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DST/CDT

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DST/CDT
Posted by Mookie on Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:45 PM

Where I live is now back on CDT, so how did the railroad deal with the changeover? 

Road crews, yard crews, MOW et al - are these all done with timeslips?  I am sure after all these years of changing back and forth, they must have it down to a science.  (I, unfortunately, do not!)

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:01 PM

When I worked on a shift containing the extra hour, I'd submit the claim for the extra hour.  I don't remember if I ever did this under the UP's computerized tie-up process, but I never had any problems with it.

One still had to pay attention to assure that one didn't run afoul of the hours-of-service laws.  

Going the other way, for us yard folks, it was generally not a problem to get a day's pay for seven hours' work.  Some yard jobs got better quits than that on a normal day, so those of us who routinely put in eight hours a day appreciated the shorter day.

Carl

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Posted by edblysard on Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:21 PM
Here at the PTRA, we claim the actual required 8 hours, regardless of what the clock shows,  so if you happen to go on duty just  before the time change, you still only get to claim the 8 hour shift, and any subsequently works overtime, based on the actual time worked.
The basis for this is that while we may “lose” an hour when the clocks are set back is offset by the fact that we gain an hour when they are set forward, so while you might argue that you “lost” an hour of off duty time, you gain it back also and that while you may work an extra hour by the clock time when it is set back, you actually only worked a true given number of hours, and you will gain that hour back when the clocks move forward again.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 3, 2014 9:25 AM

How does this work with track warrants/Form Ds? Let's say you get a form with a Time Effective of 0130. You leave the yard and head onto the main line as authorized by Line 2. At 0200 the clock changes back to 0100, and suddenly your D hasn't gone into effect yet. How do railroads handle this?

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 3, 2014 11:10 AM

edblysard
Here at the PTRA, we claim the actual required 8 hours, regardless of what the clock shows,  so if you happen to go on duty just  before the time change, you still only get to claim the 8 hour shift, and any subsequently works overtime, based on the actual time worked.
The basis for this is that while we may “lose” an hour when the clocks are set back is offset by the fact that we gain an hour when they are set forward, so while you might argue that you “lost” an hour of off duty time, you gain it back also and that while you may work an extra hour by the clock time when it is set back, you actually only worked a true given number of hours, and you will gain that hour back when the clocks move forward again.
 

Ed, this does make sense, especially for people who work the year round (but someone who works only during ST does lose out).

While reading it, I did think of the explanation as to why an upper berth cost less than a lower berth; basically, the upper is lower because it is higher.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 3, 2014 12:14 PM

TrainManTy

How does this work with track warrants/Form Ds? Let's say you get a form with a Time Effective of 0130. You leave the yard and head onto the main line as authorized by Line 2. At 0200 the clock changes back to 0100, and suddenly your D hasn't gone into effect yet. How do railroads handle this?

 

Time base 'mandatory directives' are issued NOT to have an effective time during the time that gets affected by the time change.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 3, 2014 12:45 PM

BaltACD
 
TrainManTy

How does this work with track warrants/Form Ds? Let's say you get a form with a Time Effective of 0130. You leave the yard and head onto the main line as authorized by Line 2. At 0200 the clock changes back to 0100, and suddenly your D hasn't gone into effect yet. How do railroads handle this? 

Time base 'mandatory directives' are issued NOT to have an effective time during the time that gets affected by the time change.

That's...simpler than I expected. Occam's razor at work. Thanks for the answer!

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 3, 2014 2:12 PM

TrainManTy

 

 
BaltACD
 
TrainManTy

How does this work with track warrants/Form Ds? Let's say you get a form with a Time Effective of 0130. You leave the yard and head onto the main line as authorized by Line 2. At 0200 the clock changes back to 0100, and suddenly your D hasn't gone into effect yet. How do railroads handle this? 

Time base 'mandatory directives' are issued NOT to have an effective time during the time that gets affected by the time change.

 

 

That's...simpler than I expected. Occam's razor at work. Thanks for the answer!

 

Train Dispatchers are paid to be 'smarter than the average bear.'

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 3, 2014 4:29 PM

Dispatchers don't have to deal with conductors herding stock cars now, do they?

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 3, 2014 6:14 PM

Deggesty

Dispatchers don't have to deal with conductors herding stock cars now, do they?

 

Last stock cars I saw in revenue service were in the middle 70's.

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Posted by csmith9474 on Monday, November 3, 2014 7:49 PM
None of our telecom equipment went crazy, so that is a plus.
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, November 3, 2014 8:32 PM

Deggesty
Dispatchers don't have to deal with conductors herding stock cars now, do they?

Wonder if BaltACD knows of or has heard that story ?  Smile, Wink & Grin (From A Treasury of Railroad Folklore)

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 3, 2014 9:02 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

 
Deggesty
Dispatchers don't have to deal with conductors herding stock cars now, do they?

 

Wonder if BaltACD knows of or has heard that story ?  Smile, Wink & Grin (From A Treasury of Railroad Folklore)

 

- Paul North. 

 

Herding Conductors can be akin to herding cats.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 3, 2014 9:54 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
 
Deggesty
Dispatchers don't have to deal with conductors herding stock cars now, do they?

 

Wonder if BaltACD knows of or has heard that story ?  Smile, Wink & Grin (From A Treasury of Railroad Folklore)

 

- Paul North. 

 

Paul, I was hoping Balt would catch that; obviously, you did. I'm sure Jeff caught it; if he is started as a conductor he would have been able to handle both situations.

Johnny

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, November 3, 2014 10:09 PM

As I recall, the car in question was loaded with mules.

I'm on vacation, so the time change didn't affect me.  Except by turning back the clock I get an extra hour.  Since I worked an hour and thirty minutes into vacation, they are still ahead 30 minutes.  Blew the turbocharger on the DP unit coming into Omaha on the way home so it took a little longer to make it home.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Monday, November 3, 2014 10:25 PM

Slightly tangential to this thread, but I seem to recall that at least the ATSF passenger timetable was on Standard Time year round at one time, which in my case would have been 1964.  Of course, that's fifty years ago and I've slept since then, so my recollection might be a little faulty.  I do remember good chow on a Harvey car, though.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 6:48 AM

Aviation movements are planned and filed in Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) rather than numerous local times.  Why don't the railroads do the same thing?  It avoids the confusion of changing time zones.

Daylight savings time is a silly, pointless, tradition.

Dave

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Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 7:30 AM

Phoebe Vet

Aviation movements are planned and filed in Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) rather than numerous local times.  Why don't the railroads do the same thing?  It avoids the confusion of changing time zones.

Daylight savings time is a silly, pointless, tradition.

 

Simply because most folk can't deal with the four hour (standard time) or five hour (DST) offset. Add to the mix the terms Zulu and Universal Time Coordinated and people wouldn't have a clue what time it is. Big Smile

Norm


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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:28 AM

Phoebe Vet

Aviation movements are planned and filed in Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) rather than numerous local times.  Why don't the railroads do the same thing?  It avoids the confusion of changing time zones.

Daylight savings time is a silly, pointless, tradition.

 

Despite operating in multiple civilian time zones, my carrier operates on it's own time zone designation systemwide.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:34 AM

In this day and age, i.e. the computer age, determining the time in any time zone of the world only takes a couple of key strokes on your computer, tablet, smart phone, etc.  There are all sorts of world clocks available on the Internet.

Shoot, my phone and computer change their clocks automatically upon the switch from daylight savings to standard time and vice versa.  Moreover, my phone changes its internal clock whenever I move from one time zone to another. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 10:24 AM

Norm48327
 
Phoebe Vet

Aviation movements are planned and filed in Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) rather than numerous local times.  Why don't the railroads do the same thing?  It avoids the confusion of changing time zones.

Daylight savings time is a silly, pointless, tradition.

