Where only end cab switchers and 40' boxcars dared to tread!
Meanwhile, back in zugmann's territory, then there was the March 1976 (or maybe 1977) day when an all-black Penn Central (soon to be ConRail) GP38 got trapped behind a minor derailment of its train at the Middletown East End Warehouse. The Trainmaster wanted it out ASAP, so they kept on going ahead, around a 38 (+/-) degree curve (150 +/- ft. radius)* to where they could get out on another track. I'm convinced that only because they were creeping and it was a cold, wet, windy and rainy day to slicken up the steel some kept it up on top of the rails.
*I know, that's almost sharper than they're supposed to be able to negotiate, but it was a 'light' engine (no cars coupled to it, so coupler swing didn't restrict it), and the track did shift a little bit under the trucks. These data sheets indicate that the maximum curvature for the GP38 is 39 degrees (147 ft. radius): http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20GP38.HTML and 42 degrees (136 ft. radius) for the GP38-2: http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20GP38-2.HTML
Afterwards, the TM, my boss (ex-PRR) and I measured that curve in a couple places by "string-lining" it just to find out, which is why I remember it, and am that confident in the actual numerical values. As best as I can recall, that curve is the one at these Lat./ Long. coords.: N 40 11.592' W 76 43.270' Amazingly, there's more than 1 that could have been where this happened - look about 50 yds. northwest and 100 yards southeast for what appear to be even sharper curves ! -PDN
zugmann I knew a TM that would pull a move like that (now retired). Old reading man... I did get your message, Paul. Been a bit hectic last few days. I'll contact you tomorrow if I remember.
I did get your message, Paul. Been a bit hectic last few days. I'll contact you tomorrow if I remember.
As it happens, history has kind of repeated itself recently: Last month M&H leased NS GP38-2 #5046 to move a transformer for a local power company over an isolated section of its line - see: http://www.mhrailroad.com/blog/ (but the one in my incident was definitely a low-nose version).
I understand fully. Between the snowfall last Thursday in the middle of my 3-day paving seminar out your way, then a dead car battery (why ? it's only 4 months old !), Monday being a government holiday, a couple precipitation events the past 2 days, and some other crazy, I'm sometimes not sure what day/ date it is.
mudchicken: Yeah, that's about right. Since then I believe it's been served by the M&H (not CR or NS), using either GE 44-tonner types, or an ALCo S-6 or T-6. See: http://www.mhrailroad.com/about/
- Paul North.
Pat and I volunteered at the Peck Homestead Museum today, helping handle tours of students and telling them about Sheldon Peck, the farmer/portrait artist/abolitionist who happened to be the first settler of what eventually became Lombard. Pat was one of the actual guides; I was the scheduler, keeping the three groups moving through in the allotted time and helping keep them out of each other's way. Our end of this trip works very smoothly, thank you!One reason that I don't guide the tours is that it would interfere with my train-watching. I can perform my very important job with an eye out the window for the next trolley-load of kids and the trains that go by on the Union Pacific main line just across the street. And today (at least the first part of the day) we were pretty busy. Here's what went past:0922: Westbound scoot, eight coaches.0930: Westbound manifest, two locomotive units (mostly empty sand covered hoppers for Troy Grove).0933: Eastbound stack train, three units.0943: Westbound stack train, two units.1005: Eastbound scoot, five coaches.1007: Empty ethanol tanks westbound, three units (second and third units were Norfolk Southern).1018: Westbound WEPX coal empties; two units on the point and a distributed power unit on the hind end.1027: Eastbound stack train, four units.1031: Westbound coal empties, NRG. Lovely mixture of cars. Two units, no DPU. I call this the "rainbow train", because it has a wide variety of rotary-coupler-end colors: red, scarlet, orange, yellow, dark green, royal blue, and brown (and about that many reporting marks, too!).1044: Eastbound manifest, three units. Lots of dried distiller grain cars.1111: Eastbound scoot, eight coaches. Same stuff as 0922 westbound.1119: Westbound scoot, five coaches.1130: Eastbound stack train; three units, including two brand-new SD70ACEs, UP 8844 and 8845. (Or are they SD70AHs now?)1141: Westbound manifest, two units.1202: Eastbound stack train, five units.1218: Westbound scoot, four coaches.1238: Westbound auto racks, three units.1308: Eastbound scoot, five coaches. Same stuff as 1119 westbound.1317: Westbound scoot, seven coaches.1335: Eastbound manifest.1405: Eastbound scoot, four coaches. Same stuff as 1218 westbound.1422: Westbound scoot, eight coaches.That's 22 trains in five hours: nine of them were Metra scoots, none worse than about six minutes late. I'll be busy with the sightings of interesting freight cars, including one new (at least new to me) reporting mark.And I get to do this all again tomorrow!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I know that a railroader's perspective is a little different than a railfan's, but I find it odd that things that get my attention do not show up in the press or on these forums. Within the past week:
(1) The railroad industry lodges a complaint over the reach of the Southern California AQMD and EPA over locomotive exhaust at idle. (EPA vs the railroad's federal exemption) Sets a formal hearing and docket with the STB. FD-35803 .... Besides SCAQMD being an arrogant/annoying/unthinking bunch, just what set this off?
(2) Within 24 hours of the reopening of Denver Union Station, BNSF dumps a freight motor on the ground in the new trackwork.
I'd be curious to know more about both.
mudchicken I know that a railroader's perspective is a little different than a railfan's, but I find it odd that things that get my attention do not show up in the press or on these forums. Within the past week: (1) The railroad industry lodges a complaint over the reach of the Southern California AQMD and EPA over locomotive exhaust at idle. (EPA vs the railroad's federal exemption) Sets a formal hearing and docket with the STB. FD-35803 .... Besides SCAQMD being an arrogant/annoying/unthinking bunch, just what set this off? (2) Within 24 hours of the reopening of Denver Union Station, BNSF dumps a freight motor on the ground in the new trackwork. I'd be curious to know more about both.
2nd one - I would love to know more, but I am sure they filed that one under business as usual. Job security for a lot of people in the clean up departments.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Picture of the derailed unit (light engine move) over on Trainorders.com. Probably related to the switch in some way. Sometimes new switches do that...right?Sort of like a ceremonial ribbon-cutting, christening the ballast.
(New switch points and sharp/worn wheel flanges = potential climber)
A fresh invitation to visit Tolleston has been announced (to do battle with another of CR's monsters that came out of the closet)....Heads-up Carl.
Head is up...I'll take off the hat when your plane is on the approach!
We had a fun day today. Went about 6 miles in just under 10 hours, from one side of Fremont to the other. OK, it only took about an hour and a half travel time, including setting out the DP, but it took about 8 hours before an air issue was resolved and it was decided the DP unit had problems that couldn't be fixed in the field.
We were instructed to tie down behind one already tied down manifest and another manifest pulled up behind us and also tied down. We were told they were going to find another engine to use as a DP later on, probably long after we died on the law. Instead, we were cabbed home.
Jeff
They had to re-figure some of the jobs where I work. Don't know where that will leave me when the dust settles (that's if this thing is permanent and not temporary). I was hoping I could hold my current gig until engineer school came up. But I guess that may not happen.
Some days I think I need a new line of work. This crap gets old. Frustrating.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
jeffhergert [snipped - PDN.] . . . We were instructed to tie down behind one already tied down manifest and another manifest pulled up behind us and also tied down. . . .
Paul_D_North_Jr jeffhergert [snipped - PDN.] . . . We were instructed to tie down behind one already tied down manifest and another manifest pulled up behind us and also tied down. . . . So, somebody tell me - how did all these railroaders decide/ determine that enough handbrakes were applied and 'hard' enough to safely 'tie down' all 3 trains ? Inquiring minds want to know ! - Paul North.
