hmmm...about those Superliner passenger cars.........

[M636C]

Adrian,

I think you are confusing the ex GO transit GP40TC, which is on a longer underframe and has a square rear end, with the standard GP40 referred to above, which was just a freight locomotive fitted with HEP cables.

The GP40 TC (for "Toronto Commuter") was really the same as the later F40PH units fitted with a separate diesel alternator set for HEP use. When GO Transit bought the F59s, they sold the GP40TC to Amtrak. I saw one of them ,about ten years ago, running MARC commuter trains out of Washington DC, at a time when MARC were short of power.

Peter

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Dave:
Another lash-up for your consideration: I remember seeing television news footage of a grade crossing incident in northwest Indiana involving the Capitol Ltd and the power was a GP40TC-GP40 lash-up.
Paul

[Junctionfan]

What is the passenger capacity for the Superliner Coachs and the Coach/Baggage cars?

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

Dave:
Another lash-up for your consideration: I remember seeing television news footage of a grade crossing incident in northwest Indiana involving the Capitol Ltd and the power was a GP40TC-GP40 lash-up.
Paul

Paul, apologies for a tardy reply, (I've been away from a 'puter for 3 days..mostly gardening and landscaping at home...and happy with the results[:)]).

Did you happen to notice what livery did the GP40 have in the lash-up for the Capitol Ltd that was involved in the grade crossing incident?

Dave

[M636C]

Dave,

I think the only livery carried by the Amtrak GP40s was "Phase III", platinum mist with a black roof and trucks with three equal sized red, white and blue stripes. That is also the first livery carried by the GP40TC (and the only one I've seen on those units).

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

I think the only livery carried by the Amtrak GP40s was "Phase III", platinum mist with a black roof and trucks with three equal sized red, white and blue stripes. That is also the first livery carried by the GP40TC (and the only one I've seen on those units).

Peter

Thanks Peter. Does the term "Phase" just refer to the paint scheme, or other changes/upgrades as well?

Dave

[M636C]

The term "Phase" is used a lot by railfans in particular referring to changes with time. It is used a lot with EMD locomotives where minor changes occurred, and these terms are often used by model manufacturers. For example, late GP9s had two 48" fans instead of four 36" fans. I think this change was called "Phase III" but don't quote me without checking it!

The same progression is seen in Amtrak locomotive and car colour schemes.

Phase1 - Red Nose, Platinum Mist body, large "Pointless Arrow" symbol on the side of the loco. Cars had two wide red and blue window stripes with a narrow white stripe, and had "Pointless Arrows" at each end.

Phase2 - Both locomotives and cars had wide red and blue stripes with narrow white stripe, no "Pointless Arrows". Remainder of loco the same - Black roof, Platinum mist sides, Black trucks, pilots, and so on.

Phase 3 - Like Phase 2 but equal size Red/White/Blue stripes. AEM-7 electrics were basically red white and blue below the "waist" at this time and the P32-8BWH were as described elsewhere. AMD-103/P-42 had two variations of very broad red/white /blue stripes, which "faded out" towards the rear on the earlier units.

Phase 4 - Started off as a "NorthEast Direct" scheme with a broad blue stripe and multiple narrow red stripes underneath. Appeared on some P-42s from new and on Superliner II cars from new. AEM-7s looked much more normal, largely platinum mist with a lighter grey (not black) roof

Phase 5 - The "Acela" scheme with large blue patches on the locomotives and cars. I'm not sure I like it and am looking forward to Phase 6.

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

The term "Phase" is used a lot by railfans in particular referring to changes with time. It is used a lot with EMD locomotives where minor changes occurred, and these terms are often used by model manufacturers. For example, late GP9s had two 48" fans instead of four 36" fans. I think this change was called "Phase III" but don't quote me without checking it!

The same progression is seen in Amtrak locomotive and car colour schemes.

Phase1 - Red Nose, Platinum Mist body, large "Pointless Arrow" symbol on the side of the loco. Cars had two wide red and blue window stripes with a narrow white stripe, and had "Pointless Arrows" at each end.

Phase2 - Both locomotives and cars had wide red and blue stripes with narrow white stripe, no "Pointless Arrows". Remainder of loco the same - Black roof, Platinum mist sides, Black trucks, pilots, and so on.

