Shared RR & auto bridges?

[MidlandMike]

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

[Redore]

Between Houghton and Hancock, MI, there's a modern lift bridge over the ship canal that used to have Soo Line tracks on a lower level. 

 

There are two traffic decks with the rails set in the lower deck.  In the summer the lower deck is set at the upper level unless there is train traffic so small boats can pass.  In the winter the bridge is left lowered all the way so train traffic was unobstructed. 

 

The rails are gone now, but the right of way and lower deck are used as snowmobile trails.

 

http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Bridges/SooPortageCanalHoughton.htm

 

 

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

[K. P. Harrier]

MidlandMike (1-26):

MidlandMike

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

The Southwestern Portland operation …

… is related to a cement quarry.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

 

 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

 

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

 

That sign was located at the Fort Madison bridge.  I may have a more recent picture of the rate sign from about 1986.

[morey2001]

the Little Current swing bridge is a good example

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8353/8274904374_c498310d44.jpg

Chris Morey

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

 

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

 

 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

 

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

 

Ah, yes, Paul, I well remember the bridge sign--and the "yak fat flat rack" car. For the benefit of those wonder about that car, there was an a item which told us that if a railroad should file for a rate for carrying yak fat, truck lines would also want a rate for the same commodity.

Now, back to the topic: in 1966 as I was on my way (via KCS) from Shreveport to Baton Rouge, we crossed a bridge that was then used by both highway and rail traffic, but not at the same time. I believe that the highway now has its own bridge (the highway grew up and could be responsible for its own right of way?)

[mudchicken]

MidlandMike

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

 

Southwest Portland Cement Co. /"Mojave Northern" (private carrier, since 1913 interchanges with ATSF/BNSF.....funny duck of a railroad)

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Johnny (and others) - I looked and found the yak fat item: Nov. 1965 issue, pg. 58A.  It was a trucker who started with the rate filing. 

The car designation was a little different than what I posted above: "Yak Fat Rack Flat".  I wonder how the AAR would have classified it ?  Perhaps Carl/ CShaveRR will know . . .

Folks who haven't seen the original column may be excused for thinking we're a bit daft - but it was for real !

Didn't find the bridge rate sign, though (yet !).

- Paul North.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Bridge rate sign item is in the November 1967 issue, at pg. 56, cols. 2 & 3: 

"Nobody, but nobody, can make rates like a railroad rate man - and here's the proof."   

It would take me about an hour (that I don't have right now) to type them all up.  But some examples - all in cents: 

Autos were 25, plus charge of 5 for any passengers age 11 or over. 

" . . . tractors, traction engines, threshing machines, combines . . . " - same as auto trucks.  

"Horse and rider - 15" 

"Horses or cattle, driven or led per head - 10" 

"Hogs or sheep per head - 05" 

"Foot passengers (eleven or over) each - 05" 

"Foot passengers under eleven - Free"

- Paul North. 

[Nuttyrr]

In Toronto, ON,   the Prince Edward Viaduct carries road traffic on the upper deck,  and the Toronto Bloor St Subway on it's lower deck.  It was built in 1918 with provision for the lower deck which was not used until the subway opened in 1966 !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Viaduct

[Dasco]

I think I recall one between International Falls, MN and Ft. Francis, Ontario. 

[pepper378]

I don't think the Pit River bridge has been mentioned, which carries I-5 traffic (upper deck) and UP (lower deck) over Shasta Lake in northern California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_River_Bridge

[DSchmitt]

pepper378

I don't think the Pit River bridge has been mentioned, which carries I-5 traffic (upper deck) and UP (lower deck) over Shasta Lake in northern California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_River_Bridge

 

 

The West Branch Feather River Bridge is its twin _ UP Railroad (former Western Pacific) and State Highway 70.

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/butte/120134/

 

Another link about the I-5 Bridge

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/shasta/60021/

 

 

[sigengr]

The traffic lanes were outboard of the K&I bridge.  NS still uses one lane occasionally.  It used to be a toll bridge.

 

[rcdrye]

In Chicago, the Lake Street and Wells Street bridges over the Chicago River carry their respective streets and the CTA (Green on Lake, Brown/Purple on Wells).  Under the Lake Street bridge and the river is the Blue Line.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Manhattan Bridge between New York and Brooklyn has a similar arrangement.  Multiple NYCTA subway routes are on an upper level with auto traffic on the main bridge deck.

[Electroliner 1935]

rcdrye

In Chicago, the Lake Street and Wells Street bridges over the Chicago River carry their respective streets and the CTA (Green on Lake, Brown/Purple on Wells).  Under the Lake Street bridge and the river is the Blue Line.

 Add the Pink line to the Lake Street Bridge.

 

[chatanuga]

Video from my last trip down to Thurmond, WV and driving over the shared railroad/road bridge.

