Overmod Norm48327 "incentive to find routes that involve the least public exposure," I believe Lac Megantic was a small exposure as compared to a larger city. Didn't work out well. No it didn't. But how much worse would it have been if it had been a city instead of a relatively small town? "Least public exposure" does not mean that people may be killed or terribly injured, perhaps in large numbers, when an accident occurs. It does mean, though, that the smallest number of deaths and injuries will result. Are you arguing that that is somehow a bad thing, or mistaken thinking?
Norm48327 "incentive to find routes that involve the least public exposure," I believe Lac Megantic was a small exposure as compared to a larger city. Didn't work out well.
"incentive to find routes that involve the least public exposure,"
I believe Lac Megantic was a small exposure as compared to a larger city. Didn't work out well.
No it didn't. But how much worse would it have been if it had been a city instead of a relatively small town?
"Least public exposure" does not mean that people may be killed or terribly injured, perhaps in large numbers, when an accident occurs. It does mean, though, that the smallest number of deaths and injuries will result. Are you arguing that that is somehow a bad thing, or mistaken thinking?
WASHINGTON — Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, addressing the nation’s mayors, today proposed a national hazardous-freight fee be assessed on rail cars carrying dangerous substances.......
Emanuel said the fee would go to three areas: to invest in rail safety, to fund the costs borne by first responders and to pay for a reinsurance policy that would help communities hit by rail disasters get back on their feet.
“If something, God forbid, happened in one of our cities,” police and fire would be there immediately and FEMA would arrive many hours later, he said.
Emanuel said his proposal was supported by the mayors of Peoria, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Kansas City and Madison, Wis.........
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-emanuel-calls-for-fee-on-rail-cars-carrying-dangerous-materials-20140123,0,4505210.story
If you want to slam Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago, politically inept is inappropriate.
Mayor Rahm knows a city tax on haz mat would not hold up in the courts. A federal tax wil hold up.
Mayor Rahm wants to transfer part of the proceeds to local responders. In short, the federal tax will go to cities. Not that cities will necessarily increase public safety budget with haz mat tax dollars. Haz mat tax dollars may well replace local taxes currently funding public safety.
Those local taxes no longer funding public safety may well shift to pet projects. Pet projects to fund non essential items that will enhance re-election of local incumbent office holders.
Mayor Rahm knows he alone can not get the tax. Mayor Rahm needs allies. Look at all the local Mayors signing on to make a coalition to pressure congress. Already, it is even playing in Peoria.
In the words of legendary Illionis Sec. of State Paul Powell, "I can smell the meat a-cookin'."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-02-24/news/ct-per-flash-paul-powell-0224-20130224_1_shoe-box-clothes-closet-hotel-room
Railroads, truck lines and the rest of the transportation industry need to kill Mayor Rahm's plan. It will not end with the railroads. It will not end with taxation. If Rahm gets his tax, it will give impetus to others who would regulate and otherwise meddle with the transportation industry.
The industry and existing regulatory bodies should address this issue, The Mayors of cash strapped cities seeking new taxes so they may avoid making hard choices on allocation of resources must not.
schlimm And he throws out an unpalatable proposal (the tax/fee) to get his real objective, namely route the cars on one of several bypasses around, not through Chicago. The rest of the routing is not his concern.
And he throws out an unpalatable proposal (the tax/fee) to get his real objective, namely route the cars on one of several bypasses around, not through Chicago. The rest of the routing is not his concern.
Whatever. Rahm sees one thing here, dollar signs, to keep his city out of bankruptcy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/chicago-budget-shortfall_n_3685147.html
"The city, which faced budget shortfalls topping $600 million in fiscal 2011 and 2012, projects a budget gap of $338.7 million for fiscal 2014, down from $369 million this year. But that gap is projected to widen to nearly $995 million in fiscal 2015 and $1.15 billion in fiscal 2016."
Of course, he could have other motives, to scare the people in his city that oil trains are more dangerous than living in the murder capital of the US.....If he was truly worried about the safety of the people of Chicago, getting rid of THAT title should be a little bit more important than taxing oil trains.
An "expensive model collector"
schlimm And where does most of the Bakken crude go? Houston area?
And where does most of the Bakken crude go? Houston area?
I believe the east and west coast refineries is the correct answer.
Norm
Everywhere East - to revise the CB&Q motto
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Gee, wake up and smell the coffee! Rahm is a tough cookie, not someone to mess with. he's looking out for his city, so he's grandstanding, of course. And he throws out an unpalatable proposal (the tax/fee) to get his real objective, namely route the cars on one of several bypasses around, not through Chicago. The rest of the routing is not his concern. heck, Dave Klepper's proposal was also to try to bypass our largest metro areas.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Show me a politician that leaves office poorer than he entered it and I will have seen a HONEST politician.
To date I haven't seen one.
