Hand signal for marker lights on

[wilmette2210]

Good evening, 

I would like to know if there any hand signals for rear marker light on? I ask this because last week while waiting for a train at the Wilmette Metra station, a inboud train was leaving and a rail-fan was shouting ,"highball,highball,highball," then as the rear of the train was passing he put up what looked like a piece sign. I asked him what he was doing and he said he letting the engineer know the marker lights were on.  So is two fingers held up with knuckles facing outward  a hand signal for marker light on or is he just making something up? Thanks   

[Randy Stahl]

You got some smoke blown up your....

[henry6]

I this case, yes, smoke is billowing to calm the foam. Ironically in years past when there were real markers and real people there were such unreal hand signals. For instance, in the case of marker lamps, one might point to or pull on his ear(s) to indicate markers were out, or even cover the ears. A palm on the forehead and the other hand pointing toward a headlight would indicate the headlight was either on or off or high or whatever but the engine crew would know enough to check it out.. Of course the old hotbox signal was on hand pinching the nose and the other pointing at an angle toward the running gear and two hands up in the air rubbing together indicated stuck brakes. Most of the signals were in the Books of Rules but others were less formal and different from road to road and place to place.

[tree68]

NORAC has only a few official hand signals - ahead, back up, slow down, stop. apply air brakes (when stopped), release air brakes (ditto), and raise/lower pantagraph.

Any and all other hand signals are by agreement by the folks using them.  Several we use are to ask for and cancel three step protection (three fingers in the air, and three fingers turned down), half car (hand at waist, indicating a half car to a stop/hitch), stretch (mimicking couplers pulling against one another), "bump the pin" (fists bumping on each other), and a "clock face" for bringing the locomotive in for the last fifteen feet to a hitch.

We're usually dealing with doing runarounds with the locomotive, so we're right at the locomotive when using the bulk of these.  During the normal season, this would be four times a day.  If we're switching with cars between us and the loco, we're usually on the radio.

Occasionally, if assisting the engineer with the loco inspection, I'll indicate to turn on the headlights or auxiliary (ditch) lights by opening my hand like a flower blooming, held either high (headlights) or low.

Reporting the marker is usually done on the radio.

[BaltACD]

Now a days trains communicate with each other on the radio the condition of the train and the status of the marker(s).

[John Urtz]

Beware of "hand signals" from railfans. We have one that lives near our line. On one occasion, he went trackside to wait for one of our northbound trains. As the train approached, excited to see the train, he waved his hands in the air frantically. Of course, there is a rule that engineers bring their trains to a stop if they see someone waving something frantically trackside. So the engineer dutifully brought the train to a stop, only to find out that he was just happy to see us.

This same individual has a set of air horns, and evidently has it hooked up to a compressor. If I am running with the windows open, I almost always hear him "reply" to my train as I blow for the crossing near his house. Neighbors must love him.....

[AgentKid]

henry6

Ironically in years past when there were real markers and real people there were such unreal hand signals. For instance, in the case of marker lamps, one might point to or pull on his ear(s) to indicate markers were out, or even cover the ears. . . Most of the signals were in the Books of Rules but others were less formal and different from road to road and place to place.

Thanks for that. Yet another example of when this forum is working well.

Just a few months ago, during one of our way more than usual snow days this winter, I got to thinking there had to have been a hand signal for a marker lamp not being on. It just seemed to me that back in the day, on the Canadian Prairie in the dead of winter, on a train going 50-60 MPH into a quartering headwind, there is no way oil fueled lanterns could stay lit all day long, all the time. There had to have been a hand signal for trackside personnel to let the train crew know about the problem, but I never knew what it was.

There wouldn't have been much call for that signal back on the Langdon Sub. mixeds.

Bruce

[wilmette2210]

Saw him yesterday and he claimed he has seen Amtrak workers make similer signals. He claimes to know all the hand signals, and that they are in the FRA rules. He likes to give the trains "roll by inspections" by using hand signals. How do you professional railroaders deal with railfans like this?

[Randy Stahl]

There are zero hand signals or any type of signal  in the CFR (FRA) except for blue signals.

The only hand signal from anyone but my crew that I would acknowledge would be a frantic motion from anyone, which means stop. No one but a member of the crew can give hand signals or any signals unless it is a signal to stop. 

 

I would tend to ignore signals from this person.

