Trains.com

Do the dispatchers get out of the control room and tour the rail system?

7853 views
39 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Vicksburg, Michigan
  • 2,303 posts
Do the dispatchers get out of the control room and tour the rail system?
Posted by Andrew Falconer on Monday, December 29, 2014 6:20 PM

The dispatchers are often controlling the trains in an abstract and symbolic manner on video screens.

They have to relate the symbols to real objects, places, and people in their minds.

 

Do the dispatchers get out of the control room and tour the rail system? 

Andrew

Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Monday, December 29, 2014 7:44 PM

Even if they did, it would be hard for them to master the vast geography of the territory they control.

In a Trains piece, Doyle McCormack (sp.), the PA restorer, told of his dispatcher father having to go out on the line once a year. And that was to stay qualified on his 100-mile district!

Today, a locomotive-engineer friend complains of Texas-based dispatchers often doing things like putting his coal train in the hole at the bottom of the worst hill on the division. We can be reasonably sure the dispatcher isn't stupid ... but he IS a thousand miles removed from my friend's train in North Dakota!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Vicksburg, Michigan
  • 2,303 posts
Posted by Andrew Falconer on Monday, December 29, 2014 7:54 PM

The dispatcher's view on the computer monitors would be enhanced by topographical maps made from satellite gathered measurments and images.

Andrew

Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 29, 2014 8:02 PM

dakotafred

Even if they did, it would be hard for them to master the vast geography of the territory they control.

In a Trains piece, Doyle McCormack (sp.), the PA restorer, told of his dispatcher father having to go out on the line once a year. And that was to stay qualified on his 100-mile district!

Today, a locomotive-engineer friend complains of Texas-based dispatchers often doing things like putting his coal train in the hole at the bottom of the worst hill on the division. We can be reasonably sure the dispatcher isn't stupid ... but he IS a thousand miles removed from my friend's train in North Dakota!

 

I have long had the impression that the DS (or, Delayer) had to know the topography of the area of his responsibility. Pity the man who has to work five different areas during his work week--I assume that each DS works five 8 hour shifts a week; it would take four DS's, each working 5 shifts--plus one who moves around from area to area to provide 24/7 coverage.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Monday, December 29, 2014 8:29 PM

Andrew Falconer

The dispatcher's view on the computer monitors would be enhanced by topographical maps made from satellite gathered measurments and images.

Why didn't you say so in your original post? Maybe dispatchers don't have to get out of their bunkers anymore.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 29, 2014 8:49 PM

Current ATDA contract on my carrier does not permit Relief jobs covering more than one desk (territory).  The Tag Day (unfilled rest day) is covered from the extra list.

Despite road knowledge 'S..T Happens' and mistakes get caused by a bad decision that was made 4 hours earlier and was unable to be rectified by unfolding events.

Successful Dispatching is all about VISION.  The ability to know enough about the operations that will be happening over the next 6 to 8 hours, and the ability to plan for those movements to not be in conflict with each other.  Knowing the length, tonnage, power and HOS times for each train on his territory and where each train can fit on sidings on single track territories as well as the consequences of stopping at train at those sidings (grades for getting started as well as grade crossings in the siding). 

Trains have specific work they are expected to accomplish - pickups, set offs, crew changes, yarding in a terminal, moving to a different subdivision, passenger operations, station stops - etc. etc. etc.  In most of these actions the train doing the work must be on a specific track at a specific location to accomplish its task.  Trains may be prevented from doing their normal 'work' because the yard or terminal is not ready for their move - maybe for 10 minutes - maybe for an hour - maybe for 4 hours - maybe for more than 12 hours - the circumstance are constantly changing.

The simple act of lining signals is the least of the Dispatchers concerns.  Handling 'mandatory directives' with train crews and MofW personnel which require transmission of the directive to the field personnel in a specified form as well as the field personnel repeating the directive they have copied in the exact form it was transmitted - this applies to any 'train message' that needs to be transmitted to trains (Slow orders, weather orders, Annulment of orders the trains already hold and anything else that a train must be formally notified of).

 

Any idiot can line signals - a Train Dispatcher knows when NOT to line signals.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Monday, December 29, 2014 9:37 PM

I drive I-40 between Williams, AZ and Albuquerque several times a year and have my scanner turned on to listen to the BNSF operations which parallell the highway. Most of you know this is double track CTC with 50 MPH x-overs about every 10 miles and it has Amtraks 3 and 4 to mix with the BNSF's 100 +- trains each day. I am amazed at how well the crews and the DS's make this work.

There is a DS assigned to each: Belen-Gallup; Gallup-Winslow; Winsolw-Seligman and Seligman-Needles. The very polite communication which occurs indicates that these people have become accquainted and respect each other.

Yes, there are anomolies where the s... encounters the fan; and when the crews have to be picked up because of HOS, but sometimes trains are stopped, crews exchanged and everything keeps going. 

