And 640 acres make a square mile. Remember that from my "Michigan History and Government" in seventh grade!
I frequently use that figure when reading about forest fires. The burned area is generally reported in acres burned, but while I can picture an acre (208' 9" square), converting it to square miles is just that much more impressive.
If they say that 25,000 acres have been burned over, I realize that it's the same area as the "first due" for our fire department - some 37 square miles...
Trivia on measuring acres - I've read that one method for determining actual acreage of an irregular lot is to cut out the lot (using an accurate map, etc) from cardboard of a known weight and density (ie, cut out an "acre" and determine what it weighs), then weigh the lot cutout and computing the area from there.
I've got an app on my smartphone that will let me walk the boundries of a lot, or anything else (like the final fire line), then it will compute the area.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Remember that 4 rods = 1 chain, 80 chains = 1 mile and 10 square chains = 1 acre
(you are now smarter than most real estate agents and metricfication bubbas)
And Ludlow Ave in Cincinnati Oh with its bridge over the former B&O. They say you should learn something new everyday and I had never heard of much of these surveying and measuring terms until now. What I will do with them...?
Never mind. The board says its not for sale.
I think that's an odd choice for the picture that accompanies the article; it appears to be part of the approach to the Huey P. Long bridge.
http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/11446494-123/public-belt-rr-is-not
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
mudchicken Nope: This kid came from the home of the [Jacob] Gest Standard* and [Israel] Ludlow's Reserve. (Cincinnati) I also am aware of what happens in England and Canada with chartered surveyors (compounded with the mess in a certain city in SE Colorado where the city does all surveying w/ unlicensed surveyors in a good ol' boy system). You learn to deal with it even though you might not like it. Save the surplus cow chips for the local politicians (like they need extra)...Some of what I just witnessed in Western Colorado has left me speechless. (*) 1 Rod = 16'-8" .....Surveyor Jacob Gest bought a brand new surveyor's rod from London. He had a local woodworker make him copies of the thing for everyday use, except they were 2" longer than the original. The pretty english made rod was kept in a safe place in pristine condition while the copies got worn out in hard service. Most of the Cincinnati area in Hamilton County between the Great Miami River and the little Miami River was subdivided with the 2 inch longer rods and a surveyor's compass along with the baseline. Nobody got cheated out of his aliquot portions in the Ludlow Miami Purchase. (Israel Ludlow and Daniel Boone were contemporaries. Everybody has heard about Daniel Boone. Boone had a press agent and Ludlow didn't, so nobody has heard of Ludlow's adventures which put Boone to shame.)
Nope: This kid came from the home of the [Jacob] Gest Standard* and [Israel] Ludlow's Reserve. (Cincinnati) I also am aware of what happens in England and Canada with chartered surveyors (compounded with the mess in a certain city in SE Colorado where the city does all surveying w/ unlicensed surveyors in a good ol' boy system). You learn to deal with it even though you might not like it.
Save the surplus cow chips for the local politicians (like they need extra)...Some of what I just witnessed in Western Colorado has left me speechless.
(*) 1 Rod = 16'-8" .....Surveyor Jacob Gest bought a brand new surveyor's rod from London. He had a local woodworker make him copies of the thing for everyday use, except they were 2" longer than the original. The pretty english made rod was kept in a safe place in pristine condition while the copies got worn out in hard service. Most of the Cincinnati area in Hamilton County between the Great Miami River and the little Miami River was subdivided with the 2 inch longer rods and a surveyor's compass along with the baseline. Nobody got cheated out of his aliquot portions in the Ludlow Miami Purchase. (Israel Ludlow and Daniel Boone were contemporaries. Everybody has heard about Daniel Boone. Boone had a press agent and Ludlow didn't, so nobody has heard of Ludlow's adventures which put Boone to shame.)
I have heard of Gest Street in Cincinnati!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
MC if you want to shoot the messinger ( PDN ) I might be able to fire up the old B-17 in the back hanger. Could bomb him with bison chips.
Then again, I have no business complaining about or criticizing unusual or irregular survey measurements when that big burg to the south - Philadelphia - has long had it's own measure of a foot: 100 feet 3+/- inches (100.25 +/- ft.) per 100 feet U.S. Standard. See this webpage, about 2/3 of the way down, under the heading "Distance Standards" ( except mudchicken, who might have a heart attack if he sees this):
http://www.pobonline.com/articles/86637-city-of-philadelphia-regulators:
- Paul North.