SALfanI'd like to impose a "stupidity tax" on politicians, to be paid out of their personal funds, whenever they spout off some grandiose, too-costly, uworkable, unconnstitutional or just stupid idea in response to the hysteria of the moment. Better yet, make the tax payable in hours of useful (but very unpleasant) work like cleaning ou the sewage plant, tearing down abandoned houses, cleaning out plugged storm sewers, or something similar.
All politicians seem to be some shade of Populist...it is a fever indicating a propensity of a feeling of self importance, a swelling ego, a fear of being either not winning the election or fear of being put out of office by vote or impeachment, blind ambition, feeling of loss or lack of self esteem, the need to be loved, the need to be reelected 'til death lest they get found out. Keep the cigar smoke blowing and the champagne flowing and the people unknowing the truth.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
This puts the onus of safety of the transport of Bakken crude on the railroads and not the energy industry which supplies the cars and lies to the public and the railroads about the contents and fails to inform fire deaprtments and other emergency services. Gotta hit the oil and gas companies in order to get order and safety. Of course, there is a good argument that politicians are on oil and gas company payrolls so it just might be useless to be against the per car charge through Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, Detroit, Erie, Buffalo, PIttsburgh...will somebody hand me an Official Guide and map.....Rochester, Toronto, Montreal, Syracuse, Harrisburg, Baltimore, Albany, ...or should we just do it by state or other larger taxing jurisdictions?
Note that Chicago's Create program is partially funded by all USA taxpayers and is serving to reduce risks by shorter times and less switching for oil tankcars moving through the Chicago area.
I'm actually all in favor of a per-car charge to go through cities or other critical areas. It's just that the charge should be made to Key transportation, or to some insurance consortium that provides critical coverage, not to nitwit municipalities run by proven weasels and political hacks.
(There, I got it out of my system...)
This in fact would be one reasonable way to apportion potential risk among suppliers and transporters, and provide in doing so a ... well, let me say 'not unreasonable' ... incentive to find routes that involve the least public exposure, or the least use of the often-deteriorated track in major cities. The question is how to establish a fair and (relatively) incorruptible mechanism to assess the fees and bank the proceeds to apply as insurance coverage or premiums.
PNWRMNM What he is proposing is an unconstitutional tax on Interstate Commerce. No reason for Chicago not to pursue it though. Mac McCulloch
What he is proposing is an unconstitutional tax on Interstate Commerce. No reason for Chicago not to pursue it though.
Mac McCulloch
Not sure it is unconstitutional but it is against current laws and it cannot be done by Chicago. Railroads would challenge it under freedom of commerce and would win.
mudchicken Randy Stahl I'm so pleased that there are so many well educated people making these decisions, I feel so much better knowing that they spent years in school and got a degree in something... Certain schools ought to be putting out recall notices. The tool they sent their lousy graduates into the world with has some reality defects. As usual, common sense is also missing.
Randy Stahl I'm so pleased that there are so many well educated people making these decisions, I feel so much better knowing that they spent years in school and got a degree in something...
I'm so pleased that there are so many well educated people making these decisions, I feel so much better knowing that they spent years in school and got a degree in something...
Well, as my grandmother used to say:
"You can send a donkey to college, but when he comes out four years later, he's still a donkey!"
"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."
http://www.searchquotes.com/quotes/author/Rahm_Emanuel/2/
Randy Stahl And the oil companies and railways will respond in kind raising the price per gallon of gas to cover the fee's. In the end it won't be the rail companies or the oil companies paying the fee's . I'm so pleased that there are so many well educated people making these decisions, I feel so much better knowing that they spent years in school and got a degree in something...
And the oil companies and railways will respond in kind raising the price per gallon of gas to cover the fee's. In the end it won't be the rail companies or the oil companies paying the fee's .
Well sure, the cost of the fee will be passed through, so the railroads won’t have to pay it. And the money will be wasted on making government bigger instead of what it is intended for.
However, if you raise the consumer price of oil products too high due to fees and regulations, consumers will stop buying domestic oil and substitute foreign oil.
And if that happens, the railroads won’t have any oil to haul. I guarantee you that Rahm Emanuel would like that just fine. He wins either way.
caldreamer He can propose it, but the railroads do NOT have to pay it. As stted above that is interstate commerce , not subject to local taxes. Wht the railroads can do is oil producers and increase can do is increase the price of all oil products in Chicago to teach Emanual a lesson. The people of Chicago would hang Emaual up byu his thumbs just before he is tarred, feathered him and ran him out of town on rail.
He can propose it, but the railroads do NOT have to pay it. As stted above that is interstate commerce , not subject to local taxes. Wht the railroads can do is oil producers and increase can do is increase the price of all oil products in Chicago to teach Emanual a lesson. The people of Chicago would hang Emaual up byu his thumbs just before he is tarred, feathered him and ran him out of town on rail.
My most recent pass through the Chicago area (September) indicated that gas prices were already 30-40 cents higher than adjoining states.
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