Train Horn Questions, and a few others

[kolechovski]

Over the years of watching the trains going by my house, I have heard many a type of train horn. Some sound like shrill blasts, while others were more of the soft, pleasant sound. Occasionally, I'd even hear a couple that reminded me of the ones I heard while fishing up at Erie, PA. One time, there was even one that sounded like it was throwing up, kinda funny. What I am wondering is why different engineers blow the horns in different patterns, and what pattern any of you who are engineers use.

Occasionally, there would be some that blow it a few long blasts from the start, a little pause, shorter, more frequent blasts as they got closer, then one long final blast until they got up to the road. Others just wait until they get up to the crossing and give it a few quick blasts. Some others (though these days, just about every one) do the 2 longs, a short, and a long. Finally, there would be a couple that just lay on the horn in one long blast until they made it up to the crossing. (There were also a couple that didn't even blow it at all-isn't that illegal?) Also, a couple give a couple quick toots on departure, though most don't.

Another question is about the tunes they play. Depending on how much the engineer pulls the handle, different, lighter tunes would play until they pulled all the way, and it filled with the most sound, and the loudest. I'm wondering exactly how that works, and how different sounds can be made just from how the handle is pulled. (Mostl;y like this back when Conrail ran the trains. Now that NS own these rails, these guys just do full blasts all the time)

Another question is about the lights/bells. Back when Conrail ran, most of the locos top 2 lights were vertical. They had those two lights on, as well as the two bottom ones. On the back of the train, any combination of the dimmed lights could be seen, sometimes even with those red lights on many of the Conrail locomotive noses. The bells were also rarely used, and the lights were rarely flashed. When NS took over, I found many of their locos to have the top 2 lights running horizontally, and when they're on the move, the same lights are on on the front of the train, the bottom ones are almost always flashed, and the bells are almost always used. On the back of those trains, the back loco's top headlights are always on dim. Also, these NS guys amost always blow the horn 2 longs, a short, and a long. Does NS have stricter operating procedures for their trains than Conrail did? Or did it mainly just depend on the style of the crew running the train?

[railman]

Well, kolechovski, I can try and answer it...at least keep the thread up until some other "big guns" give a more definitive answer....

On Question 1: Different engines/ companies have purchased different air horns over the years, some that sound better than others. For instance, some say the UP horn is bland while the BNSF sounds better. So different engines might have a varied style of horn.

On Question 2:
The AAR/FRA have standards when it comes to horn sounding at crossings. The shorts and the long across the road I believe are the SOP. (Standard Operating Procedure.) And unless the local community has banned the horns (like some places in Chicago) they should always be sounding the horn.

On Question 3:
Just like any valve, a light touch can allow varied releases of air.

On Question 4:
Are you referring to the ditch lights? Ever since 1994 (I think) it has been required for these to be on and flashing....rear engines display just the dim. I'm not familliar with the red lights on the Conrail units (having never saw them in action) so I won't speculate. The AAR Code of Operating Rules (1980 ed.) lists red lights as things to be displayed if something is wrong.

On Question 5 (bells): I find it hard to believe that any railroad could have much leeway when it comes to safety standards in this day of age...but I don't know. Again, hopefully this helps. I'm just a railfan with a copy of the Operating Rules.

[Anonymous]

Train horns have come up as a topic in the past on the forum. Check the seach box at the top. Try searching "air horns" or "Nathan air horns".

Long short long long is the standard horn signal for a grade crossing though individual engineers add their own style to it.

Different railroads have different preferences for air horns, but usually road units have three and five chime horns, branchline units two chime horns, and switchers one chime horns.

Somebody posted a cool web site a while back about Nathan Air Horns, those are the older ones that have a warm mellow tone. The musical tunings were also listed there.

[Mookie]

I have had occasion to look at some of these web sites, but would like to know a specific on the old E and F Units for CBQ? Anyone know the type of horn or a website with these sounds?

Moo

[Overmod]

Just for the record: jruppert, it's "long, long, short, long (usually extended to crossing)"

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Just for the record: jruppert, it's "long, long, short, long (usually extended to crossing)"

I think there is a time/distance factor as well for when the horn should first be sounded on approaching the crossing. IIRC, the last long should be held until the lead engine is completely occupying the crossing. Thus speed of the train is partly a factor in how the music is played, as is time of day, engineers experience, and preferences.

The "real" railroaders I encounter here at work generally sound the standard crossing signal (- - o -). The industrial switcher, however, has a pretty random repetoire. They often start out OK, but then discover they've finished the regular melody before they get to the crossing (they aren't moving too fast), so end up with a series of toots until they do get there.

kolechovski, you also mentioned two toots before the train starts moving. All though few are used in these days of radios, there are a number of codes that were used. Try a search on "whistle signals." There are two possible interpretations of two toots: acknowledgement (ie, the conductor just gave a visual "highball" and the hogger is acknowledging it), or it's a shortened "release brakes" (actually two longs), a holdover from the days when brakemen actually had to release the brakes.

[oltmannd]

The only legal requirement for the horn is 96dB at 100 feet to the front, four feet elevation. It can have any sound you care to pay for!

[DPD1]

This is a cool site where you can hear the examples...
http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/

Dave
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[Anonymous]

Being an engineer myself, I know you are required to give 20 seconds of warning prior to occupying crossing. I try to time my whistle so that my "longs" are all the same length, about 4 secs. apart. Also, it depends on the crossing (ie gates, lights, or just crossbucks), visiblity from the motorists perspective, how busy the street is, is there a lot of pedestrian traffic, etc. I will always give longer, more sustained blasts for "unprotected" (ie crossbucks only) crossings, especially where view is restricted.

Rick

[Glen Ellyn]

QUOTE: [i]One time, there was even one that sounded like it was throwing up, kinda funny.

Well, I can tell you now that that propably was a Dash9. I like that sound too. Esepecially when it eccos off alot of alot of buildings. hehe.[|)]