Of course, I don't know, but they might work out an arrangement where the city keeps the real estate and sells or leases out the railroad.
If New Orleans PUBLIC railroad would be sold there would go any hope of a circular commuter rail around the city like NJ Riverline. Then there is the Waterfront Trolley and the land that they share
I didn't expect this much response about arpents. Actually, after my comment, I remembered that as late as the late 1950's, the arpent was still in informal use. I remember my cousin telling me how many arpents back from the bayou the farm he grew up on extended.
BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr Rods / perches (16.5 ft. in length, but for area 16.5' x 16.5' = 272.25 sq. ft., 160 per acre [43,560 ft.] ) are bad enough . . . but this "argent" thing would make my head hurt ! - Paul North. Is that a Louisiana Arpent or a Missouri Arpent?
Paul_D_North_Jr Rods / perches (16.5 ft. in length, but for area 16.5' x 16.5' = 272.25 sq. ft., 160 per acre [43,560 ft.] ) are bad enough . . . but this "argent" thing would make my head hurt ! - Paul North.
Rods / perches (16.5 ft. in length, but for area 16.5' x 16.5' = 272.25 sq. ft., 160 per acre [43,560 ft.] ) are bad enough . . . but this "argent" thing would make my head hurt !
Is that a Louisiana Arpent or a Missouri Arpent?
Louisiana. At least that's where the poster who brought up this Napoleonic Code measurement (Paul of Covington) says he's from.
Rods / perches (16.5 ft. in length, but for area 16.5' x 16.5' = 272.25 sq. ft., 160 per acre [43,560 ft.] ) are bad enough . . . but this "arpent"* thing would make my head hurt !
(was "argent", but I fixed it. - PDN)
Paul of Covington Paul_D_North_Jr Besides - that's the only state in the Union whose laws are based on French "civil law". I'm sure the usual physical laws of measurements in surveying still apply there - - Paul North. Yeah, we quit using arpents a while back.
Paul_D_North_Jr Besides - that's the only state in the Union whose laws are based on French "civil law". I'm sure the usual physical laws of measurements in surveying still apply there - - Paul North.
Besides - that's the only state in the Union whose laws are based on French "civil law". I'm sure the usual physical laws of measurements in surveying still apply there -
Yeah, we quit using arpents a while back.
Arpent From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search An arpent (French pronunciation: [aʁpɑ̃]) is a unit of length and a unit of area. It is a pre-metric French unit based on the Roman actus. It is used in Quebec as well as in some areas of the United States that were part of French Louisiana. Contents Definition Unit of length 1 arpent = SI units 58.471 m 5,847.1 cm US customary / Imperial units 63.945 yd 191.83 ft There were various standard arpents. The most common ones were of 180 French feet, used in French North America, and 220 French feet, used in Paris. 1 arpent = 180 French feet (of approximately 32 centimetres) = about 192 English feet = about 58.47 metres Unit of area Historically, in North America, 1 (square) arpent = 32,400 French square feet = about 3419 square metres In Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida, the official conversion is 1 arpent = 0.84628-acre (3,424.77365-square-metre)[1] In Arkansas and Missouri, the official conversion is 1 arpent = 0.8507-acre (3,442.66076-square-metre) square metres[citation needed] Arpents in U.S. land descriptions (Louisiana) In Louisiana, parcels of land known as arpent sections or French arpent land grants also pre-date the Public Land Survey System (PLSS), but are treated as PLSS sections. An arpent is a French measurement of approximately 192 feet (59 m), and a square arpent (also referred to as an arpent) is about 0.84 acres (3,400 m2). French arpent land divisions are long narrow parcels of land usually found along the navigable streams of southern Louisiana, and also found along major waterways in other areas. This system of land subdivision was begun by French settlers in the 18th century, according to typical French practice at the time and was continued by both the Spanish and by the American government after the acquisition of the Louisiana Purchase. A typical French arpent land division is 2 to 4 arpents wide along the river by 40 to 60 arpents deep, while the Spanish arpent land divisions tend to be 6 to 8 arpents wide by 40 arpents deep. This method of land division provided each land-owner with river frontage as well as land suitable for cultivation and habitation. These areas are given numbers just like standard sections, although the section numbers frequently exceed the normal upper limit of 36.