Well, for the b/o DP unit, the conductor, with assistance from the foreman general (a mechanical utility employee), tied down the unit using the single car set out procedure. Tying the hand brake and giving a little push to ensure the brakes are working. I know this test has been ruled unreliable by some, but last night (3 days later) that engine is still where we left it.
I can't say for the other two trains, but the conductor started tying hand brakes. I believe he used the 10% rule as he was further back than the absolute 5 car minimum called for. Once clear, I released both the automatic and independent brakes to see if it moved. It didn't. Afterwards, the two lead engines were tied down and isolated. I tried the locks on the cab doors, but couldn't get either one to work. (If we had been a key train, not being able to lock the doors would have required me to take the reverser with me.)
I guess this method isn't reliable either because the next day all 3 were gone! (I saw on the crew website that they found a new DP about 6 or 7 hours later and ran the train that night.) Actually where we, and all the other trains, tied down is probably the best possible spot to do so. It's about as level as it gets anywhere.
I hope they're all headed my way, Jeff! I'm going to be ready for some action later today, with the temperature nearing 50.The hand-brake rule doesn't seem too onerous for a two-man crew to handle.
wump-wump-wham!
"thought it pulled a little hard"
zugmann "thought it pulled a little hard"
Or what we get sometimes - "I can smell brakes..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Or what we get sometimes - "I can smell brakes..."
Hopefully you smell them at the beginning of the shift, and not the end.
Not that I ever left a handbrake on an engine for the whole night..of course not...never...
When I was in that position I would keep knocking 'em off until I didn't see any more applied. Heaven help me if somebody decided to skip a car or two while applying them. (Of course, when I was no longer a ground pounder, the rules for minimum number of brakes came out, so too few would have been a little suspicious...)_____________________
Thrilling moments from today for train-watchers who don't really know better (kind of neat otherwise):1. Waiting at Elmhurst to board a train eastbound for Oak Park. The signal to our east is red, so our train, caught by the Automatic Train Control, comes poking in at 20 m.p.h. or less. Before he gets there, I see the westbound scoot...on the same track! Two passenger-laden trains coming right at each other! Now what?2. At Oak Park: "The next westbound Metra train will arrive in your station in approximately eight minutes." People start lining up along the Track 3 platform as usual to board the train. Except for me. I walked down the ramp, under the tracks, and over to the Track 1 platform. I didn't have a pipe to play, but it wasn't long before everybody else followed me over to the other platform. What happened?
That's quite interesting, Carl. I would say that very few, if any at all, of your fellow passengers were able to read the signals and know what was going on. It is well that your fellow boarders at Oak Park following the piping of the announcement, for they probably ignored your silent lead.
Your account reminded me of two past events. When I was on my way into Ogden (to take an overnight bus to Boise) to marry Ricki, I enjoyed watching the signals from the dome; I did not know all of the aspects, but I could guess at some of them. And, as you and I came back to Chicago from Antioch last September, I enjoyed watching our progress. A third event--in June of '74, I made a roundtrip to Harvard, and stood at the front end on our way back in, talking with a trainman who was also standing there.
Two more, also on my trip last September. Backing into Denver and also into Salt Lake City (because of the detour across Wyoming, we had to back into the station), where we had both Amtrak conductors and the UP conductor at the rear; I made myself small.
Johnny
I think trains once had an account of a freight conductor in the days of the caboose who was challenged by a rules examiner on what signal aspect he expected to see. The engineer, of course, would expect/hope to see green/proceed.
The examiner was at first taken aback when the conductor answered "red." At least until he thought about it for a moment.
Backing in to Denver and Salt lake City, the conductors saw lots of red over green dwarf signals (diverging).
tree68 I think trains once had an account of a freight conductor in the days of the caboose who was challenged by a rules examiner on what signal aspect he expected to see. The engineer, of course, would expect/hope to see green/proceed. The examiner was at first taken aback when the conductor answered "red." At least until he thought about it for a moment.
