Railfanning and Law inforcement.

[Anonymous]

When your out watching Trains minding your own Business eather taking Photo's or Video Tapeing,Do the cops bother you at all. Because we live in a world where alot of people have nothing better to do than than call the cops on there cell phone! Just the other day a crew on a westbound called the Train dispatcher about a Railfan with a Camera on a Tripod very close to the tracks. Ya that's a good way to get the cops called on ya........
But anyway! I myself don't get bothered by the cops at all that much,that's why I myself try to railfan alone (away from public view). But my stupid friends on the other hand now that's another story. I just hate Railfanning out in open public places because people want to make them selves just look realy cool by calling the cops every time thinking: My god there's a person with a Camera on a tripod and a video camera next to a Railroad Track taking pictures of that train "I think he's a Terrorist".......Oh my god! So guess who shows up when your in the middle of your Railfanning Hobby............You guessed it,a cop! I will NEVER Railfan in open public ever again! I mean that THERE ARE Railfans who like to Railfan alone,And I can see why........Now. Because the Public is too PARANOID!
You Railfans do have a choice,What would you do?
Do you Railfan in the open for the public to see you or do Railfan alone?
I can understand that the cops have a job to do but chasing after Railfans when there doing nothing wrong is another thing. I for one thing am not going to let things like that keep me from my love for Trains. I mean this "is" a free country!
Have a nice day[:)].
Oh and one more thing,Keep on Railfanning.

[wcfan4ever]

I will railfan on public property any day. I have rights to be on public property and I have the right to take photos. I have been bothered by the cops more than once but it hasn't slowed me down cause they now know who I am when they see me so they dont bother me anymore. After a few times in the same area of having the cops talk to you, it will slow down and you wont have nothing to worry about. There is nothing wrong with taking pictures so why worry that you will have the cops called on you. Its life! Live with it!

[oskar]

I don't get in to troble with cops only about 3 times before the latest was in April of last year somebody called the cops on us that works for NS. I am not going to tell you thr whole story but, I got into the Masters train for the 2nd time





kevin

[Overmod]

My general practice when trainwatching was to go to one of the police headquarters first, explain what I'd be doing (and mention that I would stay off railroad property, etc.) and have them 'pass the word' to officers on patrol. This method had a 100% success rate when I used it. An alternative is to find an officer on patrol and explain to them... the point is to be proactive, not reactive.

This does presume, of course, that you're not actually trespassing or doing something you shouldn't...

[Anonymous]

I think it has mainly to do with respect and common sense.

If you respect the railway employees, and realize that part of their jobs are to "look out" for the well being of the dunderheaded public who might wonder into harms way, and conduct yourself with common sense such that to the casual observer, it doesn't look like you are taking safety for granted.....I think the chances of getting into trouble ar pretty slim...


Most of the time, when I run into a MOW crew, or an engineer waiting at a crew change point, or at a "stop" signal , a fairly friendly conversation is all that takes place.

Only twice in 47 years have I been run off... Once as a child by a railroad cop near a siding where considerable vandalism had taken place, and once just this past summer, by a mobile switch tender who didn't CARE what I was doing, he only wanted to stop his truck on his way from point a to point b long enough to tell me to get off railroad property,....which, considering he was only doing his job, seemed like a reasonable enough request to me....

Admittedly based soley from my own experiances, but I don't see how anyone gets themselves into actual "trouble" in such confrontations, unless they are doing considerably more than just bystanding or passing through... Seems like the sight of my backside as I heed their request to "leave" is good enough satisfaction for any encounters I have had.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar

I don't get in to troble with cops only about 3 times before the latest was in April of last year somebody called the cops on us that works for NS. I am not going to tell you thr whole story but, I got into the Masters train for the 2nd time





kevin

wow, surprise, surprise!

A NAZI-Southern employee called the cops on you! Are there some sort of weird requirement for potential NS employees, like they try to make sure that %80 of their employees are cranky, unhappy people. Long Live CSXT! I don't know about CSX management, but the employees at least have a little more life and friendliness in their faces!

[oskar]

well,Joey the guy did not see my grandfather or I move in side the van so he was just being curious and didn't want any body to hurt the railroad I wish I would have asked to go in IC 100

PS the CSX train didn't come yet I saw it in Folkston 2 days later




kevin

[Anonymous]

CN employees call the cops on me all the time, Often it is the Cn police.