An arpent (French pronunciation: [aʁpɑ̃]) is a unit of length and a unit of area. It is a pre-metric French unit based on the Roman actus. It is used in Quebec as well as in some areas of the United States that were part of French Louisiana.
There were various standard arpents. The most common ones were of 180 French feet, used in French North America, and 220 French feet, used in Paris.
1 arpent = 180 French feet (of approximately 32 centimetres) = about 192 English feet = about 58.47 metres
In Louisiana, parcels of land known as arpent sections or French arpent land grants also pre-date the Public Land Survey System (PLSS), but are treated as PLSS sections. An arpent is a French measurement of approximately 192 feet (59 m), and a square arpent (also referred to as an arpent) is about 0.84 acres (3,400 m2).
French arpent land divisions are long narrow parcels of land usually found along the navigable streams of southern Louisiana, and also found along major waterways in other areas. This system of land subdivision was begun by French settlers in the 18th century, according to typical French practice at the time and was continued by both the Spanish and by the American government after the acquisition of the Louisiana Purchase. A typical French arpent land division is 2 to 4 arpents wide along the river by 40 to 60 arpents deep, while the Spanish arpent land divisions tend to be 6 to 8 arpents wide by 40 arpents deep.
This method of land division provided each land-owner with river frontage as well as land suitable for cultivation and habitation. These areas are given numbers just like standard sections, although the section numbers frequently exceed the normal upper limit of 36.
Paul_D_North_JrThe linked article says that one of Thomas Coleman's businesses - until last year - was "a rail line in New Jersey". Anybody know which one ?
My guess is that they are referring to the East Jersey Railroad Company in Bayonne NJ. Its part of the tank terminal company that the Coleman family sold recently. A reference: http://www.imtt.com/index.php?page=bayonne
The sale of the tank farm comany was for about $1 billion, so he probably has the ca$h and needs a hobby.
Well, I don't think the NOPBRR will be disposing of quite so much excess R-O-W and real estate in 'fire sale' mode as CR did . . .
Besides - that's the only state in the Union whose laws are based on French "civil law". I'm sure the usual physical laws of measurements in surveying still apply there - but I'm not so sure about laws regarding government grants of R-O-W, privately acquired easements, "conditional fees" limiting the use to railroad purposes, quit claims, adverse possession, encroachments, etc., etc. . . .
Pacific Harbor is also one that I had in mind as a potential 'model' for this.
Operated by the same people that own South Shore freight, Long Island RR freight and Louisville & Indiana. (Anacostia's tribe)
Validates PDN's comments above. (and no more CR's please. One was plenty. Let's keep the skeletons in one closet...)
I highly doubt that in this day and age the Class 1 railroads serving the city will get together to buy the Belt railroad.
I also think some of the concerns being expressed here about a potential purchaser may be unfounded. Look at the Pacific Harbor line at the Port of L.A, the company took over operations from a company,Harbor Belt Lines, controlled by the Class 1's serving the port. It is set up as a neutral switching railroad and from what I've read most customers in the port feel it has created a more level playing field rather than what previously existed.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Thanks, Paul of Covington for the 'referenced stories'. I have been a fan of things NOLA since I first went to College in 1962...Mardi Gras has been a favorite destination ( for Lots of reasons ). Back in 2005 I had a major College paper sabotaged by the events of that 2005 Hurricane season. A one semester paper went on into two semesters...
You are right, those two re-habed Pullmans sure got the NOPBR a lot of 'ink'. I would definitely agree that the 'property' would be worth much to any group of railroads in that area...My other point was the H.P.L. Bridge since its recent rehabilitation is a much more valuable asset thses days.
My feeling is that the political structure down there is now a much higher profile since 2005, and the politicians would like a lot less light on their 'doings'. Katrina, and its aftermath sure exposed some local political 'maneuvering'. Restructured with a streamlined management and a more interested ownership, the NOPBR would be a handsome asset, for owners and the area.
