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Semi-official Rochelle webcam discussion thread

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 4:12 PM

Sometime in the past couple of years, UP did a lot of signal upgrade work in the San Joaquin Valley on the main that runs parallel to CAL-99 for much of the way from Bakersfield to Stockton, at least.  New signals were in place but turned.  I don't recall any light from the turned signals, but eventually they got aligned and activated.  My recollection is that this also occurred on the line from Bakersfield to Mojave at about the same time, but that might be just a mis-recollection.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 3:51 PM

Quite all right, Robert.

I'm very used to signals being sideways until activated.  At one point in my working experience I was watching lit-up block signals at what was then the Wolf Road interlocking.  They weren't in service, but they were lit and functional, so I could see them from my retarder tower!

I also remember signals turned sideways when de-activated.  One of the saddest train trips I took was in 1974; it happened to coincide with the C&O removing from service large portions of its second main track.  Pat and I were riding between Richmond and Newport News then.

Carl

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:12 AM
Thank you for the nice words Carl …
I was trying to find some of the photos of the third track construction in Cajon Pass. There was a time where they installed a new signal, but had it turned 90 degrees so that it was parallel with the track. They came back later and pivoted it on the base.
If K.P. follows this thread, he may remember the photo.

 

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Posted by xjqcf on Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:25 PM

jeffhergert

Why they don't restore the switch immediately after clearing it may have to do with the signal circuitry.  They may gave to have equipment clear of the interlocking plant before restoring it.

We have a hand throw time-lock switch at one location in a dispatcher controlled point that can only be operated (opening or closing) with equipment clear of the plant.  If it's operated without everything clear of the plant limits, it screws up the entire control point and requires a signal maintainer to reset everything.  Needless to say this one switch is rarely used. 

Jeff

 

 

One thing that occured to me is that, in addition to the other reasons cited, this is done to avoid having clear signals set for UP movements suddenly drop to stop when the switch is normalized. I've seen numerous times with the switch reversed and the BNSF local (the "476") having at least all or part of his train on the main 2 track UP trains entering the plant without a problem. One would expect a proper interlocking design would lock conflicting routes if any part of the plant is occupied. It would make sense, in this layout however to permit UP routes to be unlocked when the switch is reversed regardless of occupancy of any part of this route, since no conflict can result. Using the observed behavior allows the local to clear east of the interlocking's westbound home signal and only then normalizing the switch which will avoid dropping any UP signal that might have been cleared. 

Again, pure speculation on my part with no factual basis.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:22 AM

Electroliner 1935

Watching the BNSF racetrack signal replacement, it was as I described earlier, all new signal bridges and signals installed, then on the day of replacement, in a period of about an hour, old signals were removed and new ones activated. Most of these cutovers included new control huts. 

 

That's the way CN did it at Durand. Took longer than an hour though.

Norm


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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, April 8, 2016 10:51 PM

Watching the BNSF racetrack signal replacement, it was as I described earlier, all new signal bridges and signals installed, then on the day of replacement, in a period of about an hour, old signals were removed and new ones activated. Most of these cutovers included new control huts. See the attached video of a CSX removal of an old cantilever signal bridge and the new one with its signals bagged behind it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KCjUCrm3DE

Ep. 386: End of an Era: Death & Removal of the Godfrey Ave Signal Cantilever

The crew gets permision from the dispatcher and then goes to work. Crane operator and crew do a beautiful job of positioning the old bridge. BaltACD, I believe this is your carrier. 

Only complaint about the video is I wish the noise of the crane could have been controled. Just picking nits.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 8, 2016 10:40 PM

cefinkjr
 
jeffhergert
If it's operated without everything clear of the plant limits, it screws up the entire control point and requires a signal maintainer to reset everything.

If you look at some installations and see the numerous overlaps of block and crossing protection, you begin to wonder if there isn't some magic involved...

Deshler, OH, has three crossings on the main, plus three transfers (each of which has at least one crossing) and the diamond.   Yet all of the crossings and signals activate at the appropriate times...

Gotta be interesting to be a signal maintainer there...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by cefinkjr on Friday, April 8, 2016 10:27 PM

jeffhergert
If it's operated without everything clear of the plant limits, it screws up the entire control point and requires a signal maintainer to reset everything.

I suspect the engineer who designed that circuit may be a former employee or has been promoted a couple of times.