Theyr eally have nothing to do, so i've discovered.

Whatever, let them have there glory as far as I can see.

[FThunder11]

I stand right next to a UP building when I watch trains. Most of the time the UP emploees are just miding their own business and me and my dad just go right on watching our trains.

[Sterling1]

I got chased off once onthe access road to the one of the coal fired power plants here in the South. The train was CSX unloading the coal , with the windows sealed up and all, and we were about some couple hundred yards away from the security booth. Told that the other side of the access road where the highway was fine, not the power plant access road. Never did return there again because it was out of the way and by the time the guard chased us (my dad and myself) we had gotten all the photos needed.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

This subject has come up more than once in this forum, and especially with the security concerns over the Political party Conventions this past summer and the electiions there seems to have been an air of paranoia around railfans taking pictures especially in the Northeast. In fact, NJ Transit was trying to atfirst prevent photographers from photographing any of its property, buildings stations, busses, or trains, you name it) from public property. The New Jersey Chapter of the ACLU took an interest in this case. Recently the New Jersey Attorney General told NJ Transit to cease and desist, and I believe he ruled that railroad stations or railroad platforms are public property.

My recent experience has been the cops won't bother you if you are photographing trains from public property. However, this has been in VA, MD, and TX. As far as I know there are no laws forbidding photographing trains from public property unless you are near an identifiable military or strategic facility, You might want to check Bert Krages' web site. The best way to do this is to go to your internet search engine such as Google and type in "photographers' rights." One of the first entries will be a link to a flyer he has published regarding the legality of photography.

[Anonymous]

Hello? I am new to this but I finally know what a railfan is. I think it's an alright thing to be doing considering all the other things people could be doing with their time like blowing their money in dingy dim lit bars or doing drugs for recreation. Ever since 9/11 alot people have joined together nation wide and have become the eyes and ears for the governments. So if you are near a railroad, someone calls you in and law enforcement arrives, you have to know it's to be expected. Don't act surprised.

My statement with question is however that all trains to look about the same to me. How many times can anyone burn up film on the same looking diesel electric and all the railroad cars? Doesn't it get tiresome after awhile? I can see if there was like fifty or a hundred different engine designs moving around everywhere, then things could get rather interesting.

[cpbloom]

You seem to be off to a good start annoying everyone and in just your first 6 post. My question to you since railroads don't appear to interest you is why are you here?!?!

[Anonymous]

Railroads do interest me. I am not sure if I have to stand there with a camera or say pleasing things 24/7 in here all the time to show others I like railroads. The very fact that I even signed up here speaks for that. Others like to take photos and that's cool with me. As I drive across some tracks in town I see people off to the side of a busy line with expensive camera equipment. I just want to understand what it is these photographers are setting out to accomplish. Do they get paid for this or is it just a hobby? How many rare photos do they have in their collection? and things like that.

[Mookie]

I am probably going to hit myself in the head for even replying to this in all seriousness, but try anything once.

I don't take pictures but I do read about trains and spend a few hours each weekend watching them. I get a lot of enjoyment out of my "hobby". Some people watch race cars go around a track, some watch football games, etc. I watch trains. The locomotives I see are varied and I enjoy the simple beauty in watching something that powerful work. I enjoy looking at a good photograph of a train scene much in the same way some people like to look at paintings in a gallery.

Why do people photograph anything from wildlife to aircraft? Think about it and you will answer your own questions. You sound pretty young and will need some time to learn how certain things in your life will trigger certain emotions. It can be a wonderful experience or terrifying.

If you like trains, then ask serious quesions. The people on the forum are more than happy to help out newbies and novices like you and me. But don't poke at them and don't toy with them and don't be absurd! If you aren't here to learn and enjoy the different personalities, go to another forum, please.

Mookie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

You seem to be off to a good start annoying everyone and in just your first 6 post. My question to you since railroads don't appear to interest you is why are you here?!?!

I was going to say the same thing but thank god you got to it before me! Thanks.
Number one. Not all trains are all the same thing, they all may look the same but there not. If your a serious Railfan you wouldn't be saying the things you saying. Remember I like loaded coal trains and ohh sure so what's so interesting in a loaded coal train,none!....right?, see every railfan has their likes and dislikes you just have to your god given imagination.Railfanning can be fun.(Sometimes).