Paul of Covington The media at the time seemed to be obsessed with the expense of the "business" cars, but I think the most damaging thing he did was to drive away their biggest customer, BNSF. He greatly increased their rates, so BNSF contracted with NS to handle their through traffic and moved their port business to Houston. Here are some articles from that time that I got tired of wading through, but if anyone is interested... http://search.nola.com/n.+o+public+belt+rr/
The media at the time seemed to be obsessed with the expense of the "business" cars, but I think the most damaging thing he did was to drive away their biggest customer, BNSF. He greatly increased their rates, so BNSF contracted with NS to handle their through traffic and moved their port business to Houston. Here are some articles from that time that I got tired of wading through, but if anyone is interested...
http://search.nola.com/n.+o+public+belt+rr/
Which highlights the fact that there is no truly 'captive' customer. Where there is a will, they will develop a way
Sam, the NOPBRR has been cleaned up quite a bit since the articles you quoted. Bridger was sent to jail, all commissioners resigned and the board was replaced with a smaller one. I think Bridger made many improvements to the RR, though he also made a lot of improvements to himself. The media at the time seemed to be obsessed with the expense of the "business" cars, but I think the most damaging thing he did was to drive away their biggest customer, BNSF. He greatly increased their rates, so BNSF contracted with NS to handle their through traffic and moved their port business to Houston. Here are some articles from that time that I got tired of wading through, but if anyone is interested...
Paul of Covington The city of New Orleans is considering selling the New Orleans Public Belt RR after being approached with an offer. The NOPB serves the port of New Orleans with about 100 miles of track including the Huey P. Long bridge. http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/11327999-123/mayor-landrieu-floats-idea-of
The city of New Orleans is considering selling the New Orleans Public Belt RR after being approached with an offer. The NOPB serves the port of New Orleans with about 100 miles of track including the Huey P. Long bridge.
http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/11327999-123/mayor-landrieu-floats-idea-of
The problems with the NOPBRwy go back several years...In part Hurricane Katrina was responsible for some of it.. In the aftermath of that August 2005 event, NOLA has at times been awash in cash from Federal Government Programs and State funds trying to repair and upgrade the area. Back in 2010 there was a 'problem(s)' that arose with the NOPBR see linked @ http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/07/new_orleans_public_belt_railro.html
"New Orleans Public Belt Railroad spending gets scrutiny"
Meanwhile, records show rank-and-file staffers racked up $430,000 in overtime last year. The two biggest beneficiaries were a member of the bridge division who took in nearly $32,000 in overtime, bringing his total salary to about $80,000; and a transportation department worker who collected $24,000 in extra pay for a total salary of more than $88,000..."
Seems like current Mayor Mitch Landrieu want to dump a Commission and its problems onto Private Industry ? The Railroad and its Commission are partially autonomous from City Government, but must operate on its own revenues and gaet no taxmoney from City Government. THis link refers to the FBI's investigation of Mr. Bridger @ http://www.fbi.gov/neworleans/press-releases/2011/former-general-manager-of-new-orleans-public-belt-railroad-pleads-guilty-in-federal-court
With 100 plus miles of track and those customersd and its' major asset of the recently refurbished Huey P. Long Bridge. See link @ http://www.nopb.com/huey-p-long-bridge/
NOPBR would be quite an asset for one owner (see linked article by OP) or for a consortium of railraods to own. I would think that the NOPBR would be a terrific asset for the City of New Orleans, but its management and corporate structure would need quite an overhaul, and that would be most likely politically distasteful?
Paul_D_North_Jr I'll suggest instead one of the several shortline empires, again as a neutral switching road. - Paul North.
I'll suggest instead one of the several shortline empires, again as a neutral switching road.
Why not Conrail South ( or New Orleans )? Conrail certainly has the experience to operate with more than one RR.
PDN - Doesn't show up in the pocket guide or STB indexes.
" Would enable MOW to be comleted much faster using each RR's personel." - statement doesn't fly out here in the real world. PDN pretty well hit the nail on the head. Some wanna-be railroader would be buying trouble.
The linked article says that one of Thomas Coleman's businesses - until last year - was "a rail line in New Jersey". Anybody know which one ?
I'll suggest instead one of the several shortline empires, again as a neutral switching road. They have the experience in operations like that, and the financial resources to pull it off. Even if owned by a consortium of the Class I's, it would tend to be somewhat of an "orphan child".
I agree that combined ownership would be a good solution, in line with many other cities. I was concerned with the ownership being in private hands with essentially a monopoly on local transfers.
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