Chuck
Allen, TX

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, April 8, 2016 10:16 PM

Watching the BNSF racetrack signal replacement, it was as I described earlier, all new signal bridges and signals installed, then on the day of replacement, in a period of about an hour, old signals were removed and new ones activated. Most of these cutovers included new control huts. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 8, 2016 7:47 PM

Electroliner 1935
BaltACD

I don't think this is the way it happens. All old signals will be in operation until the new one are ready to go and tested. Then in about an hour they activate the new signals (turn them toward the track) and bag the old ones. THEN they dismantle the old ones. They don't operate without signals.

My carrier takes the old signals out of service and operates on TWC block authorities while the new signals are being activated and TESTED - two sets of signal systems cannot be tested with both active. Where possible the new signals are all installed with their heads turned so as not to face rail traffic.  After the new signals have passed their testing, the order defining the limits of the Signal Suspension is annuled; a General Bulletin was issued at the same time as the Signal Suspension Bulletin that defined the retirement of the old signals and the New signals and their location.  With the Signal Suspension Bulletin annulled, the New signals are in operation.  Concurrent with installing the new signals for PTC - they are also changing signal spacing in most cases to allow for the larger trains that are now being run.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, April 8, 2016 7:01 PM

BaltACD
While the new signals are being placed into service, the old signals will be dismantled.  During the change over other rules will be placed in service for continued operation.  By the time the New Sginals are in service and opeating, the old ones will be long gone.

I don't think this is the way it happens. All old signals will be in operation until the new one are ready to go and tested. Then in about an hour they activate the new signals (turn them toward the track) and bag the old ones. THEN they dismantle the old ones. They don't operate without signals.

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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, April 8, 2016 12:34 PM

jeffhergert
We have a hand throw time-lock switch at one location in a dispatcher controlled point that can only be operated (opening or closing) with equipment clear of the plant. If it's operated without everything clear of the plant limits, it screws up the entire control point and requires a signal maintainer to reset everything. Needless to say this one switch is rarely used.

My Dad used to talk about switches like that, and he retired from dispatching just over 30 years ago. I'm kind of surprised that they haven't thought of a simpler way of doing that.

And I just saw a really really big Tonka Toy being hauled west on the BNSF. It was so big the bits and pieces were spread out over three flat cars. I've always wondered how they did that. Everything seemed to be there, but the tires and rims. I guess they are shipped seperately from a different manufacturer.

Bruce

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 7, 2016 5:49 PM

CShaveRR

Very good point about the signal, Mr. Damon!  And I was just wondering about the opposite thing:  when they place the new westbound signals in service, the old ones are going to block that view for a bit.

BNSF may not have the same problem:  the new cantilever for their westbound signals is considerably taller than the existing bridge.

While the new signals are being placed into service, the old signals will be dismantled.  During the change over other rules will be placed in service for continued operation.  By the time the New Sginals are in service and opeating, the old ones will be long gone.  The changeover will take 24 to 48 hours.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, April 7, 2016 5:05 PM

Very good point about the signal, Mr. Damon!  And I was just wondering about the opposite thing:  when they place the new westbound signals in service, the old ones are going to block that view for a bit.

BNSF may not have the same problem:  the new cantilever for their westbound signals is considerably taller than the existing bridge.

Carl

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 7, 2016 4:06 PM

tree68
jeffhergert

I'm putting my money on this....  

Tracks where a locomotive or train is able to clear the Main track and the track speed is greater than 20 MPH must have a Electric Lock Switch accessing that track from the Main.  Electric Lock Switches all have their own 'personality'; primary among them - where a timer is in place, if you attempt to operate the switch before the timer has run its course - the timer starts over again from zero.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 3:58 PM

jeffhergert
Why they don't restore the switch immediately after clearing it may have to do with the signal circuitry.  They may gave to have equipment clear of the interlocking plant before restoring it.

I'm putting my money on this....   

LarryWhistling
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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, April 7, 2016 3:54 PM

Why they don't restore the switch immediately after clearing it may have to do with the signal circuitry.  They may gave to have equipment clear of the interlocking plant before restoring it.

We have a hand throw time-lock switch at one location in a dispatcher controlled point that can only be operated (opening or closing) with equipment clear of the plant.  If it's operated without everything clear of the plant limits, it screws up the entire control point and requires a signal maintainer to reset everything.  Needless to say this one switch is rarely used. 

Jeff

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 12:10 PM

BaltACD

 

 
phkmn2000

I've noticed that when the engine emerges from the BNSF siding, it often travels quite a distance east on the main before stopping, so the guy working the switch appears to have a fair hike to re-board.