Again , you got a load of smoke blown up your ***

[Deggesty]

I wonder: what authority does this railfan have to give a highball signal? To whom does he give a signal when doing his roll-by inspections? No, I won't ask if he foams at the mouth.

[Randy Stahl]

Deggesty

I wonder: what authority does this railfan have to give a highball signal? To whom does he give a signal when doing his roll-by inspections? No, I won't ask if he foams at the mouth.

 

He has no authority unless he is rules qualified with the carrier ,any signal but a stop signal must be ignored.

 

If this man gave a "highball" to an engineer on a train that had a sliding wheel (or something) and the engineer accepted the signal, who would be in trouble when things went very wrong?

[wilmette2210]

None, he just thinks he's "helping" the train crew(s)

[Randy Stahl]

wilmette2210

None, he just thinks he's "helping" the train crew(s)

 

Unless he is trained (and certified by the carrier) to inspect trains he's not helping.

[wilmette2210]

Keep in mind that the crew already gave there, "highball" and the train was already departing the station when he was shouting, "highball." This guy just makes railfan's look like idiots.

[John Urtz]

wilmette2210

How do you professional railroaders deal with railfans like this?

We ignore them. As Randy has pointed out, engineers only take instructions on train movements from crew members, starting with the conductor. Sometimes the conductor will turn control of the movement over to a trainman/ brakeman, but there would first be a job briefing to make it clear who is controlling the move and the method of communication. As tree68 pointed out, there only a few basic hand signals in the NORAC rule book, and none of them has to do with lights or roll-bys. The wildly waving hands over the head is the only "signal" coming from a non crew member that would be reacted to.

[Anonymous]

If he gave the engineer a hand signal as the end of the train is passing him, I doubt the engineer even saw him. Especially with a "peace sign" hand signal. Railroaders are taught to make their hand signals large and recognizable at a distance, and the only comparable (non-standard) hand signal is three fingers raised for three step protection...and that's used by crew members standing at the end of the locomotive before going in between to lace up air hoses.

[tree68]

Randy Stahl

The only hand signal from anyone but my crew that I would acknowledge would be a frantic motion from anyone, which means stop.

There was a story in Trains (or maybe "Classic Trains") some time back in which it was related that something was going awry and the man on the ground was giving a frantic "stop" signal, with both hands/arms swinging in the prescribe direction ("lower quadrant").

The engineer saw the signal and called across the cab to the rest of the head-end crew, "Hang on boys, he's trying to fly!"

I've heard of folks using fist pumps to indicate a car count, and some of ours will flash finger counts (ie, flash both hands four times for forty feet).  I figure that if the engineer can see me (this usually involves recoupling the locomotive to the consist after a runaround), he knows about where he is.  It's the last 10-15 feet that can be deceiving.

I was running once when we encountered a traffic cone on the end of a tie.  It probably got dropped/knocked from the overpass we were going under, and wasn't any of prescribed methods for warnings, but we stopped, then proceeded at restricted speed anyhow, just to be safe.

[henry6]

tree68

Randy Stahl

The only hand signal from anyone but my crew that I would acknowledge would be a frantic motion from anyone, which means stop.

There was a story in Trains (or maybe "Classic Trains") some time back in which it was related that something was going awry and the man on the ground was giving a frantic "stop" signal, with both hands/arms swinging in the prescribe direction ("lower quadrant").

The engineer saw the signal and called across the cab to the rest of the head-end crew, "Hang on boys, he's trying to fly!"

I've heard of folks using fist pumps to indicate a car count, and some of ours will flash finger counts (ie, flash both hands four times for forty feet).  I figure that if the engineer can see me (this usually involves recoupling the locomotive to the consist after a runaround), he knows about where he is.  It's the last 10-15 feet that can be deceiving.

I was running once when we encountered a traffic cone on the end of a tie.  It probably got dropped/knocked from the overpass we were going under, and wasn't any of prescribed methods for warnings, but we stopped, then proceeded at restricted speed anyhow, just to be safe.

When in doubt, the safest course should always be chosen.

[Anonymous]

tree68

I was running once when we encountered a traffic cone on the end of a tie.  It probably got dropped/knocked from the overpass we were going under, and wasn't any of prescribed methods for warnings, but we stopped, then proceeded at restricted speed anyhow, just to be safe.

The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority in Boston uses traffic cones on its subway and light rail lines for roadway worker protection, along with human flaggers and portable trip stops.