When I was out in engineer's training at UP's Salt Lake City facility, the lead instructor told us about the time one of the conductors he had worked with went into engine service. He did bad on his first test on signal aspects. The instructor asked him about it, thinking he somehow got off between the questions in the booklet and the answer sheet. The former conductor said most of his career up to that point had been spent on cabooses, the only aspect he usually saw was red.
I was watching a program about a railroad accident on a Discovery/NatGeo etc type channel once. The people who produced/wrote the program must not realize how things work. They seemed to make a big deal that the conductor on the caboose didn't act as the caboose, at the end of a mile or so long freight train, kept going by all those red signals before the accident happened.
With the return of more moderate weather the size of some of the manifests are growing again. Last week one was 12000 feet. I'm glad I didn't have it. The mid train DP had a "catastrophic" communications loss. That's the message the engr received. Meaning comm isn't coming back. Then the lead engine had a mechanical failure. They stopped around Westside, IA about 7 or 8 am. The first relief crew brought out new power, two engines. One was going to be the new leader and the other was going to be switched onto the mid train DP. This using a facing point spur. When we went around them about 1 pm, the new power had just arrived, the dispatcher said he had already ordered the second relief crew.
I deadheaded with the original engr a few days later. He said he checked on it's progress and it finally left Westside about 8pm that night. It's trip on the east Iowa side wasn't much better. It has an "undesired emergency" (Which means the engr didn't initiate the emergency. Really, who desires to have to use emergency? I've never heard anyone say, "I hope I get to big hole them today.) near Beverly (Cedar Rapids). That was good for 90 minutes of delay. Then while going through the crossovers at Stanwood, they got a wrong end draw bar.
A couple of days later, another one got three knuckles east of North Platte. I don't know how long it was.
My conductor yesterday told me they have sometimes been detouring the Council Bluffs to Proviso train via North Platte. They run the cars west to incorporate into the train I've been talking about and then run it to Proviso. I don't see the big picture on this one. I know Proviso has been having trouble taking trains, but I doubt one huge train yards easier than two regular sized ones. It does make it harder to hold out of a yard because it doesn't fit anywhere. Maybe that's the logic here. I guess it makes sense to someone to run cars an extra 500+ miles out of the way. These trains handle car load traffic, maybe they are trying to run off the business. I sometimes think we're the best marketing tool the BNSF has.
I may have seen that train last week. It stretched forever, and had to stop for some reason (probably to line switches in Yard 9), and was strung out across six of the seven grade crossings in Elmhurst for a while. It had a pair of midtrain DPs, the first time I'd ever seen that.
(Thanks to where we parked, Pat was able to leave and go home after lunch; I went under the tracks at the station tunnel and walked along the train for blocks, gathering detailed information about the cars I was interested in until it began to move again--I was probably the least unhappy person in Elmhurst for several minutes!)
And, of course, you told the motorists who were stopped by the train that you were glad it was stopped.
Going back to block signals: do all of the block signals in Ireland wear green on St. Patrick's Day?
DeggestyGoing back to block signals: do all of the block signals in Ireland wear green on St. Patrick's Day?
I don't know about the block signals in Ireland, but I know that the traffic light at Tipperary Hill in Syracuse is "upside down." The city signal folks would square it away with the traditional red on top, but it would usually be turned over in short order by persons unknown. They finally gave up and left it with the green on top.
Johnny, they may wear it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're "lit".Larry, I remember as a kid going through a small town--and it was in New York--where the entire traffic light consisted of two bulbs for the entire four-way fixture. That meant that the lower light was green for one road and red for the other, and the upper light was the opposite. Instead of a yellow light, both lights would be lit when it was about to change.My dad took pictures of traffic signals in New York City in the mid-1950s without a yellow light, but they had been modernized to the degree that red was always on top (again, a change was denoted by the lighting of both lights). I remember being there in the early 1960s, and the pole-mounted lights had a small statue of someone (god or human) on top--at least some of them did.
I understand that there are (or have been) traffic lights in Boston with green on the top--so that orange will not be on top of the green. Even being a descendant of Orangemen, I would not deny the Irish their desire.
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