If any of you have the opportunity to listen as you follow the Transcon on I-40 I recommend this for your entertainment.  

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,019 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 29, 2014 11:13 PM

Hiccups that give DSs ulcers - a portion of the CSX Chicago Line turned into a parking lot, at least for a little while, when a train suffered either an unintended emergency application or got tagged by the defect detector (I missed which it was), which not only delayed the train while it was inspected, but also caused the crew to run out of time, so the train got parked a little further down the line.  On the main.

Then a train that had apparently been hung up behind the first had it's lead loco quit, which threatened to lengthen the parking lot.  They got that one started again.

The line has plenty of crossovers, but at oh-dark-thirty, there's a lot of traffic on the line, too, so I now understand why at least one of the DSs on that section keeps his head shaved...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,644 posts
Posted by Wizlish on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:08 AM

tree68
The line has plenty of crossovers, but at oh-dark-thirty, there's a lot of traffic on the line, too, so I now understand why at least one of the DSs on that section keeps his head shaved...

What makes you think he shaves it to make it look that way... ?

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:15 AM

Wizlish

 

 
tree68
The line has plenty of crossovers, but at oh-dark-thirty, there's a lot of traffic on the line, too, so I now understand why at least one of the DSs on that section keeps his head shaved...

 

What makes you think he shaves it to make it look that way... ?

 

  Ooh!  Ooh!  Pick me!   I think I know this one!  He shaves his head so he doesn't pull his hair out?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,644 posts
Posted by Wizlish on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:32 AM

Murphy Siding
Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I think I know this one! He shaves his head so he doesn't pull his hair out?

No, he pulled it out so completely he doesn't have to shave it 'pre-emptively'.  And what little grows in gets pulled out before it can 'show'...

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:36 PM

Having been involved in aviation for over thirty years I am more familiar with air traffic control but presume "rail traffic control" is decidedly paralell. As Balt says, if you don't plan ahead, the hole you're digging keeps getting deeper.

Norm


  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:48 PM

Norm48327

Having been involved in aviation for over thirty years I am more familiar with air traffic control but presume "rail traffic control" is decidedly paralell. As Balt says, if you don't plan ahead, the hole you're digging keeps getting deeper.

 

The difference is in many cases the ATC can change the dimensions of the 'playing field' by working in another flight level.  In railroading - the playing field and resources you start with are all the ones you have to play with  - and those resources can fail creating additional problems.

But PLAN is a four letter word the neither discipline can do without - not only for the original plan - but the plans you have to be reviewing in your head for your response when something in Plan A fails and Plan B fails etc. etc.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,900 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:15 PM

dakotafred
 
Andrew Falconer

The dispatcher's view on the computer monitors would be enhanced by topographical maps made from satellite gathered measurments and images.

 

 

Why didn't you say so in your original post? Maybe dispatchers don't have to get out of their bunkers anymore.

 

While I'm sure they have track and grade profiles available, I don't think they are displayed on the "working" screens.  Most of our crew change locations now have displays showing the dispatcher's screens.  We can see where trains are and what the dispatcher is doing.  They have a lot, but not all, of the same detail the dispatcher has.

They are not to scale.  In one spot, at junction points for example, the screen might show 1 or 2 miles in 6 inches.  In another there might be 10 or 15 miles packed into 6 inches.  Just depends on how many control points and their individual complexity required to be displayed.

Jeff  

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
Posted by caldreamer on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:44 PM

I worked for 45 years in th information technology industry   When I was a computer operator, I had situation ranging from 1 to 5 programs abruptly ending at the same time to a powe failure that brought the entire data center down.  All you can do is take a deep breath and let your training take over and solve the problems.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:07 PM

Dispatchers may also have access to track geometry car video which shows a similar view to a train traveling down the track, often available in both directions.  Some newer video is similar to "street view" where the viewer can scan 360 degrees around the area.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:23 PM

dakotafred
 
Andrew Falconer

The dispatcher's view on the computer monitors would be enhanced by topographical maps made from satellite gathered measurments and images.

 

 

Why didn't you say so in your original post? Maybe dispatchers don't have to get out of their bunkers anymore.

 

I believe I owe Andrew an apology for misreading his post. He seems to be saying it would be DESIRABLE for dispatchers to have these maps, not that they have them already. Sorry, sir.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,283 posts
Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 8:51 PM

Andrew Falconer

The dispatcher's view on the computer monitors would be enhanced by topographical maps made from satellite gathered measurments and images.

 

 

Are you speaking from experience, or just guessing?

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 8:59 PM

Dispatchers can't be exposed to sunlight, get wet, and don't feed them after midnight.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,103 posts
Posted by ValleyX on Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:57 PM

I can't speak for now but I know that dispatchers used to ride some of the territories when they'd let them.  Frequently, we'd hear that they'd request to ride but were told that they couldn't spare the manpower for them to be out of the office.  Our universal gripe was that they'd always ride the fastest trains instead of what we thought they should ride, the trains that took the worst beatings across the road, for a look at what we thought was "real life".  