 

It is traveling past the BNSF signal for the diamond, so that it can proceed on signal indication after the switch is closed, rather than Restricted Speed to the next signal in the train's route as would be required if they just proceeded West from the switch.

 

 
That makes sense, but if the engine is going to proceed east, it will still travel a considerable distance past the switch before stopping.  Moreover, the man operating the switch just stands and watches it do so and makes no move to return the switch to mainline operation for a minute or two.   I don't understand why they don't just clear the switch, stop and wait for him to operate the switch and return to the train. 
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:18 AM

phkmn2000

I've noticed that when the engine emerges from the BNSF siding, it often travels quite a distance east on the main before stopping, so the guy working the switch appears to have a fair hike to re-board.

It is traveling past the BNSF signal for the diamond, so that it can proceed on signal indication after the switch is closed, rather than Restricted Speed to the next signal in the train's route as would be required if they just proceeded West from the switch.

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Posted by phkmn2000 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 9:36 AM

I've noticed that when the engine emerges from the BNSF siding, it often travels quite a distance east on the main before stopping, so the guy working the switch appears to have a fair hike to re-board.

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Posted by rdettmer on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:14 PM

i saw the wiper early this am. wonder how they turn it on.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:41 PM

Rain drops hitting the camera lens at present.

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:33 PM

I do not think it was ever put up since it is in front of the existing signal and would block it.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:29 PM

Did anyone else notice that the horizontal part of the new cantilever signal for eastbound UP traffic has been taken down?  I was out there (again) today, and noticed it lying on the ground by the wall of the old warehouse.  Nobody was working at around noon today--no vehicles present (no trains, either, for that matter).

Carl

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Posted by MKT Dave on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:37 AM

chrisjmiller

8:30 am my time (UK based) Smile

 

I watch the 'rails.com/uk', 'dawlish beach cam' you'd be surpised what comes 'up' and 'down' in the middle of the night. Caught the 'clay' train on the DB site several times. headed for brickworks. Sundown in the UK is about 13 or 14:00 Central time which is Rochelle. 

...
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Posted by MKT Dave on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:30 AM

MrLynn

 
chrisjmiller

While you were sleeping ...

Rail grinder went through at 2:30 am local:

https://goo.gl/NCZJII

 

You're up all night watching the webcam in the dark?

It would be neat if there were lights on the diamonds. . .

/Mr Lynn

[/quote]

Yes, when there is nothing happening, the page is minimized and with the sound turned up, you can hear trains from a long way off. With the exception of the EB UP. EB BNSF has a crossing several miles away, on a clear night you can hear them blowing for that crossing.

I do a lot of writing, havent published anything yet...yet.

Last summer caught a rail grinder on the BNSF about 2300, and I got a series of shots of it as it crossed the diamonds, then backed up out of sight and came back..

...
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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:48 PM

There was nothing going on today at Rochelle, at least not in mid-afternoon when we were out there.  I made a point of examining the camera from below.  I couldn't see a visible smudge on the cover that protects the lens.  If someone had a ladder tall enough to gain access to the roof, the pitch of the roof is relatively shallow, and a properly-equipped person should be able to see and eliminate anything that's spoiling the view.

Carl

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, April 5, 2016 9:50 PM

rdamon

Looking at some of the photos of the area, there are some lights on the pole near the diamonds. I have never seen them lit. 

They have been, on occasion, when work stretches into darkness.  It doesn't happen often and probably won't until Fall, unless something major goes wrong.

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Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, April 5, 2016 5:29 PM

TIP (if you use Windows 7 or newer):

  1. Log in with Internet Explorer and navigate to the webcam (probably works with Chrome or FireFox, too.  I just haven't tried it with them.)
  2. Drag the icon at the left end of the IE address text box to your task bar.  The icon will change to the T-trademark logo.

One click on your new task bar icon will now open IE with the webcam.  You will have to scroll down to see all of it.

You're welcome.

Chuck
Allen, TX

RME
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Posted by RME on Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:55 AM

tree68
Lights with a tight pattern, facing downward would be the answer. Such lights are already in use in many places (parking lots, especially). They light the area below them, but the light doesn't spread very far.

I'd think that some of the specialized lighting I see used for individual highway lanes in some locations, which is located very low in railings or shoulders and presumably uses some sort of anamorphic lensing to 'spread' the light, would be the right solution here: it would only contact the area of the train or some regions of the undercarriage, and might even be oriented to 'throw' the light pattern toward the camera location in the vertical plane, or shuttered to keep stray light in the horizontal plane controlled...

it's easier when you only have one 'viewer' of a lighted area...

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