Shared RR & auto bridges?

[DSchmitt]

3rd Street Bridge, San Francisco

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=3rd_St_Bridge_1990s

http://www.streetcar.org/third-street-memories/

 

 

[DSchmitt]

Kevin C. Smith

Sacramento, CA's "I" Street uses the upper deck of UP's former Espee swing bridge across the Sacramento River.

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/yolo/22C0153/

 

 

[chatanuga]

Video from my last trip down to Thurmond, WV and driving over the shared railroad/road bridge.

ZLXKYFH5qt4?t=38m31s

And shortly after I parked the Jeep.

LX0uhUMlA4?t=1m2s

Kevin

[Electroliner 1935]

rcdrye

In Chicago, the Lake Street and Wells Street bridges over the Chicago River carry their respective streets and the CTA (Green on Lake, Brown/Purple on Wells).  Under the Lake Street bridge and the river is the Blue Line.

 Add the Pink line to the Lake Street Bridge.

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Manhattan Bridge between New York and Brooklyn has a similar arrangement.  Multiple NYCTA subway routes are on an upper level with auto traffic on the main bridge deck.

[rcdrye]

In Chicago, the Lake Street and Wells Street bridges over the Chicago River carry their respective streets and the CTA (Green on Lake, Brown/Purple on Wells).  Under the Lake Street bridge and the river is the Blue Line.

[sigengr]

The traffic lanes were outboard of the K&I bridge.  NS still uses one lane occasionally.  It used to be a toll bridge.

 

[DSchmitt]

pepper378

I don't think the Pit River bridge has been mentioned, which carries I-5 traffic (upper deck) and UP (lower deck) over Shasta Lake in northern California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_River_Bridge

 

 

The West Branch Feather River Bridge is its twin _ UP Railroad (former Western Pacific) and State Highway 70.

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/butte/120134/

 

Another link about the I-5 Bridge

https://bridgehunter.com/ca/shasta/60021/

 

 

[pepper378]

I don't think the Pit River bridge has been mentioned, which carries I-5 traffic (upper deck) and UP (lower deck) over Shasta Lake in northern California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_River_Bridge

[Dasco]

I think I recall one between International Falls, MN and Ft. Francis, Ontario. 

[Nuttyrr]

In Toronto, ON,   the Prince Edward Viaduct carries road traffic on the upper deck,  and the Toronto Bloor St Subway on it's lower deck.  It was built in 1918 with provision for the lower deck which was not used until the subway opened in 1966 !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Viaduct

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Bridge rate sign item is in the November 1967 issue, at pg. 56, cols. 2 & 3: 

"Nobody, but nobody, can make rates like a railroad rate man - and here's the proof."   

It would take me about an hour (that I don't have right now) to type them all up.  But some examples - all in cents: 

Autos were 25, plus charge of 5 for any passengers age 11 or over. 

" . . . tractors, traction engines, threshing machines, combines . . . " - same as auto trucks.  

"Horse and rider - 15" 

"Horses or cattle, driven or led per head - 10" 

"Hogs or sheep per head - 05" 

"Foot passengers (eleven or over) each - 05" 

"Foot passengers under eleven - Free"

- Paul North. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Johnny (and others) - I looked and found the yak fat item: Nov. 1965 issue, pg. 58A.  It was a trucker who started with the rate filing. 

The car designation was a little different than what I posted above: "Yak Fat Rack Flat".  I wonder how the AAR would have classified it ?  Perhaps Carl/ CShaveRR will know . . .

Folks who haven't seen the original column may be excused for thinking we're a bit daft - but it was for real !

Didn't find the bridge rate sign, though (yet !).

- Paul North.

[mudchicken]

MidlandMike

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

 

Southwest Portland Cement Co. /"Mojave Northern" (private carrier, since 1913 interchanges with ATSF/BNSF.....funny duck of a railroad)

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

 

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

 

 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

 

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

 

Ah, yes, Paul, I well remember the bridge sign--and the "yak fat flat rack" car. For the benefit of those wonder about that car, there was an a item which told us that if a railroad should file for a rate for carrying yak fat, truck lines would also want a rate for the same commodity.

