Russia plans to build a new high speed railway, with trains that would speed from Moscow to Beijing in just 48 hours.
At the moment, it takes about seven days to commute between the two cities and the route requires changes.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-builds-moscow-to-beijing-high-speed-train-2014-12#ixzz3NriZSxKW
In the mean time, here in the US, HSR is going.....going......gone......http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/us/delays-persist-for-us-high-speed-rail.html?_r=0
How are they going to pay for it? They are right next to going into a recession.
Norm
There has been news coming out of China that a Chinese company is funding most of this project.
And this is apparantly a high speed freight line? From the article>>> "Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes, which are all more than keen to speed up the shipping of their vehicles from China to Europe". How much do you suppose it will add to the shiping cost of a Chinese made () BMW to shave 12 days off the transit time to Europe?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
First, this line ends in Moscow and doesn't go directly to western Europe. Goods going west, will have to be transloaded onto regular trains in Moscow which will be an extra cost. Also, don't forgot about the gauge break that will have to occur once the goods reach eastern Europe. More costs incurred!
Second, any money an importer would save in reducing overhead inventory will be more than cancelled out in the extra costs for using high speed rail. If the merchandise is time sensitive enough, it will be airfreighted. Otherwise, it makes sense to ship by ocean (least expensive) or use the existing rail links.
As cool as this may sound, this seems to be something that will start with a lot grand pronouncements and wind up quietly never seriously getting off the ground. Think Los Angeles to Las Vegas HSR.
Murphy SidingI don't know what HSR rail lines would cost to build, but if it was $10 million per mile, this 4340 mile line would run about $43 billion.
Murphy S. My guess is that $43 B would not necessarily be a 'mountain to climb' for a combined effort with the Chinese(only if America would default on its debt(?) and the Russians; in a money is no object race to stick it in the eyes of the United States and its allies, in Europe. Remember the "Cold War", and its spending binges to keep up with the rest of theFree Workd? That did kind of keep them dancing on a knife's edge of insolvency for years.
They should have no problems with the route, and its construction. They do not have the time consuming problems of EIS or Construction ethics(?). Personally, I would not want to be on the maiden trips...Remeber the Titanic?
I have to wonder just what practical use it would be. Sounds like a bit of grandstanding to me.
Norm48327 How are they going to pay for it? They are right next to going into a recession.
This hasn't stopped California.
Firelock76I have to wonder just what practical use it would be.
Sputnik had it's naysayers as well.
Putin could fund it out of his graft and corruption petty cash fund!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
zardoz Russia plans to build a new high speed railway, with trains that would speed from Moscow to Beijing in just 48 hours. At the moment, it takes about seven days to commute between the two cities and the route requires changes. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-builds-moscow-to-beijing-high-speed-train-2014-12#ixzz3NriZSxKW In the mean time, here in the US, HSR is going.....going......gone......http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/us/delays-persist-for-us-high-speed-rail.html?_r=0
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
HSR is the good news. The bad news is, the end points are Peking and Moscow.
schlimmLook to the tone of the responses here if you want to see the difference in attitude between HSR elsewhere i the world and a lack of it here.
Amen.
Convicted One Firelock76 I have to wonder just what practical use it would be. Sputnik had it's naysayers as well.
Firelock76 I have to wonder just what practical use it would be.
schlimm zardoz Russia plans to build a new high speed railway, with trains that would speed from Moscow to Beijing in just 48 hours. At the moment, it takes about seven days to commute between the two cities and the route requires changes. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-builds-moscow-to-beijing-high-speed-train-2014-12#ixzz3NriZSxKW In the mean time, here in the US, HSR is going.....going......gone......http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/us/delays-persist-for-us-high-speed-rail.html?_r=0 Look to the tone of the responses here if you want to see the difference in attitude between HSR elsewhere in the world and a lack of it here.
schlimm Look to the tone of the responses here if you want to see the difference in attitude between HSR elsewhere in the world and a lack of it here.
Schlimm, I think the big difference is, here the people have a say in plans for HSR that will cost a lot of their taxpayer dollars; in China and Russia, nyet.
dakotafred schlimm zardoz Russia plans to build a new high speed railway, with trains that would speed from Moscow to Beijing in just 48 hours. At the moment, it takes about seven days to commute between the two cities and the route requires changes. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-builds-moscow-to-beijing-high-speed-train-2014-12#ixzz3NriZSxKW In the mean time, here in the US, HSR is going.....going......gone......http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/us/delays-persist-for-us-high-speed-rail.html?_r=0 Look to the tone of the responses here if you want to see the difference in attitude between HSR elsewhere in the world and a lack of it here. Schlimm, I think the big difference is, here the people have a say; in China and Russia, nyet.
Schlimm, I think the big difference is, here the people have a say; in China and Russia, nyet.
Yes, that is true of us. It is also true that the people of many/most nations who have or are building/expanding HSR also have free choices. The problem I have with this is this. Trains forum is supposed to be a site about trains, for people who are interested in trains. Yet the topic of HSR mostly meets wth naysaying and/or "yes, buts." Somehow, many folks here like freight trains and the history railroading, as do I, but seem less than enthusiastic about the future, which clearly should include HSR.
schlimm The problem I have with this is this. Trains forum is supposed to be a site about trains, for people who are interested in trains. Yet the topic of HSR mostly meets wth naysaying and/or "yes, buts." Somehow, many folks here like freight trains and the history railroading, as do I, but seem less than enthusiastic about the future, which clearly should include HSR.
Isn't it true that, here, the alternatives to rail -- passenger and freight -- have been better developed for 50 years, and the niche remaining for rail is correspondingly less? If there were a 4-lane highway between Peking and Moscow, I'll bet there would be no talk of HSR.
schlimmYes, that is true of us. It is also true that the people of many/most nations who have or are building/expanding HSR also have free choices. The problem I have with this is this. Trains forum is supposed to be a site about trains, for people who are interested in trains. Yet the topic of HSR mostly meets wth naysaying and/or "yes, buts." Somehow, many folks here like freight trains and the history railroading, as do I, but seem less than enthusiastic about the future, which clearly should include HSR
So Schlimm is your solution that only those who share your fondness for HSR should be allowed to post here?
Mac
PNWRMNM schlimm Yes, that is true of us. It is also true that the people of many/most nations who have or are building/expanding HSR also have free choices. The problem I have with this is this. Trains forum is supposed to be a site about trains, for people who are interested in trains. Yet the topic of HSR mostly meets wth naysaying and/or "yes, buts." Somehow, many folks here like freight trains and the history railroading, as do I, but seem less than enthusiastic about the future, which clearly should include HSR So Schlimm is your solution that only those who share your fondness for HSR should be allowed to post here? Mac
schlimm Yes, that is true of us. It is also true that the people of many/most nations who have or are building/expanding HSR also have free choices. The problem I have with this is this. Trains forum is supposed to be a site about trains, for people who are interested in trains. Yet the topic of HSR mostly meets wth naysaying and/or "yes, buts." Somehow, many folks here like freight trains and the history railroading, as do I, but seem less than enthusiastic about the future, which clearly should include HSR
No. Of coure not. Don't try putting words in other's mouths as your way of making some point. It is simply disappointing that so few here support HSR, much less have any enthusiasm for it.
I support HSR in markets where it works, 300-500 mile corridors. This is not it. I expect that airlines will have the majority of the passengers and even fast freight. There probably isn't much of the latter. The economics of super-fast freight are not compelling (Super C?) and the benefits are likely to be obtained by putting in a parallel standard gauge line at a fraction of the cost. I view this as similar to the proposed HSR Bering Straight tunnel proposed a few months ago.
dakotafred If there were a 4-lane highway between Peking and Moscow, I'll bet there would be no talk of HSR.
I'll presume this is seriously said. Have you looked at the topography between Peking and Moscow? At the likelihood of supplying support infrastructure for road vehicles traveling that route? At the time it would take to make the trip... and the condition of anyone driving it within a reasonable period of time?
Part of the 'reason' behind making a HSR route between the two Communist capitals is that it can be electrified, and not subject to vagaries of fossil-fuel supply and logistics for aircraft or motor vehicles. I would presume that some fairly large amount of traffic between Europe and China is envisioned for the service, especially if 'mobile office' functionality or good accommodations can be provided extensively on the trains en route (making the two-day trip time far less onerous).
Might easily be a sufficient market for 'two-day delivery' express packages too, considering that the marginal cost of their carriage would be minuscule...
Be interesting to see how they propose to keep this line open in poor weather!
schlimmNo. Of coure not. Don't try putting words in other's mouths as your way of making some point. It is simply disappointing that so few here support HSR, much less have any enthusiasm for it.
I support HSR but lets be realistic here:
1. Russia is so paranoid of a Chinese invasion it built the BAM railway at a cost of several Billion Dollars.
2. Russia has dwindling funds right now and has a long record of favoring weapons programs over public infrastructure projects. They had several chances this last decade to develop and invest in a first class road and interstate system but choose otherwise.
3. I could be wrong on this but I do not think the track gauges or track standards are the same between Russia and China which would also add cost to this project and inhibit speed unless an entirely new line was built.
4. No love lost on the Chinese side for Russia and even if they wanted to invest in Russia. Highly unlikely it would be a mega project of this size until they had completed smaller ones with promising returns.
5. Seen this before from the Kremlin, in 2010-2011 they stated they would release a two sided IPhone that would capture the market share held currently by Apple. Shortly after that they produced a prototype of a new Lada car that would take the West by storm and eat into VW's market share..........niether happened and the stories were really for domestic consumption to allow for Putins friends to embezzle even more money from the state treasury while offering a dream of hope to the average Russian citizen. The pipe dreams for domestic consumption will end soon with the crashing Russian economy.
Wizlish I'll presume this is seriously said. Have you looked at the topography between Peking and Moscow? ... Part of the 'reason' behind making a HSR route between the two Communist capitals
I'll presume this is seriously said. Have you looked at the topography between Peking and Moscow? ...
Part of the 'reason' behind making a HSR route between the two Communist capitals
I haven't looked much at that topography. Assuming you have, can you tell us how it differs from the topography between Boston and Los Angeles?
Although many might not point to Russia as a shining example of capitalism at its best, I don't think we're supposed to consider it to have a communist economy.
Patrick Boylan
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In 1965, while attending Yale University, Fred Smith wrote an economics paper exploring how goods were transported in the United States. At the time, shippers focused on transporting large packages across the United States by truck or inside passenger airplanes. Smith thought that a company carrying small, essential items by plane could be a more efficient transporter than existing companies. Smith wrote the paper at the last minute and did not go into details about how to actually run such a company. His professor gave him a "C" for the work.
Ater all, how big could the market be that would pay that much for over night, when there were already much cheaper alternatives that only took a couple of days...
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Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
gardendance Wizlish I'll presume this is seriously said. Have you looked at the topography between Peking and Moscow? ... Part of the 'reason' behind making a HSR route between the two Communist capitals I haven't looked much at that topography. Assuming you have, can you tell us how it differs from the topography between Boston and Los Angeles?
Well, you could start with there being about half again as much of it (under 3000 mi. vs 4340). Here is a topo map you can examine. Note that the route traverses Siberia, and then Outer Mongolia. Climate considerably worse most of the year in this area of the Asian continent than in the part of the United States you would traverse. It's not so much that there are features significantly worse than, say, the crossing of the Rockies via the Eisenhower tunnel as it is that there are relatively more of them.
Or government either. I have no idea what made me throw that in.
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