 

 

 

Simply because most folk can't deal with the four hour (standard time) or five hour (DST) offset. Add to the mix the terms Zulu and Universal Time Coordinated and people wouldn't have a clue what time it is. Big Smile

 

Norm, do you live in the Atlantic time zone (60th meridian time)? I grew up in the Eastern time zone (75th meridian time) and learned to subtract five hours from Greenwich time.

I have a clock which is supposed to be right on time, as it has a radio receiver in it. This past Sunday morning, it had set itself properly--but in the aftenoon, it began showing New Orleans (90th meridian) time instead of Denver (105th meridian) time. I spanked it, and reset it to the proper time--and it proceeded to disobey me, adding an hour. It was right yesterday morning, and is still obedient this morning.

Let us not forget Newfoundland time.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 11:52 AM

Sam1

In this day and age, i.e. the computer age, determining the time in any time zone of the world only takes a couple of key strokes on your computer, tablet, smart phone, etc.  There are all sorts of world clocks available on the Internet.

Shoot, my phone and computer change their clocks automatically upon the switch from daylight savings to standard time and vice versa.  Moreover, my phone changes its internal clock whenever I move from one time zone to another. 

 
I agree that in the computer age this should not be a problem...
 
I set my computer time by clicking on the clock in the task bar, and selecting "Change time and date settings..." to get the setup dialog, then click the "Internet Time" tab, the "Change Settings" button, and the "Update now" button.
 
But ALL the other indications of time that I have... my cell phone (which sets the time from the Cell phone company), my TV (which gets the time from the TV stations), and my weather radio (which gets the time from some radio station)... ALL show different times, some of which are off only a few seconds and some of which have been off by 1 to 2 MINUTES at various times!
 
And when the time change occurred my television's "on-screen" program listing (which is downloaded via the broadcast Digital signal from each station) was off by one OR TWO hours for several days (up to a week) for some stations.
  
So, I have to ask; If it is so easy in this computer age, why are the many places that people get their "official" time from so far off from each other? Tongue Tied
 
 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 12:31 PM

Many systems now get their time from the GPS system.  

Others still use the National Bureau of Standards WWV time source.  I also used to use the Naval Observatory time hack.

Both will be accurate to fractions of a second, but how quickly a given device sets itself using such a time reference can vary.  And there is the issue of devices that think for themselves, as has already been mentioned.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 12:32 PM

Quoting semper vaporo: "But ALL the other indications of time that I have... my cell phone (which sets the time from the Cell phone company), my TV (which gets the time from the TV stations), and my weather radio (which gets the time from some radio station)... ALL show different times, some of which are off only a few seconds and some of which have been off by 1 to 2 MINUTES at various times!"

Yes, years ago, radio stations were right on the minute. Apparently, being accurate as to time no longer matters. The local television station that I ususally watch starts its news broadcasts two minutes or so ahead of the hour--and the network broadcast (delayed) also starts ahead of the announced time. Gone are the days when you could trust a broadcast station to give the correct time.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 4, 2014 1:53 PM

WGN radio (AM 720) in Chicago has long been noted for its time chime which is taken from the Naval Observatory.  I use it as a standard for my devices.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:07 PM

Chicago Daily Tribune editorial, August 18, 1920

When an Hour Means Half a Day

While railroad executives of the United States, again "on their own" in the matter of railroad operation, are struggling with the general transportation problem, they might find a moment for a specific case having to do chiefly with Chicago and New York.

The Twentieth Century and Broadway Limited are extra fare passenger trains originally established largely for the use of busy business men with interests in both Chicago and New York. Originally they left Chicago at 12:40 p.m. to arrive in New York at 9:30 a.m. This schedule allowed a man to complete a morning’s business in Chicago and have a useful portion of the next morning in New York. Under daylight saving they leave Chicago at 1:40 and arrive in New York at 10:30.

The delay in leaving, coming as it does at the lunch hour, is a waste. The delay in arriving practically wastes the morning in New York. Most of their traffic is through traffic. As long as daylight saving in Chicago and New York causes this waste, we believe passengers would appreciate it if the railroads made their schedules for these trains an hour earlier. The change would mean practically half a day to men whose days are all too short.

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