ZLXKYFH5qt4?t=38m31s

And shortly after I parked the Jeep.

LX0uhUMlA4?t=1m2s

Kevin

[DSchmitt]

Kevin C. Smith

Sacramento, CA's "I" Street uses the upper deck of UP's former Espee swing bridge across the Sacramento River.

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/yolo/22C0153/

 

 

[DSchmitt]

3rd Street Bridge, San Francisco

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=3rd_St_Bridge_1990s

http://www.streetcar.org/third-street-memories/

 

 

[LOWRANZO STEVE PANZIK]

Folks,

      The Meridian and Bigsbee Railroad crossed the Tombigbee river at Myrtlewood, Alabama on a combination rail/hiway drawbridge. I am not sure now is still the case. When I was a Locomotive Engineer on the L&N Myrtlewood Branch from Selma, Al. The M&B had to cross that bridge to interchange with us. It was a through truss with both the rails and higway sharing the same deck. Seems the raails ran down the middle of the road and a signal system protected the useage.

 

Steve Panzik

Chiloquin, Or

[Deggesty]

Was this the bridge that fell in a few years back when parts for a space shuttle were being feried from Utah to the launch facility on the East Coast?

[LOWRANZO STEVE PANZIK]

[quote user="Deggesty"]

Was this the bridge that fell in a few years back when parts for a space shuttle were being feried from Utah to the launch facility on the East Coast?

 

[/quote Johnny, That was a timber trestle just east of it. CSX spun off the Myrtlewood branch and the line from Selma to Montgomery to a shortline.

We, L&N/CSX, never ran six axles on this trackage. Had light rail. Was a matter of time before something else happened. Numerous problems. Roller ocaster profile, numerous sharp curves and especially between Linden and Myrtlewood, a soft roadbed.

We use to handle those shuttle shipments from NOLA via Pensacola to Jacksnville, but some bean counter must have convinced management they could save a few bucks running them through Selma and you saw what happened.

Those where the booster secments and the nosecones, Extremely heavy.

Steve Panzik, Retired Pensacola Division Engr, CHiloquin, Fl

 

 

[BandO98]

That was a different bridge where the solid rocket sections for the Shuttle were damaged.

The Google map aerial photo now shows a new highway bridge over the Tombigbee River just south of the M&B bridge. I remember seeing the joint use bridge on a 1998 M&B fan trip. Motorists who ran that red light were in for a big surprise!

 

One I haven't seen mention of is (was?) on BC Rail (now CN) south of Fort Nelson, British Columbia. As on the M&B bridge, traffic lights controlled the joint use. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Although not a bridge, the Alaska RR - highway tunnel at Whittier is similar:

http://www.alaska.org/detail/whittier-tunnel 

"The one-lane tunnel must be shared by cars and trains traveling in both directions . . . This unique design that enables a single lane of traffic to travel directly over the railroad track saved tens of millions of dollars over the cost of constructing a new tunnel." 

http://www.alaskatrain.com/destinations/whittier.html

- Paul North.

[Paul of Covington]

   I just remembered another one: an old one in eastern New Orleans.   The roadways see practically no use with all the new highway bridges around there.   I think it's CSX, but it may belong to NOPB.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulofcov/24675995780/in/album-72157626021256880/

[blue streak 1]

It would appear that the two busiest rail / auto bridges are the Huey long bridge in New Orleans and Steel bridge in Portland Oregon.

[Mike from Virginia]

The neatest bridge I ever crossed was in Foxburg PA. This is a small town along the Allegany River north of Pittsburgh. The Allegany Valley Branch of the PRR ran along the eastern side of the river and the B & O along the western side until Foxburg. At Foxburg the B & O crossed the river on a deck truss. The lower chords of the truss supported a highway crossing. The neatest thing was the B & O then climbed the hill on a series of switch backs. Once it got to the top the railroad ran through a golf course. The bridge was torn down a number of years ago. If you look up Foxburg PA on the computer there are pictures.

[Deggesty]

Mike from Virginia

The neatest bridge I ever crossed was in Foxburg PA. This is a small town along the Allegany River north of Pittsburgh. The Allegany Valley Branch of the PRR ran along the eastern side of the river and the B & O along the western side until Foxburg. At Foxburg the B & O crossed the river on a deck truss. The lower chords of the truss supported a highway crossing. The neatest thing was the B & O then climbed the hill on a series of switch backs. Once it got to the top the railroad ran through a golf course. The bridge was torn down a number of years ago. If you look up Foxburg PA on the computer there are pictures.

 

Mike were these true switchbacks--run past a switch, line it for the other track, back to the next switch, line it for the other track, and so on? Or, loops like the Rio Grande's Gilluly Loops on the west slope of the Wasatch?