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,900 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, January 1, 2015 1:29 AM

ValleyX

I can't speak for now but I know that dispatchers used to ride some of the territories when they'd let them.  Frequently, we'd hear that they'd request to ride but were told that they couldn't spare the manpower for them to be out of the office.  Our universal gripe was that they'd always ride the fastest trains instead of what we thought they should ride, the trains that took the worst beatings across the road, for a look at what we thought was "real life".  

 

That sounds familiar.

I did have a student dispatcher ride with me last year.  His plan was to ride with us from Fremont to Missouri Valley on the Omaha Sub, then catch a westbound to ride over the Blair Sub.  That plan would've worked too, if it hadn't taken us 8 hours to get to Mo Valley.

At least he got to see how it is when things go wrong.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, January 1, 2015 1:41 AM

UP & CSX already have UP's PMV technology available to them. The ATSF side of BNSF has had Geometry Car (#85) video available to them since since 1986. Took until 2003 for the CPU computer technology to catch up.

Historically, railroads have had more computer power than most other industry in this country. The challenge is channeling the information data flow to do the most economic good.
(There still are plenty of Luddites out there that think railroading is a dying industry.)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, January 1, 2015 10:10 AM

mudchicken

UP & CSX already have UP's PMV technology available to them. The ATSF side of BNSF has had Geometry Car (#85) video available to them since since 1986. Took until 2003 for the CPU computer technology to catch up.

Historically, railroads have had more computer power than most other industry in this country. The challenge is channeling the information data flow to do the most economic good.
(There still are plenty of Luddites out there that think railroading is a dying industry.)

 

And, the Luddites do whatever they can to throw their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery.

Johnny

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Thursday, January 1, 2015 10:59 AM

Deggesty
And, the Luddites do whatever they can to throw their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery.

 

Would that be consodered sabotage?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, January 1, 2015 11:15 AM

zugmann
 
Deggesty
And, the Luddites do whatever they can to throw their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery.

 

 

Would that be consodered sabotage?

 

Ah, you found the origin of the word!

Johnny

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 1, 2015 11:17 AM

zugmann
Deggesty
And, the Luddites do whatever they can to throw their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery.

Would that be consodered sabotage?

 

You are correct Zug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot_%28shoe%29

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, January 1, 2015 11:19 AM

mudchicken
[snipped - PDN] . . . (There still are plenty of Luddites out there that think railroading is a dying industry.)

Good !  Less competition for those of us who know differently.

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 1,097 posts
Posted by Buslist on Thursday, January 1, 2015 7:34 PM

Wizlish

 

 
Murphy Siding
Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I think I know this one! He shaves his head so he doesn't pull his hair out?

 

No, he pulled it out so completely he doesn't have to shave it 'pre-emptively'.  And what little grows in gets pulled out before it can 'show'...

 

If it's the one I know its hereditary, you should have seen both his grandfathers.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:58 AM

BaltACD
[snipped - PDN] . . . In railroading - the playing field and resources you start with are all the ones you have to play with  - and those resources can fail creating additional problems.

But PLAN is a four letter word the neither discipline can do without - not only for the original plan - but the plans you have to be reviewing in your head for your response when something in Plan A fails and Plan B fails etc. etc.

A really good fictional short story which illustrates the value of "knowing the territory" is "A Little Action" by Harold Titus, apparently first published Jan. 18, 1936 in The Saturday Evening Post:

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/short-stories/18339547/little-action 

 It also included in the anthology Open Throttle:

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9338299W/Open_Throttle 

which I also referenced in more detail over in the "Required Railroad Reading" thread (middle of Page 2): http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/242552.aspx?page=2     

The story - as I recall it - is mainly about trying to get a Boy Scout special passenger train over a division despite a myriad of problems that crop up.  There are several times where it says to the effect of "In his mind, he was there with the crew, feeling the heat of the sun and sweating amid the dust, hearing the whistle of the approaching special", etc.  At the end of the day, he goes home after a 12-hour shift and his wife asks him how his day was, and he replies that it was pretty ordinary.  She opens his lunchbox and says, "Why, you didn't even touch this nice lunch I prepared for you !".  Which must have happened pretty often, because he was described as a thin man, with balding hair . . .

- Paul North.     

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Vicksburg, Michigan
  • 2,303 posts
Posted by Andrew Falconer on Sunday, January 4, 2015 7:28 PM

mudchicken

UP & CSX already have UP's PMV technology available to them. The ATSF side of BNSF has had Geometry Car (#85) video available to them since since 1986. Took until 2003 for the CPU computer technology to catch up.

Historically, railroads have had more computer power than most other industry in this country. The challenge is channeling the information data flow to do the most economic good.
(There still are plenty of Luddites out there that think railroading is a dying industry.)

 

 

That is something that nobody talks about regularly in all the Public Relations videos, brochures and websites. Thank you.

Andrew

Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy