)
[quote user="Murphy Siding"
[/quote] Combine them and I know where to get a whole gon of coal for your sock drawer. But if you could include a little chocolate cake in letter....
Mookie Carl - many years ago stringlining was explained, but I have forgotten what it is. Could you or someone explain again to me and anyone else that forgot or doesn't know - what happens?
Carl - many years ago stringlining was explained, but I have forgotten what it is.
Could you or someone explain again to me and anyone else that forgot or doesn't know - what happens?
Take a piece of string and form it in an arc on the table. Pull the ends.
With a train and a sharp curve, pulling too hard on one end with too much resistance on the other will do the same thing, except it's railroad cars getting pulled over...
Norm48327 Mookie is NOT forty-something. She's 39.95 plus shipping and handling.
Mookie is NOT forty-something. She's 39.95 plus shipping and handling.
mudchicken(3) tree: Gonna have to swap some Polar Stories if I survive this year. Got an "Emmujacation" this past weekend in polar foibles.
Our executive director and south-end manager were out your way this past weekend to see how they do it. We think we've got a good formula, but it's been a battle to keep it intact. The licensing people have all these ideas....
It can get interesting, but we've worked out a lot of bugs, so most trips are relatively incident free.
Mum's the word (I got the message). And grand-mum...and...
I was witness to a huge derailment of a perishable train on a curve in Glen Ellyn today. The train somehow stringlned on a curve that the same train had gone over 100 times before, and all of the flat cars and the C&NW GP7 pulling them went off the tracks and down into the abyss. Said abyss was loaded with sandwich parts, french fries, smashed cupcakes, and the (way)bill.So much for Linda, Chris, and Linus' introduction to the 2Toots restaurant in Glen Ellyn this noon. The kid ate well, and the parents were impressed with just how child-friendly this place is. The sad news for Linus (and Grandpa) was that we were not in a good position to respond to the passage of real trains on the real mainline in Glen Ellyn, which hasn't had a derailment on the curve in nearly 40 years.
JoeKoh Hope our resident kitty had a nice birthday.Chores to do. stay safe Joe
Hope our resident kitty had a nice birthday.Chores to do.
Sir Chicken: Sport/Stewart? Getting better by the minute. He will probably end up almost answering to "yo!"....
(1) I guess nobody else saw the delicious irony over on the blogs on the photo that went with M. Kenton's environmental post. Those of us who know South Denver, where the photo was taken -from Sixth Avenue (South Park Jcn.) looking back south - know that the siding that the blades (probably from Vestas-Windsor CO) are sitting on is designated on BNSF's Denver Terminal as Coal Siding 1. Coal Siding 2 is further north up by Pepsi Center/Elitch Gardens.
(2) BossHen is home settling-in "Sport" (aka Stewart), the new house mouser - just rescued from the local cat-house. I have yet to meet the guy and get all the straight poop on the new addition. After he finds out that he's gonna share the house with a new dog next year, this old dirty bird may have become persona-non-grata in his own house. (Witness protection program for old dirty birds?....at least the previous scotties deeded me the doghouse before they checked out)
(3) tree: Gonna have to swap some Polar Stories if I survive this year. Got an "Emmujacation" this past weekend in polar foibles.
Ns local was working uptown when we left.Ordered new safety glasses through work.Also went and mailed packages and got oil changed in mammas sled.Hope our resident kitty had a nice birthday.Chores to do.
Took Matt to Garrett after work.CSx had q 386 working in the yard.Empty coal train came west with 2 orange BNSF aces.Matt wanted to check the signal status on Ns so we went that way home.Saw 2 westbound container trains.Need to repay a couple some kindness.They had coupons for where we stopped for lunch and shared. Getting chores caught up.
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