Now, back to the topic: in 1966 as I was on my way (via KCS) from Shreveport to Baton Rouge, we crossed a bridge that was then used by both highway and rail traffic, but not at the same time. I believe that the highway now has its own bridge (the highway grew up and could be responsible for its own right of way?)

[morey2001]

the Little Current swing bridge is a good example

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8353/8274904374_c498310d44.jpg

Chris Morey

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

 

 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

 

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

 

That sign was located at the Fort Madison bridge.  I may have a more recent picture of the rate sign from about 1986.

[K. P. Harrier]

MidlandMike (1-26):

MidlandMike

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

The Southwestern Portland operation …

… is related to a cement quarry.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Victrola1

Since Nov. 6, (2008) however, the bridge has been subject to an 8-ton weight
limit, which affects about 10 percent of bridge traffic, BNSF
spokesman Steven Forsberg said.

That weight limit and the fact that the bridge will sooner or later no
longer be fit to carry vehicle traffic, has caused Fort Madison
political and business leaders to once again begin talking about the
prospect of replacing the bridge.  

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.road/2009-01/msg01330.html 

Not sure if this is the same bridge or not, but:

Way back in the last half of the 1960's, there was a photo in the "Second Section" at the back of the magazine (Editor David P. Morgan's column of miscellaneous musings) of a sign with the toll rates for non-railroad 'traffic' on an ATSF bridge, IIRC.  Not only did it have the rates for the usual cars, buses, and trucks of various types, but also for cows, sheep, etc.  I believe* the caption was something like "No one can make rates like a railroad rate man !"

(*If not this, then it was a similar column around the same time about the "yak fat rate" case, which led to the concept of the "yak fat flat rack" car . . .  

- Paul North.   

[Redore]

Between Houghton and Hancock, MI, there's a modern lift bridge over the ship canal that used to have Soo Line tracks on a lower level. 

 

There are two traffic decks with the rails set in the lower deck.  In the summer the lower deck is set at the upper level unless there is train traffic so small boats can pass.  In the winter the bridge is left lowered all the way so train traffic was unobstructed. 

 

The rails are gone now, but the right of way and lower deck are used as snowmobile trails.

 

http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Bridges/SooPortageCanalHoughton.htm

 

 

 

[MidlandMike]

Is that line N of Victorville, a mining branch?

[K. P. Harrier]

Over the I-15 Freeway north of Victorville, CA a number of miles, in the Mojave Desert, is a duel train and vehicle bridge.

While this contributor has seen a train or two that used the bridge, he has never seen a vehicle traverse it.  Of course, this is a very sparse area, and unless a person had an ATC or dirt bike, or was an adventurous railfan that was knowledgeable enough to know about the site, it is unlikely that a visitor would every see a motor vehicle cross the bridge.

[ORNHOO]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Do bridges that carry only Light Rail Vehicles / streetcars count, too ?  Either way, the "Steel Bridge" in Portland' Oregon qualifies !  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Bridge

"Its lower deck carries railroad and bicycle/pedestrian traffic, while the upper deck carries road traffic (on the Pacific Highway West No. 1W, former Oregon Route 99W) and light rail (MAX), making the bridge one of the most multimodal in the world." (emphasis added - PDN)

- Paul North.

 

In addition to the Steel Bridge, Portland's new Tillicum Crossing bridge has rails shared by MAX Light Rail and Portland Streetcars, Plus two lanes reserved for Tri-Met Busses and for emergency vehicles (fire engines, ambulances, etc.). Not autos, perhaps, but still equipped with rubber tires.

