Bakken Shale Oil - Unusually High "Reid Vapor Pressure" of 8 - 12 psi - Article in WSJ of Mon. 24 Feb. 2014

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Although this might not - or might - be generally available on-line to non-subscribers (try: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304834704579401353579548592 ), here's a summary of the pertinent points:

"Bakken Shale Oil Carries High Combustion Risk -  Analysis Of Crude From North Dakota Raises Further Questions About Rail Transportation" by Russell Gold (with Laura Stevens and Tom McGinty) of the Wall Street Journal, datelined Feb. 23, 2014 7:10 PM ET, as a "Business" article in the on-line version.  The article appeared on Pages B-1 and B-2 - "Marketplace" section - of my local print edition of Monday, Feb. 24, 2014.   

An analysis by the WSJ of data from Capline Pipeline (operated by Marathon Petroleum) discloses that the "average Reid Vapor Pressure is a common measurement of how quickly a liquid fuel evaporates and emits gases" for "North Dakota Sweet" is 8.56 psi to as high as 9.7 psi; Texas Eagle Ford Shale is also above 8 psi.  Tesoro Corp., a U.S. West Coast refiner, said it has regularly received oil from North Dakota with readings up to 12 psi.  The article says (or strongly implies) that this important data has been hard to come by in the public domain, even though sought by regulators and officials.   

According to the article, other crudes commonly run in U.S. refineries are 6.17 psi for Brent, and 3.33 for Louisiana Light Sweet.  The list and graphic has a total of 10, most of which are from around the world (and which I'd never heard of before).   

Also according to the article, a higher vapor pressure means it is more likely to throw off combustible gases.  The Bakken crude's vapor pressure is far higher and several times higher than that of crude from many other locations.    

Also: Bakken crude tends to be very light, a mixture of oil, ethane, propane, and other gaseous liquids, unlike conventional oil which can look like black syrup.  "You can put it in your gas tank and run it" said Jason Nick, a product manager at testing-instruments company Ametek Inc.  "It smells like gasoline." 

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I have no deep knowledge of this subject, or the accuracy of most of these statements, and so will defer to those who do.  For example, doesn't the "ignition point" (or a similar temperature-based quality characteristic) also bear on this ?  Certainly finding or purchasing a copy of the entire article is recommended for all the details.  

- Paul North. 

[ericsp]

Sounds like it is almost natural gasoline/natural gas condensate.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I would venture that not too much is available on the properties of Bakken crude because it hasn't been on the market for a very long time.  It also sounds like it's the opposite of Venezuelan crude, which is quite heavy and contains more low-end stuff.

[MidlandMike]

ericsp

Sounds like it is almost natural gasoline/natural gas condensate.

The most common way to generally grade crude oil is measured by API gravity (an inverse relation to density).  The literature I've seen on Bakken crude is in the 36 to 45 range, which is typical for light crudes.  Condensates I have dealt with are in the 60 to 70 range.  Apparently API gravity isn't the whole story.  Like what what Paul describes of the WSJ story, I have also noticed that it is hard to find specifics on Bakken sample analysis.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

ericsp

Sounds like it is almost natural gasoline/natural gas condensate.

 Are those the same as / similar to "casinghead gas", or "Natural Gas Liquids", etc. ?

The 'ignition point" term I was thinking of before (at 2:20 AM this morning . . . ) was "flash point".  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point 

Any thoughts or comments ?

- Paul North. 

[erikem]

One thought, a low flash point does not necessarily mean a low ignition point. Methane has a flash point in the cryogenic range (i.e. colder than any spot on earth) but has an ignition point above 1,000F. Longer chain hydrocarbons have a higher flash point than methane but a lower ignition point.

Another indicator of ignition point would be the octane number (technically performance number for numbers>100). Propane has a performance number of 105 to 115 or so, methane is at least 130. My guess is that Bakken crude would have a very low octane number.

- Erik

[ericsp]

Paul_D_North_Jr

ericsp

Sounds like it is almost natural gasoline/natural gas condensate.

 Are those the same as / similar to "casinghead gas", or "Natural Gas Liquids", etc. ?

The 'ignition point" term I was thinking of before (at 2:20 AM this morning . . . ) was "flash point".  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point 

Any thoughts or comments ?

- Paul North. 

Natural gasoline is a natural gas liquid. NGLs also includes propane and butane (and the negligible quantities of whatever unsaturated versions may be in the natural gas).

[tacohell]

This report was put out by a pipeline company who will say anything to get railroads lunch and dinner

[daveklepper]

I was thinking of drawing on long ago learned knowledge to define the difference between flash point and ignition point, but I think it better that one of the petroleum experts bring precision to the task.  Anyone volunteer?

[henry6]

Its about time the government got into this and make rules.  The oil and gas companies have run rough shod over laws, rules, and common sense safety in the arrogant name of profits believing their product and business was omnipotent.  Ask any body with fracked over land, stolen property, or craters where business and home used to be.  

[daveklepper]

And they have been able to do so because their product is essential to much of civilized life.   And when we add to their costs to produce their product, everyone, not just them, will have to pay the bill.

[Norm48327]

henry6

Its about time the government got into this and make rules.  The oil and gas companies have run rough shod over laws, rules, and common sense safety in the arrogant name of profits believing their product and business was omnipotent.  Ask any body with fracked over land, stolen property, or craters where business and home used to be.  

Taking sides Henry?

[schlimm]

daveklepper

And they have been able to do so because their product is essential to much of civilized life.

That product is also responsible for drastically changing much of what we have been privileged to call civilized life within the next 10-20 years.   

[henry6]

No.. Forced to a side in self defense.   

[tacohell]

From what I have been told in youngstown oh you can get more products like plastics from shale oil and gas

[henry6]

More lies, more promises, more broken promises, damaged roads, contaminated water, air pollution, more lies, loss of water from the aqua firma, contaminated soil, diseased animals, corrupted politicians, lies and more lies, increased earthquake activities, lies, broken contracts, greed gurgling all over the place, and more lies.  That's what you get with fracking.

[PNWRMNM]

Henry,

This is a railroad forum. If you want to rail against fracking do it somewhere else and spare us.

Mac

[Overmod]

"Candy-coated contracts, promise, and some lies, that's what you get with Fracking-jack"

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of actual railroad matters.

[dakotafred]

schlimm

daveklepper

And they have been able to do so because their product is essential to much of civilized life.

That product is also responsible for drastically changing much of what we have been privileged to call civilized life within the next 10-20 years.   

 

Permanent warming, vs. temporary warming that's part of a larger cycle, or due to increased solar activity, remains an open question. Man's contribution to whatever we're experiencing is more questionable yet. (About 3 percent of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is of our manufacture.)

 

What's undeniable is the contribution petrochemicals have made in the past 40 years to lifting hundreds of millions of Third Worlders from the most abject poverty and the threat of starvation -- into civilized life, if you like.

[henry6]

Yeah, I know.  But someone asked me if I were taking sides and I offered my explanation as to why.   I will leave it at that if you will.

[schlimm]

dakotafred

Permanent warming, vs. temporary warming that's part of a larger cycle, or due to increased solar activity, remains an open question. Man's contribution to whatever we're experiencing is more questionable yet. (About 3 percent of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is of our manufacture.)

97% of climate science research concurs that the warming is real, it is reaching a critical level soon of carbon concentration, and that it [the elevated level] is largely man-caused.   Science, not some oil-industry propaganda.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

tacohell

This report was put out by a pipeline company who will say anything to get railroads lunch and dinner

Good point - that the source of the WSJ's data in my Original Post is Marathon's Capline Pipeline, and that the pipeline companies have a financial incentive/ motivation to disparage the money-making rail moves of oil so as to divert it to the pipelines instead.  Therefore, it's understandable to want confirmation of the validity/ reliability/ accuracy/ integrity, etc. of that data.  However, Capline or Marathon said that it just tests the oil to make sure its customers are getting what they pay for.  Also, it was Tesoro Corp. - a refiner, not a pipeline, and hence not subject to that particular influence - which said that the Bakken crude had the 12 psi vapor pressure.  

Next, as you may have heard or seen, yesterday - Feb. 25th - the U.S.DOT ordered rail shippers of Bakken crude to have it tested so that it is properly labeled and in the proper tank cars.  See, for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/26/business/us-orders-tests-on-oil-shipments.html 

This article from WSJ's MarketWatch says much the same, but also seems to imply that the USDOT's emergency order was the result of the petroleum industry's failure to hand over the data within the agreed-upon 30-day time window - see: 

 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/emergency-testing-ordered-for-crude-oil-trains-2014-02-25    

Stay tuned for further developments . . .

- Paul North. 

[MidlandMike]

Paul_D_North_Jr

ericsp

Sounds like it is almost natural gasoline/natural gas condensate.

 

Are those the same as / similar to "casinghead gas", or "Natural Gas Liquids", etc. ?

...

Condensate is the liquid hydrocarbon that condenses out of the hydrocarbon that was in a gaseous state at the temperature and pressure of the underground gas reservoir, but separates out as liquid at surface temperature and pressure.

Casinghead gas is gas produced from between the tubing and the casing of the well.  Normally the well is produced up thru the tubing, and the gas from the casinghead is incedental, and is often used to fuel the pumpjack and treaters.

Natural Gas Liquids is a term that somewhat depends on the context, but often refers to liquids produced after gas processing.

[lenzfamily]

MidlandMike

Condensate is the liquid hydrocarbon that condenses out of the hydrocarbon that was in a gaseous state at the temperature and pressure of the underground gas reservoir, but separates out as liquid at surface temperature and pressure.

Casinghead gas is gas produced from between the tubing and the casing of the well.  Normally the well is produced up thru the tubing, and the gas from the casinghead is incedental, and is often used to fuel the pumpjack and treaters.

Natural Gas Liquids is a term that somewhat depends on the context, but often refers to liquids produced after gas processing.

Mike

I'm finding this discussion really interesting. Can you recommend any online general technical references re: characteristics of Natural Gas. I'm a retired Power Engineer, Third Class, among other things, whose firing experience was all oil as I lived and worked in Yukon Territory, Canada, at the time. 

Any help you can offer to help an 'old head' understand the characteristic's of Bakken Crude, never mind all the other types of crude you've referred to, would be really really appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Charlie

Chilliwack, BC

[Overmod]

For some background reference (that you can 'start in' with before there are responses here), one place to start might be the technical online 'trade' sites.  I'd recommend starting with digitalrefining.com or a site like it. 

For the liquid fuels (and conversion of gas to liquid) here is a link to browse a handbook of petroleum refining processes..  Somewhat ancient but covers the basics.

You might find this .pdf of a PowerPoint presentation from the Colorado School of Mines interesting.  (If a bit cryptic as so many PowerPoints without their lecture text often are!)

[henry6]

The problem we who have been dealing with the process of hydrofracking or fracking is that the "professionals" from the oil and gas companies have not been forthcoming with truth and facts.  Independent scientists, geologists, etc., have come forth with information which, should I say, conflicts with the oil and gas companies.  And of course it is contradicted by the companies through politicians and paid advertising.  This whole fracking process from acquisition of land and gas leases to the reneging on contracts and promises, to the fact that only the big companies get rich and leave a mess in their path. I can no longer in all honesty believe a word printed, broadcast,  or otherwise uttered by the oil and gas industry.  They may be right sometime, but they lost me by their actions.

[MidlandMike]

lenzfamily

Mike

I'm finding this discussion really interesting. Can you recommend any online general technical references re: characteristics of Natural Gas. I'm a retired Power Engineer, Third Class, among other things, whose firing experience was all oil as I lived and worked in Yukon Territory, Canada, at the time. 

Any help you can offer to help an 'old head' understand the characteristic's of Bakken Crude, never mind all the other types of crude you've referred to, would be really really appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Charlie

Chilliwack, BC

Charlie, I'm a retired geologist who spent most of my career in the oil fields of Michigan.  I guess I am old school, and my references are mostly on my bookshelves.  I have read some internet articles and studies on the Bakken, but so far nothing to pin down detailed specifics on crude analysis.

[narig01]

Midland Mike
Charlie, I'm a retired geologist who spent most of my career in the oil fields of Michigan. I guess I am old school, and my references are mostly on my bookshelves. I have read some internet articles and studies on the Bakken, but so far nothing to pin down detailed specifics on crude analysis.

When I saw the video from the Lac-Megantic wreck and read that it was crude oil I was kind of shocked. Ive seen truckloads of flammables do things like what happened in Quebec but only refined product. My understanding of crude is it was more like diesel fuel only a little less volatile. I've seen diesel fuel burn but was under the impression it wouldn't burn explosively without a lot of other factors.
Then to read that the crude from the bakken field needed a very high degree of containment above what crude normally required.

Comments please.

Thanks IGN

[Overmod]

Even back in medieval times, there was a known difference between 'black naft' and 'white naft', and that there were forms of the black with more, and different, volatile content than others.  (See 'Median oil' as a constituent of Greek fire if you want to have some fun -- many forms of naft acting quite happily as the "FO" when mixed with ammonium nitrate, for instance...  :-O)

The 'popular' conception of crude oil, by people who may never have seen anything but media stereotypes of it, is probably the black, sticky stuff shown on TV broadcasts during spills in Alaska, Kuwait, or the Gulf  -- or perhaps a somewhat, well, cruder version of used motor oil.  But here is a listing that links to many of the types 'out there', and here is a table of some of the tests used on the different types. 

(Part of the likely 'image' problem is that most of the information regarding crude composition has involved what refiners want to get OUT of the crude when processing it -- not the characteristics or appearance it may have when first won.  This is CERTAINLY changing now that Bakken crude can be touted by all the chicken-little ambulance-chasing Roone-Arledgian media as violently explosive, but I doubt that more precise understanding about crude oil compositions will result from that!  ;-} )

I think a large part of the problem is that the general public thinks of the 'black gold -- Texas tea' they saw Jed Clampett get when 'shootin' at some food', and don't realize some versions of 'rock oil' are quite different.  I do not expect this to change very greatly... but I suspect it's largely going to be influenced, pro and con, by people who 'stand where they sit' regarding the transport and use of the feedstock.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Thanks for that data, Overmod.  For me, the following quote from my Original Post in this thread was pretty descriptive (though less technical):

Also: Bakken crude tends to be very light, a mixture of oil, ethane, propane, and other gaseous liquids, unlike conventional oil which can look like black syrup.  "You can put it in your gas tank and run it" said Jason Nick, a product manager at testing-instruments company Ametek Inc.  "It smells like gasoline." 

- Paul North.