Phase 3 - Like Phase 2 but equal size Red/White/Blue stripes. AEM-7 electrics were basically red white and blue below the "waist" at this time and the P32-8BWH were as described elsewhere. AMD-103/P-42 had two variations of very broad red/white /blue stripes, which "faded out" towards the rear on the earlier units.

Phase 4 - Started off as a "NorthEast Direct" scheme with a broad blue stripe and multiple narrow red stripes underneath. Appeared on some P-42s from new and on Superliner II cars from new. AEM-7s looked much more normal, largely platinum mist with a lighter grey (not black) roof

Phase 5 - The "Acela" scheme with large blue patches on the locomotives and cars. I'm not sure I like it and am looking forward to Phase 6.

Peter

Peter - that's been very helpful - I'm going to print that one off for reference...

Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark

With all of these sell outs, you'd think Amtrak would purchase/rent more sleepers! Without any doubt, Amtrak's capital budget is puny....thanks to Congress.....

Easier said than done. Coaches are hard enough to find, but where will these sleepers come from. No U.S. manufacturer has made any for decades. Those that did are out of business now in large measure. Where could they even buy them. Renting is out of the question, the cars don't exist.

LC

[M636C]

Oops,

I checked some photos! In the Amtrak "Phase IV" scheme the thin red stripes are underneath the blue - sorry.

Peter

[Anonymous]

The B32-8WH's were used on the former Toronto-Chicago International and are still used in California, but they are painted for Amtrak California.
Their current numbers are:
502-519 (AMTK)
and
2051-2052 (Amtrak California)

The reason B32-8WH's were used into Canada is that VIA's crews were not yet trained to operate P42's as VIA didn't have any yet. Once VIA got P42's in 2001, Amtrak ran P42's on the route.

[M636C]

Nobody seems to have sprung the answer to the initial question about the diaphragm just yet - any clues out there?

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Nobody seems to have sprung the answer to the initial question about the diaphragm just yet - any clues out there?

Peter

Peter, thanks for reminding folk about my original Q. Jay (Jeaton) said he was going to take a trip on the South West Chief - Chicago to Albuquerque and return. He said that he would have bit of a look - hopefully he'll get back to us soon on what he saw.
(And how he enjoyed the trip on the SW Chief too....[;)] )

Dave

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

What is the passenger capacity for the Superliner Coachs and the Coach/Baggage cars?

Does anybody know?

[M636C]

Andrew,

Sorry, I'm not trying to run an "Ignore A Canadian" day. It took me a while to find a good reference.

These are figures for Superliner 1 series cars;

31000 -31047 78 seat Coach Baggage
32000 - 32069 Sleeper 14 Economy Room,1 Family Room, 6 Deluxe Room.
33000 - 33024 Lounge Cafe
34000 - 34101 77 seat Coach (7 cars with lower deck snack bar, 62 seats)
38000 - 38038 Dining Car

I'll have to check further for Superliner II cars.

No, I don't know why the Coach Baggage has more seats than the Coach, except that the seat spacing must be smaller.

Peter

[Anonymous]

The S1 seat pitch for the coach bags is considerably tighter than the full coaches, and would most approximate day coach and not overnight seat pitch.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dave!!

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

The S1 seat pitch for the coach bags is considerably tighter than the full coaches, and would most approximate day coach and not overnight seat pitch.

An interesting point drephpe. Tight seat pitches are bad news for taller people! Yuk!

[Kozzie]

dreprphe! I missed your salutation post because I was posting too! heh heh

I guess it's Good Afternoon for you? (or maybe evening...)

[Kozzie]

Hi to Peter too!

[Anonymous]

Dave--

I went back and looked at a lot of photos of S1 & S2 cars to refresh my memory, and I have found none with a full-height diaphragm. The high floor cars have a standard size high diaphragm and the xitions have one high and one low. There may be an access door on the end beneath the diaphragm--I'm still checking on this but I'm out of town. However, there is no crew crawl space between cars to my knowledge.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

Dave--

I went back and looked at a lot of photos of S1 & S2 cars to refresh my memory, and I have found none with a full-height diaphragm. The high floor cars have a standard size high diaphragm and the xitions have one high and one low. There may be an access door on the end beneath the diaphragm--I'm still checking on this but I'm out of town. However, there is no crew crawl space between cars to my knowledge.

Thanks for your help drephpe [;)][:)] - it is hard to see in the photo that I was looking at....

[M636C]

Dave,

I pulled out my copy of "Model Railroader" for November 1982, which has plans for all Superliner I cars (and might be worth buying if it is still available as a back issue).
Pages 86-97 cover the plans and photos. On page 93 there is a clear end-on photo that shows that the structural collision posts on the end of the body are effectively in line with the diaphragm and depending on the lighting and dirt buildup, these could look like an extension of the diaphragm down to the coupler level. (I still haven't seen the November issue, of course).

The MR plans show only 62 seats on the upper deck of Coach Baggage cars, too but this might be an error.

As a small aside on "short" coach models, on page 128 of that issue of MR a "HO 75' Budd Coach" was offered by Model Power, lettered for Amtrak, CP and CN (for $8-98). It is in fact, not a "short" model but a scale length model of an Australian "Indian Pacific" BRJ class sleeping car, painted for the roads in question. There is always a prototype for anything!

Peter

[M636C]

Dave,

See what happens when you are posting!

The MR end view photo shows a "Loco MU style" jumper cable in the space below the high level diaphragm (as well as the power (?) cables either side), and a small bolted access panel about the size of the window in the end door. There is a light cross beam half way up the space, just below the jumper sockets.

Peter

[Kozzie]

Peter - the regular freight Nov '04 editions of Trains Mag must be appearing on our newsstands soon. I'm keen to know what you think...

Dave

[M636C]

Dave,

The November "Trains" has appeared on the Newsagent shelves and I bought my copy an hour ago!

Now, to the upper photo on page 13, the Coast Starlight at San Luis Obispo. The light is high and from the rear of the train (always is there when I've tried to photograph the locomotives).

What you are seeing is the diaphragm in its usual high location, and the stainless steel collision posts extending below it. The shape of the shadow in this particular shot gives the impression that they are the same depth, which is not the case. The diaphagn rubbing plate is black and not as wide as the silver grey collision posts below them. The socket for the jumper cable I mentioned in an earlier post is just visible above a cross brace between the two collision posts.

As an aside, the lower photo of the"Texas Eagle" shows a transition sleeper coupled to an Amfleet car - no high level diaphragm is visible, as it would be, in this photo.

The VIA Renaissance article in the November issue looks good - strange nobody's commented on that!

Peter

[UPTRAIN]

Yeah, the lower diaphrams are crew sleepers and connect with the baggage cars on the head end...most of the time here on the Texas Eagle and City of New Orleans. Sometimes they throw an Amfleet onto the rear without the low diaphram. They are of course only entered through the doors on the side of the car when not coupled to low level cars of their own kind.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

The November "Trains" has appeared on the Newsagent shelves and I bought my copy an hour ago!

Now, to the upper photo on page 13, the Coast Starlight at San Luis Obispo. The light is high and from the rear of the train (always is there when I've tried to photograph the locomotives).

What you are seeing is the diaphragm in its usual high location, and the stainless steel collision posts extending below it. The shape of the shadow in this particular shot gives the impression that they are the same depth, which is not the case. The diaphagn rubbing plate is black and not as wide as the silver grey collision posts below them. The socket for the jumper cable I mentioned in an earlier post is just visible above a cross brace between the two collision posts.

As an aside, the lower photo of the"Texas Eagle" shows a transition sleeper coupled to an Amfleet car - no high level diaphragm is visible, as it would be, in this photo.

The VIA Renaissance article in the November issue looks good - strange nobody's commented on that!

Peter

Peter - thanks for your response - I hope others have found this thread informative and interesting.

Dave

[mudchicken]

Whilst waiting for somebody [|)][|)][|)] from the platform on the platform at La Junta, had a look at #4's consist and it jibes with M636's comments. The only lower connection is the transition car/ crew dorm that connects to the baggage cars. It's been a long time since I've seen the old Santa Fe El Capitan high level cars that inspired the Superliners, but I think they are the same. I read somewhere that Amthrax retired the El Cap cars, but never heard their fate. (Sold, sitting at Beech Grove or scrapped?)....

For the unitiated, the El Cap cars look similar to the Superliners, are just slightly shorter in height and have corrugated metal sides instead of smooth metal sides.

mc

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Some of the ex-ATSF hi-levels have been assigned to the Heartland Flyer. Some of the step-down coaches were rebuilt to dormitory-coaches and are still in service.