BTW...the Carleton Bridge in Bath, Maine still carries the remains of the US1 road deck, even though the highway has used a new bridge since 2000

[DSchmitt]

I Street Bridge Sacramento CA

http://bridgehunter.com/ca/yolo/22C0153/

 

[Electroliner 1935]

The old K & I bridge in Louisville KY originally had tracks and auto lanes but with the construction of newer bridges, it now only carries trains. Used to carry Southern, Monon, & B&O. B&O looped under and then did a 270 degree turn onto the bridge. Thats been removed. Now just NS and CSX. 

[rcdrye]

The former Springfield Terminal bridge carrying NH 11 between Charlestown NH and Springfield VT still has some overhead wire brackets over the westbound lane.  Rails are still there under the westbound lane.  The Railroad owned the bridge until 2001, collecting a 15 cent toll.  The state of New Hampshire owns it now, made it free in 2005.  Last rail traffic in 1986, wires came down in 1956.

[SD70M-2Dude]

cx500

There are still a handful in Canada.  Nipawin (Saskatchewan), Thunder Bay (Ontario) and the Victoria Bridge in Montreal come immediately to mind and I am sure there will be a few others.  There used to be many more, but either the road authority built a new bridge more suitable for modern traffic needs, or in some cases the railway was abandoned leaving the road in sole possession.  The most common bridge style at a shared crossing was that of a truss bridge, rather than plate girders or timber trestle.  But there were exceptions.

They came in four basic styles.  The simplest was where the road and rail shared the same deck and road traffic was halted when a train was operated.  In others, the road deck was above the rail deck, and a third was the opposite, where the rail deck was on top.  The fourth placed the road decks on the outside of trusses.

John

 

Besides Thunder Bay, the only bridge in Western Canada I can think of with a shared road/rail deck still in use is on CN (ex-BC Rail) just south of Fort Nelson, BC.  One track, one lane deck but only 4-6 trains a week.

Others of any type include:

-the aforementioned Crooked Bridge in Nipawin (separate decks), now used infrequently by a shortline, road deck still open.

-the High Level Bridge in Edmonton (separate decks), originally it carried trains and streetcars on the top deck, vehicles and pedestrians underneath.  CP quit running trains about 1990, and now only historic streetcars use the upper deck.  Road deck still open.

-the Low Level Bridge in Edmonton (shared deck).  Originally carried CN (ex-Canadian Northern, nee Edmonton, Yukon & Pacific), rails ripped up in 1952.

-CN east of Prince George, BC.  A spur once ran across the Fraser River beside the roadway on a single bridge, track is now abandoned.  Farther east the mainline crosses the Fraser and until about 5 years ago shared the deck with a roadway, but a new road bridge was built a short distance downstream.

-CN at Prince George (separate decks), highway now crosses on a different bridge.

-CN at Fort Saskatchewan, AB (separate decks).  Bridge now demolished, only piers remain.

-Northern Alberta at Peace River, AB (shared deck).  Railroad still in use (CN), highway has its own bridge.  This was the site of the runaway caboose story in a recent Classic Trains issue.

I am sure there were more in Western Canada, when built most major railway bridges would have carried local traffic even if they didn't have a purpose-built road deck, as they were usually the first bridge built in the area.  Most have since lost one use, and some have been abandoned altogether.

[DSchmitt]

Old M Street Bridge Sacramento CA Sacramento Northern Railway

http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/899631_f260.jpg

http://bridgehunter.com/ca/sacramento/m-street/  Note Description in this article is for the Tower Bridge which replaced it.

Tower Bridge 

http://bridgehunter.com/ca/yolo/220021/

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/67NKDqoC_Bw/maxresdefault.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67NKDqoC_Bw

Track removed 1963

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo_Ames]

I was on a bridge in Rome NY recently that also had tracks. 

http://binged.it/1RGGSDQ

[Bethayres Sam]

I crossed that bridge many times during my trucking days, always at night. Never knew there was a railroad on it until 0dark00 one night, about four of us were crossing and a train came along. We all thought we were going into the Mississippi mud. The highway part of the bridge (US80) was so narrow that when two trucks met, we would have to put our passenger side tires against edge and pull our driver side mirrors in, in order to clear.