Are Passenger trains in N. America ever profitable

[schlimm]

PNWRMNM

If the NEC was a private entity it would have long since been bankrupt. That is why it is a ward of the Federal Government.

Using the same logic:
If many of our railroads had not been given their ROW's and government-secured, low interest bonding rights, plus enormous plots of land to sell and develop -- all from the federal government (especially for most western routes), they would have never been constructed.

[henry6]

Define "profitable" and never say "never". Quite often we use the term "successful" when describing a passenger train or service which at least pays it way. But where does "way" begin and end? At building of the right of way and infrastructure, purchase of equipment, crew costs, off train personnel costs, fuel, maintaining everything, stop me at any point here and say from this point on. Private railroads always claimed they lost money operating passenger trains despite owning the trainset and the railroad which they used to run freight trains and make money. So if that is the point we choose, then, no, passenger trains never make money. But if we say the track is already there as is the off train personnel and don't count those costs, one can argue some trains actually recoup their costs. Most notable is probably the current Amtrak Acela services and perhaps the Downeasters, too. And, oh yes, do you count the subsidy as income or not? And can the cost of moving the same number of people on another conveyance be considered against the cost of train or train service? There is no clear cut answer as the answer is emotional, political, and often not practical.

[PNWRMNM]

No.

Acela has enough of a competitive advantage for some people to attract a solid ridership, and to generate an "above the rail" contribution. The NEC is not self supporting since it is not generating enough contribution to maintain the system to a state of good repair and is absolutely incapable of generating sufficient cash flow to carry out a number of delayed capital improvements such as rebuilding or replacing the B&P tunnels and the East River tunnels.

If the NEC was a private entity it would have long since been bankrupt. That is why it is a ward of the Federal Government.

Mac

[daveklepper]

The short line operating passenger service from Saratoga to North Creek, NY, will probably tell you they are making a profit on their passenger trains, and so will the operator of the service in Maine that connects (at times) with Amtrak's Downeasterner service at Bangor and runs to Rokcland.  Acela makes a profit, in the general the NEC makes a profit considering operating costs, but including not interest on capital and depreciation charges.

[KBCpresident]

When Amtrak was created in 1971, were ANY passenger trains still reaping a profit? I know there were several opt-outs. There were however several railroads that seemed reluctant to join Amtrak, such as one of those seaboard railroads,(SCL or SAL, I don't remember which) and I have heard rumor that the ATSF was still making a profit on its name trains.

Also, does Accela have a competitive advantage? Is Amtrak making a  profit off of Accela?

Can someone explain what is going on with Iowa Pacific's Eastern Star?

Thanks