[gabe]

I have only had one interaction with the railroad police. I was railfaning the Illinois Central near Centralia Illinois--legally and on public property. The police person came up to me. I decided I would be polite and see what he would have to say. The guy who happened to be railfaning the same place decided to go away from him before he got there.

As it turns out, the police person was coming over to warm me (at risk to himself) that there was a gas leak in the area, they were closing down all rail operations in the area, and it was unsafe for me to be around.

I am glad I decided to be polite and listen to him. Not only was I safer, but I realized that trains would be stacked up in sidings for miles in every direction. Talk about the best of both worlds.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

As a street cop, my primary job is to try and keep stupid people from doing stupid things. A lot of my job involves rolling up next to people who obviously don't belong in a neighborhood, doing odd things.

I am a railfan. I'm also an Operation Lifesaver graduate (the so called "Nazi Southern" local yard has been very cooperative with my Sheriff's Department in training us.) I'm pretty familiar with the wild animal that a freight train represents.

There's a reason why there's 8 bazillion "No Trespassing" signs are up all over railroad property- or any other industrial property, for that matter. It's a quick and easy way for the industry to protect themselves against law suits by stupid people who get themselves hurt on industrial property. It's also a way to grant law enforcement permission to enter property to make arrests for trespassing without waiting for the owner to file a complaint.

I'm used to getting complaints about folks being "hassled" when they do dumb things. Like walking down the middle of mainline tracks. Or idiots doing "art" with a spray can on a busy siding.

Folk, let's face it. Real railfans are oddities. We are outnumbered by stupid people who do really, really dumb things because it's convenient for them to do, or because it gives them instant gratification (like shooting at freight cars or locomotives after a scoreless day hunting deer.) I have no way of knowing whether you are one of those stupid people or someone out hunting that wascally AC unit from CSX with a camera. Either way, I'm going to stop, ask you for an ID, and ask what you are doing there.

I have, in a little over two years of patrol, run into three railfans in my own little patch of Southern paradise. (One was an assistant district attorney... who made me promise to keep his "dirty little secret" of railfanning.) In the same period of time, I have taken a bunch of reports concerning grade crossing accidents... vandalism of railroad property... burglary... auto theft... and made two felony fugitive arrests on guys wandering along the tracks "looking innocent".

Like everything else, your experience with cops usually boils down to attitude. Someone who wants to argue Constitutional law with me on the street is likely to catch a fast trip to court. A calm, happy person who cooperates with me is likely to walk away (or drive away) with a lecture about safety.

Trust me when I tell you that most railfans are pretty cool about my coming up to talk to them. Unfortunately, most of my working life involves contact with really, really, dumb people doing really, really, stupid things.

Erik

[tree68]

Only time I was hassled it was my own fault - the old "put a penny on the rail" thing. Turns out the cops were on active alert due to some sort of threat. I told him what I did, he told me why he questioned my activity and that was that.

These days the red light bar on my truck probably removes a certain amount of suspicion when I'm railfanning. I've met the local trainmaster, and I'm sure that some of the local crews are used to seeing my truck when they have work here at work.

[Anonymous]

Erikthered, I am going to agree with what you said 100%. I am a Deputy Sheriff in the North and things here are identical to what you said. I have patroled my county for 11 years and have seen all manner of idiocy take place on or near the tracks as well. My last incident involved college kids trying to - you guessed it- photograph each other doing stupid things involving a passing train. It was a miracle none of them died doing the things they did ( I won't mention here) but if one of our other patrol officers didn't confront them they would have appeared as railfans because they were at least smart enough to try to hide their activities when passing motorists or locos passed them, so obviously no one called as this was taking place in a rural area obscured by trees. All you or the engineer maybe would have seen was a grougp of 3 guys with a camera and a video camera. So yes, further checking on this did prove negative activity.

My point is that most all law enforcement is good. As in every profession from Dr.s, lawyers,postal service employees down to your local sanitation person, there can be jerks. I too thoroughly enjoy watching trains and Mookie makes a beutiful point that I couldn't agree with more. The bad eggs though do ruin it for the most part. If you do gets chased off, try not to blow a gasket, try to understand the big picture of what else may be going on before you got there. Explain what you are doing and cooperate and Im fairly certain you won't have any problems after that. Happy railfanning! J1 [:)]

[Anonymous]

Ok I thank you all for the good advice,but what is the #1 thing that I keep in mind while im out Railfanning? No tresspasing? Ya well like duu, stupid me.

[gabe]

Officers,

I stronly agree with 99% of what you say, and the protocol you suggest is basically what I follow--not to mention respect your profession both as an individual citizen and a former deputy district attorney/prosecutor.

However, your "Constitutional Argument comment" raised my eyebrow. If I am legally watching trains on public property, I fail to see why--after politely identifying myself (which people are now required to do in certain circumstances by the way) and explaining what I am doing--pointing out to the officer that he may not make me move without providing a legal reason for doing so is offensive and worth a trip downtown? The last thing I want to do is give an officer a hard time, and if he or she gives me a good reason for moving on—even if I am not required to do so by law—I probably will. But, if the officer arrests me on the “because I said so” grounds, I am going to introduce the officer to my familiarity with 42 U.S.C. § 1983.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

Gabe, you are correct. You do have a right to remain on public property after identifying yourself. The officer does not have the legal right to remove you as it would be an illegal search and seizure once you are no longer free to leave or anything else that transpires out of an illegal seizure.. I am familar with 42 U.S.C. § 1983 as well.

Most officers at least that I personally know and work with won't even bother stopping and identifying you. The exception is where we have have prior vandalism, tresspassing, etc. complaints that then you would be spoken to, under reasonable suspicion and even probable cause in some cases but such incidents would be justified. Once the officer has determined that you are not engaged in criminal activity, you legally cannot be removed as long as you are on public property.

[dehusman]

On the other hand, a engineer called in a report that some guys in a boat were video taping under bridges near one major city. The police were notified and met the boat when it came in.

Turns out is was a TV news crew that was caught doing a report on how a ist could photgraph the structure of a bridge without being caught.

Dave H.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

On the other hand, a engineer called in a report that some guys in a boat were video taping under bridges near one major city. The police were notified and met the boat when it came in.

Turns out is was a TV news crew that was caught doing a report on how a ist could photgraph the structure of a bridge without being caught.

Dave H.

I guess that blows that theory out of the water.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

On the other hand, a engineer called in a report that some guys in a boat were video taping under bridges near one major city. The police were notified and met the boat when it came in.

Turns out is was a TV news crew that was caught doing a report on how a ist could photgraph the structure of a bridge without being caught.

Dave H.

I guess that blows that theory out of the water.

It's a good thing that the Train crew saw what was going on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jamison1

Gabe, you are correct. You do have a right to remain on public property after identifying yourself. The officer does not have the legal right to remove you as it would be an illegal search and seizure once you are no longer free to leave or anything else that transpires out of an illegal seizure.. I am familar with 42 U.S.C. § 1983 as well.

Most officers at least that I personally know and work with won't even bother stopping and identifying you. The exception is where we have have prior vandalism, tresspassing, etc. complaints that then you would be spoken to, under reasonable suspicion and even probable cause in some cases but such incidents would be justified. Once the officer has determined that you are not engaged in criminal activity, you legally cannot be removed as long as you are on public property.

Officer,What should I do if im approached by an Officer during Takeing Photo's or Video Taping of a Train? Because I "never" been bothered by no one while railfanning.
Please help!
Thanks.

[CSXrules4eva]

Me lets see. I railfan were ever I can or were I want to. I think I have a right to take interest in my hobby. I've have had the police called on me before. They were pretty kewl about it, I just tell them hey I'm a train nut and I'm here to take pics thats all. Then they say ok. Sometimes people look at me like I'm crazy when I railfan but hay, I'm doing it because I want to. To get some of them off my back I'll tell them I work for the railroad. Then they leave me alone. I've never ran into a train crew who has called the cops most of them wave or smile.

[chemung]

Only on public property and always give a wave to the crew so they know I not going to shoot at them or jump into thier way.Never had any trouble from the RR or police.

[zardoz]

Note to all law enforcement personnel:

When it is the middle of the day, and I am legally parked in full view in a public area, and my tripod is out and the camera is attached, and I am a white, middle-aged male in a bright blue pickup truck, and you approach me and ask me what I am doing, do you realize how stupid that makes you look? It is so difficult to answer politely, instead of saying something like, "You mean BESIDES THE OBVIOUS?"

A little more common sense, and a little less paranoia, please.